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Kurya Khan

Kurya Khan (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

15 December 2022

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Suspected sockpuppets

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In the Turkish version of our article Second Perso-Turkic War, Kurya Khan in a blatant povish manner changed the result to "Gokturk victory" [1]

Recently, Kutlug Şad made his first edits after 129 days of his account creation, attempting to do the very same in the English version [2]. As shown in the talk page of the article [3], Kutlug Şad is blatantly cherrypicking/misrepresenting sources to push a POV. Kurya Khan, who had not edited in the English Wiki for a month, suddenly appeared, coming to the support of Kutlug Şad [4].

If they're not socks, they both may very well be part of the massive off-wiki campaign aimed at disrupting Wikipedia. One of the members of this campaign even claimed that Kutlug Şad was part of it, see [5]

Moreover, if you read their comments in the talk page of the article, their English is incredibly similar, almost sounding Google Translate ish.

EDIT: I am adding Giray Altay as well, due to the following reasons;

  1. Kurya Khan, Kutlug Şad, and Giray Altay all three have two part names from Turkic origins.
  2. Kutlug Şad became active the day after Giray Altay was given a one-week ban and retired [6]
  3. Kurya Khan [7] [8] [9] and Giray Altay [10] [11] both have made similar articles on battles, which are all similarly sparsely and/or poorly sourced.
  4. They generally write the full word "reply" in their edit summary when using a talk page e.g. [12], [13], [14]. I know, a lot of people do that, this is deffo one of the weaker ones.
  5. Some similarities in their way of speaking:

Kurya Khan: Stop accusing people of irrelevant things. You accuse Discord connection and being another person without any evidence, the funny part is you have no evidence. [15]

Giray Altay: You should not accuse others of WP:OR for explanation on a talk page and then do the exact the same thing. And you should not argue based on convictions you have but on facts. [16]

Giray Altay: Haha! You are funny. You are joking right? Amory is the reason that took you here, I was the first to mention his fringe theory, you saw that and came here. [17]

Kurya Khan: It is you who do not make sense, I did everything I could, but you who do not want to see the facts, do not want to see the sources-documents. [18]

Giray Altay: You know it now. But you should be arguing based on facts not wishful thinking. [19]

Giray Altay: Because the statements speak the truth, and you also know it. [20]

Kurya Khan: I support what I read and those who tell the truth. [21]

HistoryofIran (talk) 18:38, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by other users

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Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.
  • Some further potential connections between them:
  • Crovata claimed to know Italian [22]; Giray Altay has multiple times translated pages from Italian Wikipedia: [23], [24], [25]
  • Crovata and Giray Altay's area of interest are also overlapping, with many edits to or articles created of Huns. Crovata's list of article's he's contributed to or made includes articles edited by Giray Altay such as Dulo Clan, Uldin, Charaton, Octar, Rugila, Bleda, Kreka, Onegesius... I could continue but this is getting tiresome.
  • Crovata and Kurya Khan likewise overlap at Xiongnu: [26], [27]
  • Crovata and Giray Altay are both invested in Arpad being a descendant of Attila the Hun claimed through Irnik, which was probably related or the Attila's son Ernak itself, Attilid descent. [28] (for Giray Altay, see Attilid dynasty - the entire article is based on this premise)
  • Crovata, Kurya Khan, Giray Altay, and Kutlug Şad have all edited pages related to Iran: [29], [30], [31], [32]
  • Edits related to Mongol related pages by Giray Altay [33], Kurya Khan [34], and Crovata [35]
  • Edits on Bulgars and Bulgarians by Giray Altay [36], [37]. This was one of Crovata's main areas, see [38]
I think this is all highly suggestive.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:24, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This might be a smoking gun: compare this edit by Crovata sock JoyceWood (talk · contribs): he showed lack of good faith toward me from the very beginning, this one by Crovata it is impossible to constructively discuss and achieve consensus with editors (WP:DISRUPT) who from the very beginning intentionally ignore Wikipedia principles, and this one Giray Altay Never did they try to constructively edit with me for the sake of Wikipedia, but from the very beginning decided they would be against me.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:11, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As a last comment, I'd like to add that a lot of new users like this have been appearing recently, many of whom show overlap with some or all of the profile I've built here. For instance Vulgabulgari shows obvious similarities to Crovata's emphasis on Bulgars. My running assumption is that there is a sock master who is siloing socks to not overlap too much in what topics they edit, and might even be trying to vary their levels of English. This case with Kurya Khan and Kutlug Şad would then be a slip up on their part. Alternatively this could be related to the Discord being discussed at WP:AN#Massive off-wiki campaign aimed at disrupting Wikipedia.--Ermenrich (talk) 19:19, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [39] Is this what we have become? Being proven right is more important than accepting that how we treat new and IP editors is important? If nothing else this comment shows that this editor is willing to make any connection whatsoever in the hopes of proving they are right. Even if they are it doesn't justify using a sockpuppet claim to silence or win an argument against someone we disagree with. Even when that editor is breaking content policy requirements. I thought we were better than this. --ARoseWolf 20:12, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What is your deal ARoseWolf? I've offered quite a lot of evidence and so has HistoryofIran. Complaining about my morals (rather bizarrely - of course if I'm on the record suspecting someone is a sock puppet I want to be proven right!) at SPI is not going to change the result of this investigation.--Ermenrich (talk) 20:17, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@AmandaNP:, that means that Giray Altay was socking, just not a sock of these two, correct?--Ermenrich (talk) 20:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It means Giray Altay was, yes. The other two will be for the decision of a patrolling administrator. -- Amanda (she/her) 21:03, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dear admins, Giray Altay's current block is set to expire tomorrow. As a proven user of multiple accounts (I guess Frankish 101 counts as the master, though I'm sure that wasn't the oldest account), shouldn't the block be made indefinite now?--Ermenrich (talk) 00:30, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Bbb23:, they actually have a lot of overlap, just in different areas of the project:
  1. translations from other Wikis: Frankish 101 [40], [41], [42]. Giray Altay [43], [44], [45]
  2. Edits and the creation of articles focusing on artists and art: Frankish 101 [46], [47], [48]; Geray Altay [49], [50], [51], [52]
  3. Interest in other historical personages: Frankish 101 [53]; Giray Altay [54]
  4. edits on cities and city landmarks: Frankish 101 [55], [56]; Giray Altay [57], [58]
  5. Interest in lists of people in general: Frankish 101 [59] [60]; Giray Altay [61], [62]
  6. Interest in persons of pop-culture: Frankish 101 [63], [64]; Giray Altay's first edit [65]]
It looks to me like the socks were designed to edit different areas, with Frankish 101 largely confined to Dutch/Flemish topics while Giray Altay roamed about Eurasian topics and quickly settled on Huns. If you look at the times they were editing, they don't conflict: in the early days GA’s edits take place either after a long run by Frankish 101 or during a break.--Ermenrich (talk) 01:29, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just to reiterate the last point:
  1. Giray Altay's first edit takes place at the end of a string of edits by Frankish 101 20:40, 16 October 2022 (Frankish 101 edited numerous times that day, last one at 20:30, 16 October 2022
  2. The nexy day, Giray Altay edits between 14:05, 17 October 2022 and 14:12, 17 October 2022. Frankish 101 edited 08:10, 17 October 2022 to 13:54, 17 October 2022, took a break, then began again from 18:48, 17 October 2022 to 18:52, 17 October 2022
  3. The next day, Frankish 101 edited from 15:43, 18 October 202 to 15:54, 18 October 2022. Giray Altay edited all day, but with a gap between 10:18, 18 October 2022 and 16:35, 18 October 2022
  4. We then have no edits by Frankish 101 on October 19, but lots by Giray Altay; and no edits by Giray Altay on October 20, but lots by Frankish 101
  5. On October 21, Giray Altay edits once at 16:25, 21 October 2022, and Frankish 101 also only makes a few edits, from 14:19, 21 October 2022 to 14:20, 21 October 2022
  6. On October 22, Frankish 101 edits between 08:54, 22 October 2022 and 09:36, 22 October 2022 . Giray Altay begins editing at 09:54, 22 October 2022
I could go on, but you get the point. The edits seem to take place around the same times (often beginning around 8-9 GMT), often one starts when the other stops, or else edits during a break by the other.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:42, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

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