Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2014 Cristina Fernández de Kirchner's speech at UN

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Merge to Cristina Fernández de Kirchner. Randykitty (talk) 14:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2014 Cristina Fernández de Kirchner's speech at UN[edit]

2014 Cristina Fernández de Kirchner's speech at UN (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Based on unreliable sources (Michel Chossudovsky's "Global Research", Iran State propaganda outlet Press TV and a fringe theory website called "Sleuth Journal"), notability as an event in reliable news outlets is far from being established. Major quality issues and fringe theory aspects. Serten (talk) 03:23, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete – per WP:NOTNEWS and Wikipedia:Notability (events). No indication that this speech has enduring historical significance or will be covered beyond a relatively short news cycle. --Hirolovesswords (talk) 12:49, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I have edited the article because I saw that Mhhossein started it and tried to help, fixing some things here and there (I added some more sources, I placed some conspiracy theories in context and described them as such, I added a photo and infobox, etc.). I did not include the sources mentioned, and I don't have an opinion about them. It has be taken into account that the article has been reduced and then nominated for deletion; before both things, the article was like this. I should point two details about the new article: although it is correct that Cristina considered Bergoglio a political enemy, she does have a good relation with him as Pope nowadays; see Pope Francis#Kirchners for the whole story (she's a populist and demagogue, and won't fight against a figure with such a universal good image; and he's the Pope, he will forgive her if she wants to stop fighting). The controversy that Pagni dismissed as "absurd" is not the alleged terrorist threat, it was a discussion about whenever Obama heard a translation of her speech via headphones or not. Cambalachero (talk) 12:53, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: As said, I did some work in the article in the meanwhile. Its up to the community to decide, wether it should survive, I assume the current content would fit as well into other Kirchner related entries. Serten (talk) 15:25, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: 1. The fact is that the article is not based on those mentioned sources. Repeating this allegation (that the article is based on fringe sources) is like an attempt for a tumult. These allegedly fringe sources are just an ignorable part. Note that:
  1. UN News Center, Israel Nation News, Clarin and Global research make the 'Content' section.
  2. The Guardian, Haaretz, Clarin and La Nación are used for 'Reactions'.
  3. 'Censorship' is made using sources such as; Press TV (one sentence), Sleuth (one sentence), La Nación and Telam.

And clearly the lead part is an abstract of the whole, as you know. 2. The Sources (At least, most of the sources) are secondary reliable ones. So, Where's the problem? Mhhossein (talk) 06:02, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Mhhossein tries to keep the previous version, lousy sources included, by editwarring, the full range of concerns applies. Serten (talk) 09:35, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I don't mean any specific version. The alleged problems should be discussed one by one. According to WP:WAR, An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions, rather than trying to resolve the disagreement through discussion. Serten reverts, without paying attention to the discussions is more similar to editwarring. Although I've repeated that just one sentence is used from Press TV (which is removable if we reach a consensus), He says the whole article is based on Press TV! another alleged problem is citing Global research as a source, while the claim of this source [a] is verified by UN News Center, teleSUR and Fact Check: Argentina. Mhhossein (talk) 10:50, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Have in mind that Telesur is an unreliable source, for basically the same problems of Press TV. --Cambalachero (talk) 16:45, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Then UN News Center carries the burden and proves that Telesur is right in this case! Mhhossein (talk) 17:43, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: per Mhhossein. The event and it's reactions was covered deeply by worldwide media. Pahlevun (talk) 15:35, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge as suggested by Lfrankbalm. See WP:NOTNEWS... unless we're willing to cover each and every speech ever given before the UN Gen Assembly and mentioned in some media somewhere, which is pretty much every such speech. No evidence of anything lasting or dramatic here. one word struck by myself NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:54, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, originally I was "deleted" and when informed of the merge proposal changed to merge but forgot to change the last word. I meant merge. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 22:14, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Argentina president criticized the vulture funds and called them "economic terrorist" for destabilizing countries economy.
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Argentina-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - we are Wikipedia, not USApedia. Bearian (talk) 22:48, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per NewsAndEventsGuy and WP:NOTNEWS. Many speeches by world leaders at the UN General Assembly get some coverage at the time, but it isn't enduring. Barack Obama has spoken there multiple times, but we don't have articles specifically for those speeches, despite a category for Obama's speeches. David Cameron has spoken there, but there is no article for that speech, or any speech he's ever given as far as I can tell. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has spoken there, which got a lot of press at the time, and his speech is covered in his article, but it doesn't have its own that I can find. Egsan Bacon (talk) 03:45, 4 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or Merge - Might be important to Kirchner's career, but as others have noted, this doesn't pass WP:NOTNEWS, and doesn't appear to have any immediate significance over speeches given by other nation leaders during their many appearances at the UN. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 12:10, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge or keep Sourcing is adequate; the other concerns raised above are valid. Merging the article into Cristina Fernández de Kirchner is the optimal solution. Iaritmioawp (talk) 12:47, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge and Delete - Good speech, but doesn't necessarily deserve its own article. Note that Netanyanu's speech on the same topic didn't get a page, and to my knowledge, UN speeches don't get their own article. It's a well written article, but all the info can be merged into the article on Fernandez. Aerospeed (Talk) 13:12, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: @Aerospeed: "Being a UN speech" is not a good reason for not having a stand alone article. Is there any acceptable reason? thanks! Mhhossein (talk) 13:21, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    @Mhhossein:, it's not the fact that the speech came from the UN, it's that the speech isn't notable enough to give it its own article. Not that it was bad or anything, but it hasn't gotten enough significant attention from the media to get its own article. The article itself is well written, which is why I suggested to merge the contents of the article to de Kirchner's page. Look at some speech articles on Wikipedia such as the "Tear down this wall!" speech from Reagan, which got immediate recognition and became a slogan for anti-communism. But as good as de Kirchner's speech was, it sadly doesn't meet the notability guidelines. Aerospeed (Talk) 13:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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