Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Art Supawatt Purdy

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Soi Cowboy (film). Article can be recreated iff there are multiple reliable sources to support it. (non-admin closure) ansh666 19:16, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Art Supawatt Purdy[edit]

Art Supawatt Purdy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Not enough coverage in independent, reliable sources to verify or sustian article. Fails Wikipedia's General Notability Guidelines and WP:NACTOR. All of the references are to user generated sites and social media. I could find no reliable source coverage of the subject. JbhTalk 18:35, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. JbhTalk 18:36, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Thailand-related deletion discussions. JbhTalk 18:36, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have spent more time edited this page to try to meet the guideline. Please recheck and be kind. I am learning on the job here, If you would please kindly advise me to be a better editor, i would greatly appreciate it.
To clarify your claim: " All of the references are to user generated sites and social media"
List of References:
  • Asianfuse Art Supawatt Purdy: Is not user generated or social media but it's Asian Fuse Wiki Asian Fuse Wiki
  • LinkedIn Art Supawatt Purdy:
  • 2008 Canne Film Festival Un Certain Regard Official Selection Page: Is not user generated or social media, but the official Cannes Film Festival Website
  • Thai Film Journal: A blog on the film 'Soi Cowboy'
  • Cannes Film Festival Artist Sheet: Is not user generated or social media, but the official Cannes Film Festival Website
More References for Art Supawatt Purdy:
1. https://www.theguardian.com/film/movie/124581/soi-cowboy - Listed under 'WIth'
2. http://www.filmweb.pl/person/Art+Supawatt+Purdy-884183
3. http://www.newswit.com/.life/2010-07-08/7360aea8223895d082b76c45d852e6f9/
More References:
Like most Thai/American Actor/people, He has a Thai name (Supawatt Aumprasit). His nickname is Art. It's fashionable for Thai Press to call actors and actresses by their nickname and first name only. Thus, he is also known as 'Art Supawatt.'
Searching for Supawatt Aumprasit & Art Supawatt, you get:
1. https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ศุภวัฒน์_อ่ำประสิทธิ์
2. http://filmdirectory2013.blogspot.com/2013/08/list-of-thailand-actors.html
Seaching for Art Supawatt & Soi Cowboy (Film), you get:
1. http://variety.com/2008/film/markets-festivals/soi-cowboy-1200522405/
2. http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/737991/Soi-Cowboy/
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Greekadoniz (talk • contribs)
  • I see nothing of substance in those references, most simply mention him as being in the movie. Also, any wiki is by definition user generated content and therefore not a reliable source. The Thai Wikipedia article does not contain any better sources and the article itself can not be used as a reference because Wikipedia can not cite Wikipedia.

    I know it can be disappointing to have an article deleted but the Wikipedia notability guidelines, in this case WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR along with the requirement for reliable sources exist to both prevent promotional articles and to insure an article is verifiabe. In this case it may simply be WP:TOOSOON for an article. JbhTalk 23:31, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Please keep in mind that the subject's active career was almost twenty years ago, and most searchable online sources don't stretch back that far, even if WP:offline sources do exist. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:37, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Before this is a valid argument there must be some indication that offline source exist. In this case it would be demonstrating he meets one of the points in WP:NACTOR. We have nothing which allows to presume sources exist therefore he is not notable per policy. JbhTalk 15:24, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment:I looked at some articles in the his categories listed and a lot of those articles of actors has even less references, some reference links to an empty page, but how can those articles pass notability test.

For Example: Category Thai Male Actors Attachai Anatameak Pachara_Chirathivat Prin Suparat - This guy only have one reference and it's Asian fuse, but no notability issue there? Yuke Songpaisan Suebsak_Phunsueb

Category: Male Actor from Bangkok Saran Sirilak

Category:21st-century Category:21st-century Thai male actors Pathit Pisitkul — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.87.121.6 (talk) 08:10, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just fyi, this isn't the strongest or most compelling argument in a deletion discussion (see WP:OTHERSTUFF). The existence of those articles doesn't change the notability standards. You could nominate them for notability, but that's for a different discussion. FallingGravity (talk) 14:52, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Please check the article for serveral Additional references and informations. These additional items helps this ariticle to pass notability requirement of WP:MUSIC by meeting at least one of Criteria for musicians and ensembles: 1. He has 2 album with a major record lable Warner Music Thailand (part of Warner Music Group) one in 2003 and the other in 2013 2. He recorded a theme song 'Where we'll never grow old' for a soundtrack of a notable film Soi Cowboy (film) )]] directed by Thomas CLay which was honoured at 2008 Cannes Film Festival by being selected for Un Certain Regard.

I am working on finding more references with offline sources. He's been on many covers and advertisement. If I find those references, how can I present them to you and everyone here? Please advise. Thank you.22:41, 21 June 2016 (UTC)Greekadoniz (talk)

Please note that "being on covers and advertisements" does not equate with Notability for the purposes of Wikipedia. What is required is significant coverage in independent reliable sources. What that means in practice is something like a minimum of 2 or three articles which devote at least a couple of paragraphs each about him not the movie or others. Simply mentioning he was in this or that movie is not enough, there must be some in-depth coverage of him.

That said it may be easiest to quote some sections of the sources on the talk page. Also you can cite specific sources to specific, substantive, claims in the article. JbhTalk 23:06, 21 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please forgive my English and my communication skills and sometimes i may not convey what I want to say clearly. This is my first attempt at creating the article on wikipedia, I truely appreciate your patient with me. What I meant about seeing him on the covers is that I remember reading about him many years ago when he used to be talked about in the news alll the time. His story inspired me alot. I probably can find those magazines articles but how do I present them to you. I also found some clip of his interview on famous TV in thailand on some website, can i copy a link to this article of deletion for you to see? THank you again for your patient.05:32, 22 June 2016 (UTC)Greekadoniz (talk)
Copying links to videos can be a problem, it depends on whether it is from the copyright owner's site or not. If you find better sources then simply rewrite the article using the information contained in them and cite the information to the source you got it from like

(Bob was born in Boston Mass in 1964 and attended Our Lady School [1]. He stared in his first movie, Some Movie, in 1994. In an interview he said growing up on the South Side of Boston contributed to his ability to identify with his character [2] Later he married and had three children and did not star in another film until Some Other Movie in 2007 when Joe Director said "Bob's portrayal of iconic roles in the 1990's as a Boston gangster made him the obvious choice for this film [3] References: [1]"A history of Bob" in Movie Times of USA 3 Aug 1998 page 23. [2] Doe, John A history of Boston Film 1999 p.133-134 [3]Interview of Joe Director in Director's Quarterly Fall 2009 page 31

All of that is of course made up but do you see how each fact is cited to a particular source? I did not use 'ref' tags or a citation template like {{cite}} in the example but it is best to use those in an article. If you have a hard time formatting citations I can help you with that. The important thing is that you are able to show, with citations, the reliable sources where the information came from to satisfy Wikipedia's policy that all content be verifiable. As to sending copies of references to other editors, it can be done via email but, unless the sources are in English, you would need someone who could read them. Typically editors assume good faith that an offline reference supports the claim it is used for so there is no requirement to provide copies of sources, the citation simply must be good enough that the source can be located in a library. Also, please know that all sources should be from publications with a strong reputation for fact checking and accuracy i.e. not tabloids, blogs, wikis, fan sites etc. JbhTalk 14:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so so much for giving me a chance, teaching and allow me to learn, I will get to it soon as i get off work tonight. Thank you againGreekadoniz (talk) 20:17, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have asked for help from another editor who is better at digging up sources on people than I am. Also, please take a look at this brief tutorial on how to edit talk pages it describes how to indent your posts and thread discussions to make them easier to follow. Cheers. JbhTalk 00:08, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to once again express my sincere thank you for your guidance almost every step in this process. Each day of your message you showed me a new thing so I can study and be a better contributor for wiki. I've learned so much from your guidance that I wold not know otherwise whre to begin in the language that is not my mother tougue. i hope that you've see my progress i've made resulted from you taking the time and help someone you dont even know before. I'm really touch.
I was able to find a couple of magazines in English about the subject, may I scan it and email to you please? if so, what email can I send it to. I looked the subject website and saw these magazine with him on the cover and i went to look for them at store for old books and magazines and found them. I've already included the reference on his page. one of the magazine is The Big Chilli Magazine — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greekadoniz (talk • contribs) 16:56, 24 June 2016 (UTC) Greekadoniz (talk) 17:41, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have a few questions, please help me clarify:
1) I was able to find a couple of magazines in English about the subject (he has many in Thai), may I scan it and email to you please? if so, what email can I send it to. I looked the subject website and saw these magazine with him on the cover and i went to look for them at store for old books and magazines and found them. I've already included the reference on his page. one of the magazine is The Big Chilli Magazine and the other one is Living In Thailand Living In Thailand. I also picked up a few old magazines that feature the subject on the cover and an article about him inside. One of the magazine is called 'Gent'.
2) I've found some clips of his interview on a very famous Thai TV show on major network on youtube. In one of the clips is more like a bio and summary of his work and his rise to Thai stardom and in the description it said that Warner Music Thailand prepared it as part of press kit at his CD launch party. I know that I can not use youtube as reliable reference, but can I use what was said in the interview and included as reference? here is the clip Art Supawatt Bio
3) All of the pictures I've found of the subject online are either from magazines or from his CD. In the magazines editorial, they always stated the photographer, but if I contact the magazine or the photographer and ask for connsent they probably think im some crezy guy and hang up on me. There are some pictures that appears to be picture taken from events but since I did not take the picture and have no way of finding out who took them so I cant use it. My question is how can I make this article complete if i dont have a picture of him included? Would screen caption consider to be copyright violation? Please advise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greekadoniz (talk • contribs) 17:43, 24 June 2016 (UTC) Greekadoniz (talk) 17:49, 24 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to run through the sources one by one on the AfC talk page. Offhand I see that the article is reliant on pages that can be edited by other users, which means that they cannot be used as a reliable source in any format, let alone one that could show notability. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:11, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sharerice.com is not editable by just anyone or at least not the page with his article on it. Please check and update your information: [1]
I found article online for 'Art of love' album launch and press release including info on first 2 singles and MV. I hope this is a RS Art of Love' by Art Supawatt Album Launch & Press Release
I also found a few articles online mentioning the subject as a star here:
- Kom Chud Luek Newspaper: Art Supawatt as one of Thai Stars, where are they now?
- Press Release Thong 10 and the comeback of the star Art Supawatt
A travel interview with him promoting his 2nd album at the end: Travel Interview: Art Supawatt promotes this album with Warner Music and his mini-series on CH. 9
  • Please give me more time. I will go shop for old magazine that featured him back when he was more relevant and ill put it down as reference to prove that my research is true and not made up. Please be kind with me and my first effort. Please teach me more and guide me so I can be an asset to Wikipedia. I really want to learn. Thank you.Greekadoniz (talk) 11:15, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Greekadoniz (talk) 11:15, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • It doesn't matter if only a select few can edit - Share Rice is still a wiki and those cannot be used to show notability since anyone can sign up with those and anyone can create one of those. At most this site would be considered a basic database source, but in order to accomplish even that you'd have to show where Share Rice has routinely been cited as a reliable source by several reliable sources like academic texts. It's extremely difficult to assert that a wiki is a reliable source. As far as the other sources go, this might be usable if you can show that the TV series is notable and that Purdy has more than a one off, minor role. This can be difficult because it would basically require that you write an article for the TV show that would establish the show's notability. This only mentions him briefly, so that's a bit of an issue. As far as the Siam Zone source goes, I'm not familiar with that site and the website doesn't have a staff listing, so I have to assume it's unusable.
  • First, thank you for giving me a chance and listen to what I have to say.
  • Yes, that This only mentioned him briefly, but the article was about individuals in the STAR caliber, and his name was included. I remember, as a kid watching him as a leading man on many Thai TV series. One of his TV interview in particular from 20 years ago helped me to aim high, I found part of it at a youtube channel with his name on it.. here Art Supawatt Purdy bio Of course it's in Thai, but the link discuss his rise to THai Stardom (and everything I'm trying to write in his bio) and the interview im talking about is an excerpt at the beginning. Anyone at WP:THAI can tell you that everything I am telling is true.
  • How can I show that the show is Notable? I dont mind writing one or two articles for the TV Shows he was in (if with your help, and if my effort wont get deleted right away lol). It may takes some time to write, but while I want to learn how to be a good editor on wiki,I have a day job.
  • In that same youtube channel there are clips for the main tile of his TV shows, he's got top billing (his name comes first) in all of them (except one, the last one), could that establish notability for him to have top billing in all of them?
Spent 6 hours online last nite researching to prove my point to you, and didnt find much info from 20 years ago except for his last TV SHow.

05:46, 26 June 2016 (UTC)Greekadoniz (talk)

However all this said, I think that this needs more help from Thai fluent editors. There's certainly evidence to suggest that sourcing should be out there, based on the Dara Daily source, and it's almost certainly in Thai, which I don't speak or read. (I'm using Google translate to look over the sources.) I'm going to ask for help at WP:THAI. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:37, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand now that blogs cant be used as RC, but in Thaifilm Journal Blog the blogger stated the fact that and i quote "The trailer makes use of the country-gospel song "Where We'll Never Grow Old", which is sung by Art Supawatt" that's the fact so therefore I can use this blog as RC, no? Please advise Greekadoniz (talk) 05:58, 26 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • On line 86:
2003 || 'Art Of Love' ( ref >Sanook Radio:  Listen to the Album 'Art of Love' by Art Supawatt </ref)

The reason why I used Sanook.com Radio as reference because i want to establish notability ....Sanook.com ranks at #1 Website for Thai Entertainment in Thailand, according to Truhits.net Truehits.net showing Sanook.com is currently at #1 and it also rank at #1 for number of visitors. For his album 'Art of Love' to be chosen by music director for their web- based Radio Station and still featuring it after 13 years must mean this album is in demand for their visitors. Dont you think my point is true and valid for sanook.com for be a realiable source?, please adviseGreekadoniz (talk) 21:17, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 13:35, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect and this should've been closer earlier as such especially had I voted, there's still nothing particularly convincing for his own notability, I would've frankly always explored deletion but this suffices. SwisterTwister talk 07:02, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral but just looking at the article he looks notable enough to me (so --> keep). (Repeating myself I know, but:) Note that if this guy was playing cricket, see WP:NCRICKET, he would have made it in for N, which allows inclusion for one major appearance even if that appearance was a complete failure. Aoziwe (talk) 12:44, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Proposal I suggest a new rule for AFD discussions: If the AFD discussion becomes twice as long as the article being discussed then it is an automatic no consensus .. and hence a keep .. ? Aoziwe (talk) 12:44, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Do we need also to be kind to the WP:NEWBIES ? Aoziwe (talk) 12:44, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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