Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anne Murray, later Lady Glamis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was KEEP. postdlf (talk) 05:51, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Anne Murray, later Lady Glamis

Anne Murray, later Lady Glamis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Contested prod, this is a piece of genealogy cruft about an obscure figure, the claim that she was the king's mistress is unsourced. PatGallacher (talk) 11:57, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

• Unclear - we have to look into book sources. Bearian (talk) 15:32, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Also given that some kings slept about quite a bit in their time (e.g. James V of Scotland) it would be stretching it to say everyone they went to bed with is inherently notable. However there is plenty material on James VI and I, it should not be too difficult to find mention if there is serious evidence that she was his mistress. PatGallacher (talk) 15:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, see WP:BURDEN about the burden of proof. PatGallacher (talk) 16:18, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep She is the ancestor of the present Queen, and she was a Countess per [1], [2]. It is not really necessary that someone be a mistress of a King to have a bio article. She appears in a great many books without the association with James, but scholars have discussed her as a subject of a poem by James: [3], [4]. The latter ref, printed 1911, quotes a letter from 1595 which says she was "fayre Mistris Anne Murrey, the Kinges mistris" and the subject of James' poems "My Ladie Glammes," "Dream," and "A complaint of his mistressis absence from court." On page 78-79 it also says the King and Queen went to Stirling for "the great marriage" between "young Lord Glamis and the Kinges mistress." There was also speculation that a different lady might have been "the King's mistress," as if he were limited to one. Another scholarly book from 2003, p129 says that the "complaint " poem refers to"Probably Lady Anne Murray, whose father was the first Earl of Tullibardine; she married Patrick Lyon, Lord Glamis, in 1595". Edison (talk) 18:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Some of this is pretty obscure, at the very least ought to be integrated into the article to establish notability. Also, there are lots of countesses and ancestors of the present queen of the UK, some of them fairly obscure, are they all inherently notable? PatGallacher (talk) 18:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 16:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 16:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

• Keep Mistresses of royalty almost always play a major political role, and are usually notable The count as immediate family just like official spouses. .
• Keep A history of Scotland from the Roman occupation, Volume 1; Andrew Lang: "The famous case of Lady Glamis is perhaps even more obscure" How can this case be both famous and obscure, you ask? Read on! Anarchangel (talk) 03:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
• Comment. If kept needs to be renamed to Anne Lyon, Countess of Kinghorne. The current title does not follow naming conventions. -- Necrothesp (talk) 18:19, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.