Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Affiliates to the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Articles are generally only deleted for problems with content if they are unsalvageable, but there have been convincing arguments in this discussion that does not apply in this case. Issues with original research and neutrality problems can be solved through regular editing, and if editors object to the term "affiliates" that could be the subject of a requested move. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 13:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Affiliates to the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam[edit]

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Channel 4 ,British Tamils Forum.Global Tamil Forum ,Transnational Government of Tamil Eelam amongst others are legal organizations and the title implies they are affiliated to the LTTE which is a libelous accusation as the LTTE is banned organization.It also violates WP:Redflag. and was discussed here Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per reasons listed above. — JJJ ^{(say hello)} 14:54, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The nominator's chief objection to the piece rests upon not notability but rather factual accuracy, which is an editing matter. The LTTE is vaguely similar to the old Irish Republican Army, as I understand the situation, in that it is a paramilitary, nationalist, political separatist organization. As an underground organization, it unquestionably would have an "aboveground" arm, much in the way that Sinn Fein was the "legal" political arm of the underground IRA or the Workers Party of America was the "legal" political arm of the underground Communist Party of America in the early 1920s. This is, in short, an encyclopedic topic and a GNG pass, as demonstrated in the footnotes. Now, are there problems with the piece? Factual errors? I leave that to those with specialized understanding in Sri Lankan politics to suss out and sort out. But for our purposes here, this is an article that should be kept. Carrite (talk) 16:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - It seems to me that this article has undergone some sort of vandalism by suspicious looking accounts දොන් අල්වින් රාජපක්ෂ and පාඨලී චම්පික රණවක. This needs to be corrected. But it is no reason for deleting the entire article. LTTE, a party to the Asia's longest spanned civil war, has had well documented affiliations with political parties, aid organizations, intelligence organizations and even states. While Channel 4 affiliation was added by the above mentioned users, BTF, GTF and TGTE affiliations are debatable—Sri Lankan government maintaing that they are LTTE affiliates and the groups trying to disassociate themselves from the LTTE. That's why these groups have been classified under the heading "Sri Lankan Government allegations". However, LTTE's past affiliates far outnumber those debated ones, and thus, this article needs to be kept. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
:My apologies If I was not clear.There are accusations made by Sri Lanka that Channel 4's documentaries Sri Lanka's Killing Fields,Sri Lanka's Killing Fields: War Crimes Unpunished which they insist are false ,paid for and made solely to tarnish the image of Sri Lanka this can be added in the Controversy section of the documentry pages or even to the Channel 4 page if consensus can be found.Similarly the Sri Lankan governments accusations against British Tamils Forum.Global Tamil Forum ,Transnational Government of Tamil Eelam can added to there respective pages but to club them all and say they are affiliated to the LTTE implies that are working together.Channel 4 is a British Public broadcaster to say they are affiliated to the LTTE is totally wrong libelous though I agree there was a controversy over the documentaries in Sri Lanka .This also may wrongly implies that these organizations are working together with the LTTE which is not the case and a clear violation of WP:Redflag this is a serious accusation which requires WP:RS sources to state that are affilated .These are merely the Sri Lankan government accusations they are legal organization based abroad facing no legal action they at best need to confined to the respective pages if consensus is found.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Again, these are content matters, not notability matters. Carrite (talk) 01:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments above. The title affiliates means [1] [2] subordinate, subsidiary, employee,branch , member or closely working together with the LTTE which is a banned organization. Not even one WP:RS source says they are affiliated to the LTTE it merely at best states the allegations or controversy with which they were associated it is WP:OR ,lacks WP:RS sources and WP:Redflag to club all of them together and say they are affiliates to the LTTE. M. Karunanidhi is an Indian politican and the LTTE issue is mentioned in the Controversy section of his article but for that to say he is affiliate or working with the LTTE as the title implies is a violation of WP:BLP as it a very serious allegation.Almost the subjects mentioned here have there own articles and at best they can mentioned in the LTTE page or in the respective pages.This has been discussed here in the RS board such serious allegations require WP:RS sources to say they are a affiliate to the LTTE. Sinn Féin is the Legal arm of the IRA it is mentioned in the Sinn Féin or IRA pages and same is the case with Workers Party of America and the Communist Party of America there is no third page Affiliates to the IRA and here association itself is in dispute and lacks WP:RS sources.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 02:10, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sri Lanka-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:18, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This is complete propaganda and pov 50.100.240.21 (talk) 07:29, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - An appropriate article to have, looks well sourced and on topic, however may be a target for vandalism.--Blackknight12 (talk) 09:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Some of the Organizations mentioned are not affiliates of the LTTE in the dictionary sense. There is no reason this article should be in existence. Some of the facts mentioned could be merged with Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. This article qualifies WP:OR, WP:Redflag and WP:Synthesis. There are 4 sources - Asian Tribune, Lankaweb, Defence.lk and Sunday Observer which say they are front organizations of the LTTE, but none of them meet WP:RS. It is a very serious accusation to say one is affiliate in contrast to being called a Supporter. HudsonBreeze (talk) 14:47, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Relevant article on topic and sourced. Cossde (talk) 17:12, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain how it becomes relevant when the sources don't meet WP:RS and the whole article is either or combination of WP:OR, WP:Redflag and WP:Synthesis.HudsonBreeze (talk) 08:25, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean. There are RS such news agencies in the article.Cossde (talk) 18:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are RS which talk about individuals' involvement with LTTE; that doesn't amount to have an article under this title. This article is built up by the facts based on sources which do not meet WP:RS and rest of the facts either under WP:Redflag or/and WP:Synthesis.HudsonBreeze (talk) 19:43, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the case you should mark these for ref improvement not delete the article. Cossde (talk) 14:21, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the case, this article should be deleted and the meager facts should be merged with existing article on Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam.HudsonBreeze (talk) 01:18, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Cossde's constant reverts of the War Crime section on Sri Lanka Armed Forces and his vote to "Keep" the article without much rationale prompted me to post this comment.

"Affiliates to the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam" was created with the Sole Purpose of silencing those who raise charges on War Crime against the Sri Lankan State. This article is heavily built up by the questionable sources which are either belong to the Sri Lankan Government/Military directly or backed by them.

Please note "Rohan Gunaratna" is a Sinhalese national and his number of articles are published in the websites of Sri Lanka's Defense Ministry. Rohan Gunaratna's facts are quoted in three different places in the article.

Please note "Waduge, Shenali" also a Sinhalese national and her article is published on the Pro-Government media "Asia Tribune". Her facts are quoted in three different places in the article.

Please note again "Supporters are NOT Affiliates"; almost the entire Tamil Community was the Supporter of the Main Cause of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam and indirectly the entire Tamil Community is the supporter of the LTTE. But they are not affiliates since they haven't endorsed or participated or get involved the tactics which LTTE used to achieve the common goal.

The existence of this article will only support Sri Lankan Government to easily manipulate against it charges on War Crime by pointing each and every one/institution that they are Affiliates of the LTTE when they raise their voice against the atrocities of the Sri Lankan Government.HudsonBreeze (talk) 04:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In your own words, HudsonBreeze doesn't this comment seem to be WP:OR and WP:Synthesis ? Cossde (talk) 10:53, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 12:03, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reply - @Cossde.This is Talk Page not the concerned article to highly worry about WP:OR and WP:Synthesis.

BTW: Can you show me the term "AFFILIATE" and how many times they are used in the sources which meet WP:RS in the article?HudsonBreeze (talk) 01:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - @HudsonBreeze. Again, the objection is based on the neutrality of content (or lack thereof) rather than the matter of notability of the subject at hand. I don't have any doubt either that this is a contentious matter or that there are problems with the piece the way that it currently stands. But this matter strikes me as being completely independent of the question of notability. Carrite (talk) 17:37, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reply - @Carrite. The Notability of the term "AFFILIATE" in connection with the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, is created under WP:OR and WP:Synthesis in the concerned article. Can you show me the term "AFFILIATE" and how many times they are used in the sources which meet WP:RS in the article?HudsonBreeze (talk) 01:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 00:50, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Delete None of the groups were part or affiliated to the LTTE the Indian Army or Sri Lankan Army were never affiliated to the LTTE and it violates WP:libeland it is a Wikipedia policy to delete material is libelous or defamatory.Tamil National Alliance alone was the Proxy or political wing of the LTTE in Sri Lanka and even its candidates were selected on the LTTE recommendation and it is not mentioned in this article.I am say this as a Muslim originally from Trincomalee Trenchfighter (talk) 14:46, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This article needs some constructive edits, but I don't think content issues make it a candidate for deletion. Nishadhi (talk) 16:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This artice clearly disparages the subject per WP:Libel It is Wikipedia policy to delete libelous material when it has been identified.It should noted here that Canadian Tamil Congress one of the those mentioned as a affiliate of the LTTE has filed a defamation case against Rohan Gunaratna author of some of the sources in this article for the alleged comment in a Lakbima News interview that LTTE is operating in Canada under the name of Canadian Tamil Congress, which is the main LTTE front Organization in Canada. Canadian Tamil Congress sues critic for libel:Toronto Star and Canadian Tamil Congress Statement and here Lawsuit alleges defamation of Canadian Tamil Congress by Rohan Gunaratna. This article also mentions that same that they affiliates of the LTTE.Shenali Waduge a freelancer who has written both in Lankaweb and Asian Tribune Ref 10 and 13 and has also written Channel 4 paid to tarnish Sri Lanka and other sources are Sri Lankan government newspapers.Please this article clearly needs to well sourced with Reliable Sources if one is say something as controversial as saying that a legal organization abroad is a affiliate or front of a banned organization when the issue gone to court and organizations concerned have denied it.This article clearly lacks WP:RS sources and disparages the subjects it needs to be deleted.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - @Nishadhi. Before you go for the constructive edits, can you show how many times the term "AFFILIATE" is used in the sources which meet WP:RS in the article?HudsonBreeze (talk) 05:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.