Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 May 18

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May 18[edit]

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on May 18, 2017.

Fabio Martinez Mesa[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The subject is not mentioned on the target page. Spanneraol (talk) 18:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

America-Freedom to Fascism[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 July 4#America-Freedom to Fascism

Super joy[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix (talk) 15:17, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I initially tagged the article as G3 (blatant hoax) because it was about a supposed spin-off of "Super Why!" that does not exist and the author later admitted on the talk page that it was an "example"/test page.

Keeping this redirect will cause confusion and it serves no useful purpose. RA0808 talkcontribs 17:47, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete I redirected because I didn't see it as a hoax, but just a non-notable underdeveloped show. I'm fine deleting based on the nomination, and would have put the G3 tag back on if I had known. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:53, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget to Power Player Super Joy III. Although that looks like just a partial title match this article, and other hits about the same topic, are the primary topic based on google searches for "super joy", and it does seem to be referred to as just "Super Joy". Next in line is Electronic Super Joy but that really does seem to be exclusively a partial title match. Thryduulf (talk) 18:00, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: The author of the original page has been tagging the redirect requesting deletion. I've reverted them as this discussion is still open, but I believe at this point it can be closed as delete. Home Lander (talk) 19:07, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Home Lander: it could if the only comments here were supporting deletion, but as they are not it can't be. I still think that retargeting is preferable to deletion. Thryduulf (talk) 21:43, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 18:10, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
AFAICT, this wasn't created in violation of a ban or block. GoogleFanatic2017 was blocked after this redirect was created, and I don't see any evidence that they're a sock of a previously blocked account. -- Tavix (talk) 15:13, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Staten Island route[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 July 7#Staten Island route

ZigZag (2015 video game)[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was move without redirect to ZigZag (video game) to preserve history. -- Tavix (talk) 01:11, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Previous RfDs for this redirect and similar redirects:

Unnecessary disambiguation for another redirect (ZigZag (video game)). Was originally deleted but restored without reason. Lordtobi (✉) 16:06, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Toyota V transmission[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to List of Toyota transmissions#V-series. (non-admin closure) feminist 02:36, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This redirect was recently created by this AFD WP:Articles_for_deletion/Toyota_V_transmission. While a specific model of an automobile transmission could be notable, most probably aren't including this one. A redirect to the manufacturer could be useful if this product was mentioned there, but this one is not. Furthermore, most of Getrag is a list of models they manufacture which is unsourced and should be removed as overly-detailed un-encyclopediac content. MB 13:52, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retarget to List_of_Toyota_transmissions#V-series. There wasn't enough information to spin out the article as with the other Toyota (letter) transmission, and the Getrag article doesn't specify the details like with the other articles, so go back to the master list. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:49, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Gamaliel Harding[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. The "keep" side argued that there is no harm in keeping this redirect because it is unambiguous. But the majority "delete" side argued that there is no attested use of "Gamaliel Harding" alone to refer to this person, so it is useless. Deryck C. 15:44, 6 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as an obscure synonym. I can find no evidence that he was ever known as "Gamaliel Harding". -- Tavix (talk) 15:30, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. He was never AFAIK known as this, but it's a plausible enough search term for someone who thinks it's a double-barrelled surname, and it's not as if it's typing up a title that would be better served pointing somewhere else. ‑ Iridescent 15:52, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've never heard of someone with a compound surname deciding to initialize their first surname and primarily use their second one only, so I don't see why someone would be confused in this regard. Unless there's evidence somewhere of this happening? -- Tavix (talk) 16:06, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
H. Ross Perot, H. Norman Schwarzkopf, M. Night Shyamalan, J. Edgar Hoover, F. Scott Fitzgerald… ‑ Iridescent 16:11, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what I'm saying. He didn't go by "W. Gamaliel Harding", he went by "Warren G. Harding". And none of those examples are double-barrelled surnames either. -- Tavix (talk) 16:17, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not a name that is actually ever used as a name of the subject. bd2412 T 03:24, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep per Iridescent. Most "middle name + last name" redirects should be deleted because 1) the target's middle name is rarely and infrequently used, 2) the middle name is not well known and of little to no encyclopedic value, and 3) there is high risk of confusion with other people, which may lead to BLP issues. None of those three apply here, so I'm okay with keeping this redirect. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 16:38, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Anarchyte (work | talk) 11:35, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. I find it totally unbelievable that a reader familiar enough with Warren Harding to know his middle name would have trouble finding his article without this. --BDD (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I'm not seeing W. Gamaliel Harding used in news articles or books. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 03:22, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:23, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:XY. Does not specify the country. There are many "Republican" political parties around the world, all with their own logos. — Mr. Guye (talk) (My aftermath) 14:24, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, feminist 10:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Deniz Efe Açıkgöz[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:23, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The connection is unclear due to the subject not being mentioned at the target article. -- Tavix (talk) 23:37, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. The redirect exists because MBisanz closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deniz Efe Açıkgöz as "redirect to IMDB" although all the !votes were for merging or deleting. None of this person's name, "hoax" or "Turkey" appear in the current version of the article and a revision history search finds no evidence that any of them appeared in the article around the time of the AfD (March 2009) strongly suggesting that no content was merged. Thryduulf (talk) 11:15, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, feminist 10:52, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Games created by Ketchapp[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was speedy deleted G7, by Cyp. -- Tavix (talk) 18:15, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Previous RfDs for this redirect and similar redirects:

There is no such list. Lordtobi (✉) 06:17, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Was made in 2015 when the article had a list. Makes no sense now. Anarchyte (work | talk) 06:28, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

2 Cars[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete after G7 request. Miniapolis 14:19, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unnotable item not mentioned at target article. "(game)" is rather a disambugator for e.g. Chicken (game). Lordtobi (✉) 06:14, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete all. The only sourcing I could find is this, and even though I stand by what I said in the previous RfD, these redirects shouldn't exist. Note that I made these redirects when the Ketchapp article had a list of most of their games and this was listed. Also, another reason for this not to exist is that there is another game with the exact same title, as mentioned in the link given before. Anarchyte (work | talk) 07:14, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Follow-up comment: I've requested a CSD of the other currently listed Ketchapp related redirect, but I do not want this to be G7'd. I've left my reasoning as to why here. There is the possibility of expanding the target to include a brief sentence about this game, though I'd like to have the discussion on whether even if that sentence existed this redirect would still be warranted. Cheers, Anarchyte (work | talk) 11:31, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • Changing my stance to neutral for these redirects. I'm not sure if the newly added sentence is enough to warrant the keeping of these redirects, and for this reason I don't want to !vote delete, or keep for that matter. I'll be fine with either result, though. Anarchyte (work | talk) 11:59, 18 May 2017 (UTC)}}[reply]
        • Follow-up to the follow-up: The sentence has been removed, and there are no other sources on this topic, so I'm fine with deletion under G7. I've already nominated 2 Cars (game). There's been no other comment here since the start of the RfD, so I'm going to nominate the others myself. Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:56, 19 May 2017 (UTC) Added a bit more. Anarchyte (work | talk) 13:29, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Yvette Felarca[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to 2016 Sacramento Riot which would satisfy the "not mentioned" concern. This is without prejudice against a retarget back to BAMN if Felarca's involvement in BAMN is included there. -- Tavix (talk) 20:37, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Non-notable person who is not mentioned in the linked article; no reason to have a redirect here. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 05:41, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retarget to 2016 Sacramento Riot where she is discussed. She is associated with BAMN but made news for her participation in the riot, and is listed in the infobox as a lead figure. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:01, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as is, add to BAMN page, or create a BLP on her. Nb. I have a COI as I created the redirect. She has recently been a 'mouthpiece' for BAMN[1] and is an organiser for it. (Northern California Coordinator of BAMN in 2012) [2]. I don't think she was a 'lead figure' in the rioting, just an identifiable one. 220 of Borg 06:25, 1 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • If she's not a lead figure, she shouldn't be listed as such. We don't redirect random people's names to events of civil unrest just because they're mentioned in an article. If she's a notable organizer of BAMN, that would probably be a more suitable redirect, but that would require adding her and the sources to the BAMN page. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 17:19, 1 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
She's been a named spokesperson to BAMN to the media, so a redirect makes sense. But it will be confusing if her name and activity isn't in the redirected article! Tom Ruen (talk) 08:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can 220 of Borg write up a paragraph or so about her involvement in BAMN on the BAMN page then? That would help keep the redirect there. Otherwise I still stand by my retargeting to the event. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:07, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 02:48, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This can still target BAMN or the event depending on where content is added
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:13, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Solomon Curtis[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:22, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Non notable politician, page was recreated after deletion (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Solomon Curtis. Looks like a vanity creation. DuncanHill (talk) 09:51, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:12, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Blood chemistry[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) feminist 01:04, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unlikely redirect. Blood chemistry isn't actually mentioned in Clinical chemistry nor at blood itself (which was another possible target). I think piping (or just plan removal) would be best. Primefac (talk) 13:28, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retarget to Blood#Constituents as a likely search term. – Train2104 (t • c) 14:16, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I don't understand why this is an "unlikely redirect". Clinical chemistry is clearly about "chemistry" and the article mentions "blood" several times, and specifically "blood chemistries". Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:23, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:11, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Thagana[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was disambiguate per User:MB/draft6. (non-admin closure) feminist 08:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Prior content of article said "This is a Kenyan name from Kikuyu which mean tana river. Tana river being the largest river in Kenya. Thagana is set to mean a big long river. Its is also translated in kiswahili as sagana which is the name of a town near tana river." Prod/AFD action closed as redirect to Tana River (Kenya). Per WP:R#PLA, there is no mention of Thagana in the lead as an alt name (or anywhere in the article). Mukurwe-ini however says it is a separate river, a red-linked tributary of the Tana. Searching finds things like "The locals, in days of old, referred to River Tana as the Thagana" and "Crocodiles are found in the Thagana River (that has different names depending on the part of Kenya)". Sagana says Thagana is an alt name for the town (because the town is named after "Kenya's second longest river, Sagana river which is also called Thagana." However, there is no article on the Sagana river. If Sagana is just another alt name for Tana, Tana is the longest river (621 miles). This should all be sorted out. Perhaps Thagana should be a DAB if it is really an alt name for Tana River (Kenya) and Sagana. And should Sagana River redirect to Tana River (Kenya). MB 14:30, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I looked into this a bit. What I found is that: 1) Thagana and Sagana are indeed different spellings of the same name; 2) the spelling "Sagana" (River), at least in current usage, refers primarily to the red-linked tributary of the Tana; 3) hits for the spelling "Thagana" are more varied, sometimes clearly referring to Tana and sometimes equally clearly to the tributary; 4) the tributary is listed at List of names on Mount Kenya#Rivers, but we probably shouldn't redirect either Sagana or Thagana there (a redlink is better, to encourage article creation); 5) for the spelling "Sagana"/"Sagana River", there's a curveball in that this appears to also be an obsolete spelling of Saginaw River.
My overall finding was that while "Thagana" and "Sagana" are the same word, "Thagana" is used to refer to both Tana (the main river) and Sagana (the tributary) while "Sagana" refers primarily to the tributary. "Thagana" being a Kikuyu name, this actually makes sort of sense; the Kikuyu alphabet doesn't include the letter S; the spelling with S is a non-Kikuyu invention; and since it was the local Kikuyu who called Tana "Thagana" in the first place, there's minimal overlap between the people who call Tana "Thagana" and the people who spell Thagana with an S. Sideways713 (talk) 18:27, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sideways713, thanks for the analysis - you found more than I did. It looks like we do indeed need a DAB to cover this. I started something at User:MB/draft6 to replace the current Thagana. Please take a look and feel free to edit. If we go this route, there will be other changes also. List of rivers of Kenya doesn't include Sagana River either. I didn't include Saginaw River - not sure if that should be there. MB 05:19, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To discuss the proposed DAB at User:MB/draft6
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:11, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

March Against Hate[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 16:21, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Target article does not mention "March against Hate"; I can't find it elsewhere on Wikipedia either. Misleading redirect. — JFG talk 01:41, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • From Google it seems that many of the protests against Donald Trump/Women's marches also described themselves as marches against hate. Most prominent in the search results is Women's March on Seattle but that doesn't mention the word "hate" at all. 2017 Women's March#Celebrities comes the closest I can find to mentioning it, quoting Bruce Springsteen "[…] our hearts and spirits are with the hundreds of thousands of women and men that marched yesterday in every city in America and in Melbourne who rallied against hate and division and in support of tolerance […]". The Women's marches are included on the {{Protests against Trump sidebar}} template so the connection with the current target is clearly there. I think the best solution would be add a sourced mention of this title to a relevant article and target this there. Thryduulf (talk) 11:28, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is there a specific event that this title is used on? Looking at news articles, there's one from Bay Ridge in January 2017 [3] one in Seattle December 2016 [4] Women March Against Hate in San Antonio January 2017 [5] The term is also used in a generic sense [6]. There are also a bunch of other similar titles like Rally Against Hate, Communities Against Hate, Day of Resistance Against Hate AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:23, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - This seems just too vague. I also recall protest marches against homophobia and other demonstrations, outside of the context of the new President coming in, using this kind of terminology. Deletion seems like the right call. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 15:51, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:07, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - This redirect page is very generic and does not appear to have a direct relationship with the article is send readers to.--Orygun (talk) 22:35, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Too vague to be a useful redirect, at least to this particular article.LM2000 (talk) 05:22, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Bella Thorne filmography[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) Anarchyte (work | talk) 09:33, 28 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Starting a discussion to determine whether this sort of "[actor or filmmaker] filmography" redirect is suitable. Initially less than 1,000 redirects will be created, starting with the most viewed pages. See Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SSTbot 3. This is a similar discussion to Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 May 21#Events in 2007. feminist 00:45, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. Assuming that the base name is unambiguous and there is a filmography section at the target then these are very useful redirects. Thryduulf (talk) 09:35, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Thryduulf. No harm as long as the base name does not need disambiguation from other actors. I would argue that if X (actor) is the only X who is an actor, a "X filmography" redirect is also okay. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 19:45, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I can't imagine a problem with this if it's done manually, and as long as the bot's running from an ironclad selection algorithm or from a human-edited list of page titles, this is a great idea there as well. Nyttend (talk) 23:37, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
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