Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/B92 Top 100 Domestic Songs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep - I, the nominator, withdrew the nomination and I am closing the discussion per WP:SK. RockyMM (talk) 23:01, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

B92 Top 100 Domestic Songs[edit]

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Non notable, non verifiable RockyMM (talk) 11:45, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn by nominator - the discussion has produced evidence about list's verifiability and notability. Still, the article needs reworking. --RockyMM (talk) 22:47, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Against: The list is notable as one of the rare national radio polls for the best fan-selected songs released in the region during the existence of SFR Yugoslavia and after. The list also received a significant media coverage in Serbia and the entire region. Furthermore, musicians whose songs appear on the list have also commented on the list, including Darko Rundek who said he was glad that Haustor song "Šejn" was on the second place behind Ekatarina Velika "Samo par godina za nas", which even further legitimatized the list. Such lists attain articles on Wikipedia and are considered notable, as exemplified in the Category:Lists of rated songs, in which, for example a similar radio poll of 50 Canadian fan-selected songs, 50 Tracks: The Canadian Version, is assessed as high-importance article by the WikiProject Canada.--Milosppf (talk) 13:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Against: I agree with everything Milosppf had to say about the topic - the attention of the media and the artists, the existence of similar articles on Wikipedia - and would like to add that the poll was organized by Radio B92, one of the largest broadcasters in Serbia and former Yugoslav region. Ostalocutanje (talk) 14:09, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Serbia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:28, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:28, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:28, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment If there was media coverage, we need references (even if it's in Serbian or other languages of the region). --Colapeninsula (talk) 15:39, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment response: Here are two quotations taken from this source (http://dalje.com/hr-scena/ekv-prvi-haustor-drugi/12399)

"I am glad that "Šejn" is ranked so high on this list and I don't regret that it is not on the first place. Among all these songs there are quite a few excellent ones and I can't distinguish only one of them." Darko Rundek of Haustor

"This list is not an intersection of the masses' taste, but it reflects the taste of younger, more educated, communicative and open people. It is quite logical that most of these songs are from the 1980s not only because of the fame of that "golden age", but also because of the mere fact that the production had been greater and of better quality than in any other period." Toma Grujić, the editor of Radio B92

Here is a reaction by the former Ekatarina Velika drummer Ivan Fece "Firchie" from this source (http://www.b92.net/kultura/pop/intervju.php?yyyy=2007&mm=07&nav_id=255163):

"I think, as much as I remember, that Milan Mladenović has been present with the amount of six songs among the top ten, both with Šarlo and with EKV. I know that "Par godina za nas" has been the first, that the fifth or the sixth song was yet again EKV, if I am correct. Without a speck of pretentiousness, I am not at all surprised with that. It is like having three meals at one table, one is good, the other two are not good, which does not mean they are bad, but I don't want to be pathetic. I knew Milan quite well, we had been friends for years, since '78, he was quite a character up to the point that the fact itself conditioned the quality of things he had done in Šarlo as well as Katarina and EKV, and it's quite logical that it remained like that up to this day. There is another driblet here. You all know that Jimi Hendrix died, that many bands disappeared, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, and that still there is a veil of fame around that story. It wouldn't be fair not to mention that the entire original lineup of EKV is not among us, and that this specific fame contributes to that entire thing, which does not reduce the quality which he had left to us."

I will provide more if necessary.--Milosppf (talk) 17:39, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep ~~Delete~~: As for notability, it has waned. These sources you've provided are from 2006 and 2007. Still, much bigger problem is that this list cannot be verified. Where and how the correctness of this list could be verified? --RockyMM (talk) 10:06, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, B92 cannot be used as source per WP:Notability - If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject --RockyMM (talk) 10:17, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Response: Notability cannot "wane", as you suggest, because it reflects a music preference of a part of the population in a particular historical period, and as such is notable to be documented on Wikipedia. Furthermore, we live in the Information Age in which information which is currently in the eye of the public is quickly replaced with that which will come after it. Hence, the date of these articles is 2006-2007 when the list was officially published and when it provoked certain (significant) responses. People still debate about this list and other similar lists on music fan forums which, however, cannot be regarded as reliable sources, but nevertheless the topic is still thought-provoking.

Concerning the usage of B92, the list was created by Radio B92 and the interview with was conducted on the B92 website which is at least semi-independent of the radio show that organized the poll, plus a year after the list has been published, when Firchie was promoting his EKV Revisited project, Therefore, we are not talking about a media spectacle, in which famous musicians speak in favor of the list, so as to make it popular or significant, because it was only a question among a dozen others in that particular interview.

As I said, if it is required by someone else other than you, I will provide more references, but so far I think there is no need as you are nevertheless outvoted. I would, however, like to hear a fourth and a fifth opinion on the subject.--Milosppf (talk) 12:11, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why someone else other than me? Do you think I have prejudices? --RockyMM (talk) 16:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Response Here is a complete list on websites unrelated to B92: 1, 2. A large number of websites features only a part of the list (first 10, 20, 30, 50), but it proves that the interest of the media was large. Ostalocutanje (talk) 15:20, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK, you've established both notability and verifiability and I've changed my vote. Still, the article itself should be reworked thoroughly, especially the references since some important ones are dead links. --RockyMM (talk) 16:35, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I welcome your decision. There is a lot of work to be done in the area of Serbian rock music, and this article will be definitely be improved at a certain point. Until then, I can add these quotations into the article in the 'Reactions' section, as the first step in its improvement. It was a pleasure debating with you. Have a nice day.--Milosppf (talk) 18:06, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you've done well since notability and verifiability are established for the list. Also the article has some more content, which is good. There is a lot to be done. I could recommend Ostalocutanje to include these he to references to lupiga.ba and ngo.ba that he has found somewhere inside the article in some kind of prose. --RockyMM (talk) 22:15, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.