Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American IronHorse

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. leaning towards keep. I would note that we do not require "global" sources, just sources that are not purely local. I would suggest working in some of the sources provided herein to prevent this coming back to AFD. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:35, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

American IronHorse[edit]

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This was a business with some coverage, but I don't see it as enough for an article. There is the possibility of an WP:ATD by merging to Textron, but I think that might throw off that article. Boleyn (talk) 08:19, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 09:20, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 09:20, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment similarly to the HealthOne article, if largest custom... could be sourced, it would probably be notable. However, I hit a dead end then and haven't since found anything. StarM 14:22, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 04:08, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. Box, Terry (2005-08-27). "Business Is Cruising for Custom Bikes". The Dallas Morning News. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "American IronHorse, a 10-year-old privately held company, is one of the nation's largest builders of 'manufactured' choppers and custom cruisers with 500 employees and revenue of $100 million last year. The company said it has had a 62 percent increase in sales this year. ... Harley-Davidson is still by far the biggest bike builder, with 329,000 sales expected this year. American IronHorse and Big Dog, the two largest builders of manufactured exotics, each sell 4,000 to 5,000 bikes annually, analysts estimate."
2. Shlachter, Barry (2003-09-25). "Motorcycle maker announces layoffs". Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "Overall, industry analyst Don Brown of Irvine, Calif., predicts that motorcycle sales will hit 901,400 units this year, up from 828,000 in 2002. IronHorse, he said, is in a very, very small niche custom market, producing fewer than 3,000 bikes, compared with nearly 300,000 Harley-Davidsons."
3. Gopwani, Jewel (2001-09-01). "Success Found in a Slump - American IronHorse Has Built a Niche for Custom Motorcycles". The Telegraph. Knight Ridder. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "In its inaugural year, 1995, American IronHorse sold five motorcycles, all hand-built by Edmondson. Now the company has 172 employees and expects to produce 1,150 motorcycles this year, which is expected to bring in about $24 million. Helping add to those sales, American IronHorse has added 12 dealerships since January, for a total of 63 nationwide."
4. Box, Terry (1999-05-29). "More room to cruise - FW maker of high-end motorcycles plans extensions". The Dallas Morning News. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "American IronHorse motorcycles - many of them cloaked in eye-popping red, blue and yellow paint - resemble big Harley-Davidsons with their polished V-twin engines and hot-rod exhaust notes. But they are more distinctive and have roughly twice as much horsepower as Harley-Davidsons, which for years has been the dominant manufacturer in the crowded cruiser segment."
5. Shlachter, Barry (2008-05-08). "$6.7 million offered for American IronHorse". Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "If Scott Meyers has his way this month, the long-haired, 54-year-old ex-defense industry executive will be the new majority owner of American IronHorse Motorcycle Co., the bankrupt maker of custom bikes that owes creditors $29 million. ... What's clear so far is that American IronHorse founder Bill Rucker, who was forced out in 2003, wants his company back."
6. Andrews, Bill (1999-08-05). "Look-at-me Factor Is High on Powerful Thunder - American Ironhorse Has a Real Boulevard Burner in Its Chopper, but Amenities and Handling Are Pretty Poor". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "American IronHorse, based in Fort Worth, Texas, is one of those manufacturers that started building bikes back in 1994. By March of 1998, the company's operation was working off an assembly line. Soon the company will be moving from its 40,000-square-foot facility to a 225,000-square-foot facility producing more than 1,500 bikes a year. This custom motorcycle business is, to say the least, on an upswing."
7. Shlachter, Barry (2008-03-05). "Creditors going after motorcycle company". Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "Joe Delmont, a consultant to Power Products Marketing and a former contributing editor to Dealernews, a motorcycle-industry magazine, said IronHorse and other manufacturers, including industry leader Harley-Davidson, have fallen victim to a shaky economy. But he said IronHorse has also suffered from poor decision-making resulting from turnover in the executive suite. IronHorse has had four chief executives since investors removed the company's founder, Bill Rucker, in 2003."
8. Box, Terry (2007-03-11). "Bike of the Year is from FW". The Dallas Morning News. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "One of American IronHorse Motorcycle Co.'s new hot-rod motorcycles has won the prestigious Bike of the Year award at the Cincinnati V-Twin Expo."
9. Werner, Ben (2003-10-14). "Outside the Normal Cycle - Dealer Brings Custom American Ironhorse, Bourgets Choppers to the Region". Savannah Morning News. Archived from the original on 2021-04-19. Retrieved 2021-04-19.
  The article notes: "Both Ironhorse and Bourgets are considered boutique brands, a specialized product for a specialized customers. Annually, Ironhorse manufactures about 3,000 bikes. ... Ironhorse cuts its custom wheels from billet aluminum and manufactures its own motors."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow American IronHorse to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 07:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per additional sources provided by Cunard. Peter303x (talk) 20:56, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Hardly the global coverage you would expect to establish notability for a manufacturer, which is the usual standard that applies to other manufacturing articles. All the references in the article are routine annoucements, which fail WP:NCORP. Looking at the references above, most which are again hyper-local to the area, furthest away in Savannah in Georgia. Taking each one in turn:

Business is cruising "The fad is becoming a fixture," said Wil Garland, the chief executive of American IronHorse. Fails WP:ORGIND.
Motorcycle annouces layoffs. This is a routine annoucement that fails WP:CORPDEPTH. "Our business has a seasonal flux to it," said B.W. Clark, IronHorse's senior vice president of manufacturing and engineering. Also fails WP:ORGIND.
SUCCESS FOUND IN A SLUMP - AMERICAN IRONHORSE HAS BUILT A NICHE FOR CUSTOM MOTORCYCLES The Macon Telepgraph. People want to step out of that cookie cutter, Edmondson said Fails WP:ORGIND.
More room to cruise - FW maker of high-end motorcycles plans extensions "We're a good one-and-a-half years ahead of our five-year plan," Mr. Edmondson said. "We had anticipated that most of our [41] dealers would take about 12 bikes a year. But we've got some who want 12 every other month." Fails WP:ORGIND
$6.7 million offered for American IronHorse Routine annoucement, a press-release. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
LOOK-AT-ME FACTOR IS HIGH ON POWERFUL THUNDER - AMERICAN IRONHORSE HAS A REAL BOULEVARD BURNER IN ITS CHOPPER, BUT AMENITIES AND HANDLING ARE PRETTY POOR. fter all, as Edmondson said, ``Most of our customers are just looking for a boulevard burner. It is a press release. Fails WP:ORGIND

References 7, 8, and 9 are of the same quality. Reference 9 which is a mixed article, discusses other manufactures, discusses the Ironhorse outlet. These are very poor references. The majority fail WP:NCORP. scope_creep^Talk

Comment: American IronHorse passes Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Audience, which says:
The source's audience must also be considered. Evidence of significant coverage by international or national, or at least regional, media is a strong indication of notability. On the other hand, attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability; at least one regional, statewide, provincial, national, or international source is necessary.
American IronHorse operated in the Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex in Texas. It received significant coverage in The Telegraph, a Macon, Georgia newspaper that is the third largest newspaper in Georgia. It received significant coverage in the regional Texas newspapers The Dallas Morning News and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
That the sources included quotes from people affiliated with the company does not make the sources non-independent. The sources note that analysts have covered American IronHorse. The Dallas Morning News notes, "American IronHorse and Big Dog, the two largest builders of manufactured exotics, each sell 4,000 to 5,000 bikes annually, analysts estimate." The Fort Worth Star-Telegram quotes from industry analyst Don Brown of Irvine, California, "IronHorse, he said, is in a very, very small niche custom market, producing fewer than 3,000 bikes, compared with nearly 300,000 Harley-Davidsons."
The Dallas Morning News has detailed commentary of American Ironhorse, "American IronHorse motorcycles - many of them cloaked in eye-popping red, blue and yellow paint - resemble big Harley-Davidsons with their polished V-twin engines and hot-rod exhaust notes. But they are more distinctive and have roughly twice as much horsepower as Harley-Davidsons, which for years has been the dominant manufacturer in the crowded cruiser segment."
Cunard (talk) 21:47, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the sources listed above. Should be added to article, but meets WP:GNG. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:45, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:56, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Victoria Advocate (Victoria, Texas) 09 Sep 2001, Sun Page 35 Custom motorcycle maker growing shows significant coverage of the company from its beginning to current. The Kansas City Star (Kansas City, Missouri) 27 Aug 2005, Sat Page 72 says they are one of the nation's largest builders of choppers and their annual revenue was for $100 million the previous year. Ample coverage of them found about. Dream Focus 16:06, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete User Scope Creep makes several strong arguments for removal. Star7924 (talk) 15:22, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.