Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alon Eizenman

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is a weak consensus here that the article does meet the main notability guideline. Davewild (talk) 06:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alon Eizenman[edit]

Alon Eizenman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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fails WP:NHOCKEY and WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 22:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:54, 10 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:54, 10 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:54, 10 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Per [1] it looks like he played for Israeli National Team at the World Championship. That is enough to meet WP:NHOCKEY. Agtx (talk) 06:56, 11 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The WP:HOCKEY criteria is very weak as he never played higher than Division I for one year and all of the rest was at the Division II level. Any other leagues that he played in are of no status to the project. Deadman137 (talk) 21:47, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep added a couple of news articles, his college team, and his role in an overtimve victory over Australia. I think it passes now.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:27, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How are those articles anything more than just WP:ROUTINE? Deadman137 (talk) 21:37, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:NHOCKEY says playing on national team. I accept that, but these 2 articles do add to notability and enable us to source his college team.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:59, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NHOCKEY specifies that notability is presumed from playing on a senior national team such as at the Olympic Games or World Championship. Israel is playing in Division II. If this is enough to presume notability, then excuse me while I go create hundreds of articles for Mexican and North Korean hockey players. Joeykai (talk) 22:57, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm sourcing, building the article now. He googles very well. I totally get that you're policing WP for articles about athletes who are too minor to merit articles. And admit freely my general ignorance of sports. However, when an athlete or topic in any category fails the rule of thumb guideline (must be Division I, etc.) it's a good idea to follow WP:BEFORE and see if he's notable in some other way - In this case, because of lots of media coverage of his college career - before starting an AFD.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure that you can find articles about his college career but similar articles in the past have been dismissed as routine sports coverage and the independence of the authors is usually very questionable at best. Also note that just playing college hockey does not make him notable, he would have had to have earned some type of preeminent honour and he did not do so. Deadman137 (talk) 15:05, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This [[2]].E.M.Gregory (talk) 03:08, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The league you have cited in the article does not meet accepted criteria for a major collegiate league as you can clearly see here. Also getting a tryout with an NHL team means nothing, as pre-season games don't satisfy the condition of playing a game in a top professional league as they are considered nothing more than exhibition games. At this point you have to be able to prove that he is notable for something other than being an ice hockey player. Deadman137 (talk) 05:54, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Players are "presumed notable" if the meet the criteria you have mentioned WP:HOCKEY. Of course, other editors may choose to see press coverage of dramatic, overtime goals to win championship games, the follow up coverage of a former pro athlete now at a blue-linked law firm, or other aspects of his life as adding up to notability. Since none of us WP:OWNs this discussion or WP:GNG, I suggest we let other editors weigh in.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:31, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please look at the case of Patrick Klöpper from earlier this year, he has played at a higher level than this player ever has and yet he is not notable enough for an article. This player has not passed WP:NHOCKEY as article six is normally applied to players at the championship level, this player has played in nothing higher than a fourth tier competition. His college career is nothing but routine sports coverage that many players in North America normally receive. No one has claimed ownership of this conversation, so far you have only been called out for not understanding the policies that are applied in these conversations. Deadman137 (talk) 17:11, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JAaron95 Talk 13:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: First off, the subject does not meet WP:NHOCKEY. It has been our long-established practice to count only the top pool competing for the actual World Championship, rather than lower divisions that do not actually compete for the honor. Since the entire point of subordinate notability criteria such as NHOCKEY is to predict whether someone will meet the GNG or not, it ought to be obvious that teams at the bottom of the barrel aren't likely to generate such coverage.

    As far as the flurry of sources added to the article, let's examine them. This one [3] mentions the subject in a single sentence. This one [4] is a short fluff piece in a college paper. This one [5] is a blog post mentioning the subject in just two sentences. These two [6][7] are routine sports coverage debarred by WP:ROUTINE. This one [8] is a broken link. The only legitimate source I can see is the Post-Gazette article, but one qualifying source isn't enough to meet the GNG, and the only other sources that come up on a Highbeam search are routine match coverage from the Jerusalem Post. Ravenswing 11:48, 18 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

    Several of Ravenswing's assertions are not accurate. This article [Lungen, Paul (1 May 2008). "Israeli hockey hopes melting away". Metro West Jewish News} was far more than "routine sports coverage" (can't link because I got there through a Proquest subscription); this one [9] was a full profile in a large-circulation, national ethnic newspaper, Eizenman is written up in 2 books (one the autobiography of his college coach Joe Battista); this article [[10]] is not a "blog post," Ravenswing describes it as being, rather, it was published in a local, online newspaper; and, of course, One man's "fluff piece" is another man's feature story, [11]; Other editors may or may not agree with me on notability; but I do think that editors ought to be responsible about describing the sources they assess at AFD.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:07, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I stand by those assertions. As far as whether the "Metro West Jewish News" is a reliable source, odds are that a paper not notable enough to merit a Wikipedia article doesn't meet that standard. College papers generally aren't regarded as meeting it either. That Eizenman is, purportedly, mentioned in two books is nice: are you stipulating that he received "significant coverage" in those books, as the GNG requires, and from where do you get that information? And so on. Obviously you don't agree with me, but I take umbrage at the insinuation that disagreeing with you is tantamount to intentional deception. Ravenswing 04:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unsure He doesn't seem to meet notability re WP:NHOCKEY but looking at the awards as listed on his elite prospects entry, he might meet notability re WP:NCOLLATH. I'm not sure whether awards won as a Nittany Lions qualify - it's not a top college team - he was ACHA player of the year - but I don't think ACHA is held in the same regard re notability as NCAA?? In any event, I'm happy going w/ the consensus - but for those who want to delete see whether his any of his college awards qualify re college athlete notability. GLG GLG (talk) 05:43, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
He fails WP:NCOLLATH as well. The ACHA is considered an equivalent to NCAA Division III and I do not recall seeing any articles dedicated to athletes at this level of competition unless they qualified for an article under some other criteria. Deadman137 (talk) 00:08, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: As far as I'm concerned, the sources presented in the article are enough to warrant a GNG pass. --Hockeyben (talk - contribs) 14:04, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 06:18, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
    1. Lungen, Paul (2012-04-19). "Alon Eizenman named to U.S. college Hall-of-Fame". Canadian Jewish News. Archived from the original on 2015-06-29. Retrieved 2015-06-29.
    2. Molinari, Dave (2001-09-15). "Penn State graduate impresses Penguins". Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Archived from the original on 2004-02-29. Retrieved 2015-06-29.
    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Alon Eizenman to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 05:06, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's the same puff pieces that can be found about a lot of other non-notable ice hockey players. Everything that has been written about this guy is just routine sports coverage. The first article talks about him getting into a hall of fame for a non-notable league, the second article talks about him trying to make the Pittsburgh Penguins and I could go find a bunch of similar articles right now about other non-notable players on just about any NHL team's website. Deadman137 (talk) 21:58, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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