Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abu Mohammed

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 00:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Abu Mohammed

Abu Mohammed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

The only source on this Guantanamo detainee is from the transcript of another detainee's tribunal. We don't even know his detainee number. Therefore this article fails to satisfy the requirements of WP:BIO. Jfire (talk) 19:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete IMHO, Guantanamo detainee's aren't notable for inclusion into WP. ArcAngel (talk) 19:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
• I don't mind if it is deleted - I would like to turn it into a redirect to Ayman al-Zawahiri since that was the name of an alias he used. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
• Just delete it the redirect will not provide any useful purpose to a reader. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 02:13, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Simply being a detainee at GB is not notable, and no assertion of notability is made. The article claims "somali bio" but there's not even an indication of place and date of birth - a bio should have that as a minimum. DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 16:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
• Redirect after figuring out which detainee this transcript was referring to. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 02:10, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Disclaimer -- I started this article. Note: I started it long before WP:BLP was instituted. Geo Swan (talk) 18:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• When to fix up minor errors in our references? -- Lots of contributors routinely silently fix minor typographical, grammar, transliteration or punctuation problems. I don't do this any more when those errors concern the identity of GWOT captives or suspects. I don't think we should do this, because the scale of the number of errors is so large. Geo Swan (talk) 18:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Background -- Lots of Guantanamo captives were mentioned in the allegations against other captives -- or were mentioned during the testimony their testimony. I was able to figure out the real names of most of them. But I wasn't able to figure out Abu Mohammed's real name.
  • The DoD's official documents name approximately thirty percent of the Guantanamo captives inconsistently. Some times it was a (probable) transliteration difference. But many times the other name is markedly different. In a significant number of the captives the alternate name bears so little resemblance to the earlier name that no one could possibly guess the DoD thought they were a single individual.
  • Some Guantanamo captives are held mainly because some intelligence analyst, who doesn't speak Arabic, thought their name, or "known alias", is close to that of a suspect on a suspicious list. So
  • JTF-GTMO seems to have failed to figure out how to keep track of who the captives were. Many captives requested the testimony of witnesses, and had that testimony ruled "not reasonably available", because the camp authorities thought those witnesses were off-Island, when their witnesses were, in fact, also held at Guantanamo.
  • The case of Abdullah Khan is a significant one. He was apprehended by American forces during a visit to the south, after he was denounced. His denunciators told the Americans he was not who he claimed. They claimed he was really a former Taliban Governor, and commander of the Taliban's three main air-bases. American interrogators in Afghanistan told him they KNEW he was lying about his real identity, and threatened to send him to a worse place. And sure enough, they sent him to Guantanamo a few months later. This is when his case should have been turned around. Other captives told him that the real Khirullah Khairkhwa not only had been captured by the Americans over a year before he was captured, but he too was also in Guantanamo. Khan testified to his Tribunal that every time his interrogators insisted they knew he was lying about his identity he urged them to check the prison roster to confirm that they already held the real Khirullah Khairkhwa. It still shocks me that none of his interrogators were willing or able to check an accurate, reliable prison roster to confirm the truth of Khan's claim.
  • When the DoD claimed three men committed suicide on June 10 2006 they initially insisted that none of them had attorneys working to help them file habeas corpus requests. Untrue. Mani Al-Utaybi is one of the men named inconsistently by the DoD. His lawyers had spent almost a year trying to contact him. The DoD would not forward their mail to him -- based on the claim that they didn't hold any captives under his name. They changed the spelling of his name in the three weeks between when they released the full official list of captive's names, and the day they reported his death. His lawyers were never able to contact him. He died without learning he had been cleared for release. Geo Swan (talk) 18:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Many captives testified before their Combatant Status Review Tribunals that the allegations they faced on their Summary of Evidence (CSRT) memos were new to them -- that they were not topics their interrogators had ever asked them about. These captives asked their Tribunals to consider that their file might have been mixed up with that of someone else. Geo Swan (talk) 18:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• Redirect -- I don't think there is enough information known about this captive -- under this name. He may have a full article under his real name. If we ever figure out who this really refers to we can redirect this to their. Meanwhile however it should be redirected somewhere useful. Guantanamo captives missing from the official list is one candidate. I don't really see how redirecting to Ayman al-Zawahiri makes sense. None of the links to this article are from articles where Ayman al-Zawahiri is who is intended. "Abu X" is a nickname. It means "Father of X". There may be some value in creating something like List of individuals known by the nickname "Abu". This would be extremely useful for disambiguation. In another embarrassing gaff there have been multiple al Qaeda suspects named some variation of "Abu X Al Libi" who were called al-Qaeda's third in command. There was an Egyptian al Qaeda leader known as "Abu X El Masri" who was killed in an air strike. It was only after his death that it turned out that the picture of him on the US Government's "Reward for Justice" was actually an early picture of Abu Hamza al-Masri, before his lost an eye. Redirection to this disambiguation page would be useful to distinguish the alias of Ayman al-Zawahiri and the Guantanamo captive. Geo Swan (talk) 18:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.