Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alex Light

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Userfy. I'll move this to User:Flooded with them hundreds/sandbox/Alex Light. No consensus on ovulation requirements. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:46, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Light[edit]

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Alex Light (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Immediate recreation of a deleted PROD. Doesn't meet the notability guidelines set out in WP:NGRIDIRON, i.e. he never played in a regular season game for a professional football organization. Also fails WP:NCOLLATH. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:51, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 20:01, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 20:01, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 20:03, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 20:04, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify Maybe this is best to be in draft space. Govvy (talk) 20:24, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify He's currently on the active roster, played in all four preseason games, and is borderline WP:GNG. Draft space seems best for this one. SportingFlyer talk 00:05, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify or incubate this egg could hatch any time now... but it hasn't yet.--Paul McDonald (talk) 02:40, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Passes WP:GNG with sources like The News & Advance[1], Richmond Times-Dispatch[2] and The Roanoke Times[3]. Although he hasn't played a game but likely will, he is presumed notable as he has signed for a tier one club and WP:NATHLETE is typically for players whose club is not clearly professional. We've had worse athlete articles that barely met any notability guidelines yet were still kept at AFD. Flooded with them hundreds 06:45, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Interesting... the question is, are these an "and finally" kind of article that we exclude, or a "feature" article that we include... might be a feature. This is why we have discussions!--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:30, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If these are the sources, and we assume he never plays a snap in the NFL, this would at best seem to me like a WP:BLP1E fail based on the coverage presented, ignoring the fact this is a borderline WP:GNG at best. He went to Richmond, these are articles from Richmond and Roanoke (both in the area) from the same time frame writing about how a local college player made the NFL, and the News Advance is a trivial transactional mention. I think he's likely to be notable soon, but I don't think there's enough here to keep in the event he never makes it. SportingFlyer talk 12:38, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I am having trouble understanding the purpose of WP:NGRIDIRON and WP:NCOLLATH based on the above, Cbl62. In this day and age, every single college athlete that has any shot at making the NFL will be covered by news coverage about their journey, mostly likely regional or even national depending on where the player lives. I thought the purpose of WP:NGRIDIRON and WP:NCOLLATH is to clarify when coverage of these types of people goes from routine to truly notable. Based on your comments above, you seem to believe Alex Light doesn't meet WP:NCOLLATH, but he does meet WP:GNG, but only because of coverage from his college athletic career! It is a paradox that means that WP:NGRIDIRON and WP:NCOLLATH are almost never applicable to any modern-day college athletes trying to go pro, because there will always be significant enough coverage to meet your understanding of WP:GNG. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:03, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of NGRIDIRON and NCOLLATH is to provide guidance on select categories where community consensus is clear that GNG will be satisfied. In the creation as part of NSPORT, the initial voters (myself included) made it clear that these are inclusionary standards only (not exclusionary) and that athletes can still have an article if they pass GNG. Thus, the introductory language to NSPORT: "Failing to meet the criteria in this guideline means that notability will need to be established in other ways (e.g. the general notability guideline, or other, topic-specific, notability guidelines)." I'm not yet saying Light passes GNG; time permitting, I will try to dig deeper later. Cbl62 (talk) 17:37, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would add to that it is an assumption (and one I do not believe to be true) that "every single college athlete that has any shot at making the NFL will be covered by news coverage about their journey..." further, if it is true "for this day and age" it is most assuredly not true for every day and age. Through the process of building an encyclopedia, we encounter historical topics as well as contemporary. No argument that it gets confusing!--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:39, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure he's there yet on WP:GNG grounds - #3 is such a local source it mentions who his grandparents are in the second sentence. #4 is a three-paragraph transactional article in another Virginia local paper. #7 is about his recruitment to Richmond from high school. All the Richmond articles were written by the same beat writer. The best article is roanoke.com - "Salem grad Alex Light 'shocked' to be on Green Bay Packers' roster" - and it's filed under the high school sports section, since he apparently went to high school in a suburb of Roanoke. All of the coverage so far is either about his recruitment to college, which is routine high school sports coverage from 2013, or discusses his signing with the Packers or his potential as a pro prospect. I'm not overly concerned if this is kept or not, but I think a lot of this is routine coverage, and if there's not consensus on that, I think it's still a WP:BLP1E (since the coverage of being recruited from high school coverage doesn't/shouldn't count). I also would agree in general with Gonzo fan2007, though someone can pass WP:GNG without passing WP:GRIDIRON or WP:NCOLLATH. Still, these guidelines are broad enough to encompass any professional player or any college football player with national coverage, leaving us to argue whether local coverage of players who failed to play a professional snap passes WP:GNG or not, which is admittedly a difficult task. SportingFlyer talk 03:06, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. My main point is that if someone doesn't meet WP:GRIDIRON or WP:NCOLLATH, then they need to meet WP:GNG due to other reasons that fall outside of their college or professional football career (Devon Cajuste is a perfect example, he became notable because of the show Hard Knocks). If the subject is a professional football player who doesn't meet WP:GRIDIRON, a college athlete who doesn't meet WP:NCOLLATH, and doesn't have other any other notable things outside of football, then it should be a WP:BLP1E fail, being that the only national coverage is about their path to the NFL. Whether that is actual WP policy is debatable, but that seems to me to be common sense. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:57, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not weighing in on at this time on Alex Light, but, Gonzo, your analysis above is as wrong as it could be. If a college football player never plays pro football, but receives significant coverage in multilple, reliable, and independent sources for his college football career, he passes under WP:GNG. The suggestion that a college football career, spanning as much as four years and 50-plus football games, is a single event that can be disregarded as a WP:BLP1E fail reflects a significant misunderstanding of BLP1E. Your view also ignores the prominence of college football in the USA -- by revenue and average attendance, it is the second biggest sport in the USA behind only the NFL, but ranking ahead of MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS, etc. Cbl62 (talk) 15:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't necessarily think that's the argument: the WP:BLP1E argument is the fact Mr. Light (and numerous others) are only notable players because their coverage revolves around their chance to make the NFL. Again, if a player fails WP:NCOLLATH, the only coverage he/she would have received is local coverage, which we should be skeptical of - especially considering there are thousands of college football players every year, and many teams have local sportswriters specifically dedicated to them. SportingFlyer talk 23:09, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have no objection to that. Cbl62 (talk) 19:11, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Works for me too. SportingFlyer talk 20:25, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm good with that.--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:19, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - This particular AfD may be rendered moot by Light's appearing in the near future in an NFL game, but players like Light are an ongoing gray area. Some view the existence of significant coverage in local papers to be enough to overcome WP:GNG. Others view such coverage as routine. I tend toward the former, but I also recognize that there is room for reasonable minds to differ in particular cases. Here are some factors that IMO should be weighed in the close cases: (1) the level at which the individual played: Power 5 program > Division 1 FBS non-Power 5 program > FCS program > Division II, III, and NAIA (Division II, III and NAIA players are very rarely notable); (2) how "local" the coverage is: major metropolitan dailies > mid-size city newspapers > small-town newspapers; (3) the depth of coverage: feature stories > brief write-ups focused on the player > team profiles with brief discussion of player > passing mention in game coverage; and (4) the nature of the player's objective accomplishments (all-conference honors, records set, placement among leaders in significant statistical categories, high draft pick, etc.). In the case of Alex Light, he doesn't score too highly on any of these factors. Cbl62 (talk) 22:08, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I have to say the having playing time in an NFL game criteria is ridiculously low, but Light does not meet that so we have to delete the article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:23, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  02:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mr. Guye, I disagree strongly with you relisting this for discussion. There is a strong consensus across the board that this article is prime to be move to a draft page or user page. This is nothing that further discussion will change and I would prefer an admin review this and make a determination. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 02:36, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The article unlikely to be kept so I'm okay with the above proposal in userfying to my subpage (User:Flooded with them hundreds/sandbox/6). Flooded with them hundreds 08:45, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nomination and move to draft space per suggestions above. Cooked and fried. -The Gnome (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom for failing WP:NGRIDIRON. There's a ton of those "eggs" out there, most do not hatch. Ifnord (talk) 21:55, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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