Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 June 10

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June 10[edit]

Category:Catholicism in Nigeria[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 July 19#Category:Catholicism in Nigeria

Language activists‎[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:39, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The proposed style is less ambiguous than [Foo] language activists, because Basque, Belarusian and so on could refer to nationalities as well as to languages. The style [Foo]-language categories with a hyphen, used by the Polish and Ukrainian categories and by many more of these before this CfD of 29 March, is also ambiguous because the scope is activists on behalf of those languages rather than ones for any cause who conduct their activism in those languages. (That is, they're subcategories of Category:Language activists and not of a hypothetical "activists by language" category.) Pinging 1234qwer1234qwer4, jc37 and Marcocapelle, the editors who !voted in the last CfD. Ham II (talk) 07:15, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Certainly change the Polish and Ukrainian categories which still contain a hyphen. Otherwise I am neutral between the current and proposed format. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:57, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It's less than three months since Ham II opened the CfD which moved them to their current names, and less than two weeks since it was closed and the categories moved. What's changed since then? DuncanHill (talk) 11:18, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    In the course of the discussion in that CfD I realised the first ambiguity I mentioned in this nomination. After the CfD had gone dormant for more than a month I asked for it to be closed so that I could start afresh with a proposal to move these categories to Activists for the [Foo] language. Ham II (talk) 18:37, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Polish and Ukrainian categories were not included in that nomination but they might have been speedied. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:10, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reducing ambiguity is a good idea. Rathfelder (talk) 16:41, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Immediate close as keep -- Having reached a consensus we should stick to it. Furthermore, the best category names are short ones. Where more detail is required, the right place for it is in the headnote. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:14, 22 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as it reduces ambiguity. Renata•3 21:39, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:40, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose when we put language and activist in the same title it is obvious that this is for people whose activism connects to the language. I do not think there is an ambiguity that needs to be fixed at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:10, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as I believe it's unnecessary purely as a matter of pragmatics. I see no cause for concern over confusion assuming that even the minutest bit of context is available from whatever avenue leads a reader to one of these categories. Also, if we're going to be that precise, note that, given "Activists for the German language", one could ask "Which German language? Bavarian? Schwytzertütsch?" Largoplazo (talk) 21:45, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An additional observation: If I describe someone as a German teacher, I'm confident that it will be understood to mean that the person teaches the German language, not that the teacher is a German person. The latter may also be true, but that's not what I will be understood to have written. Largoplazo (talk) 01:36, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish astronauts[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:40, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:OCEGRS (and the relevant list article fails WP:NOT, showing how this is indeed not an appropriate intersection by ethnicity/religion) RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 13:35, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, I wouldn't at all be opposed to deleting nearly the whole of Category:Jews by occupation (and similar categories if they exist for other religions/ethnicity). Few, if any, of these intersections are useful navigational groupings or culturally significant phenomena. So WP:OSE is again easily refuted with "the other stuff should be nominated too, when/if somebody has the time for it". RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:33, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:40, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Works by period[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 July 29#Works by period

Category:Welsh-speaking countries and territories[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:43, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: There's only one Welsh-speaking country: Wales. DrKay (talk) 06:52, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I agree. Although in good faith, the editor seems to be pushing an unreferenced cause. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I don't think the category implies that countries and territories within must *only* speak Welsh, and therefore there will be other articles that can fairly be added to this category. SamWilson989 (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There is a traditional Welsh diaspora in Patagonia, known for its sheep. But it is not a country or territory. Mathsci (talk) 10:15, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as Wales is the only "country or territory" that qualifies. I'm not a fan of inclusion criteria that go beyond what a list or category title encompasses, because it's just dishonest and comes across as an attempt to make things into something they're not, so for the creator to apply the category to England, for example, because Welsh is "recognized" there, is like putting Sweden in a category of Yiddish-speaking countries because Yiddish is one Sweden's supported languages. The user also tagged Chubut province, in which only one percent of the population is Welsh-speaking, and Y Wladfa, which isn't a territory. Really, at most only Wales qualifies. Largoplazo (talk) 10:34, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Per WP:SMALLCAT, as the category "will never have more than a few members", especially as per WP:CATDEFINING, it is not a defining characterisic of eg England. NebY (talk) 11:29, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:58, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Wales: official language, Chubut: official minority language and yes it is a territory. No doubt for these two.
On a separate note, there may be an argument for the UK could be included, because Wales is within the UK sovereign state. Yes Wales is not an official language across the whole of the UK and the Welsh parliament acts on Welsh language are part of the UK CONSTITUTION which would suggest legitimacy for its inclusion.Titus Gold (talk) 17:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Making a language official doesn't mean anyone speaks it. Don't name a category "Welsh-speaking" and then make up inclusion criteria contradictory to that. Having 1% of the population speaking Welsh doesn't make the place "Welsh-speaking". Largoplazo (talk) 20:04, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per NebY's comment. WP:SMALLCAT very much applies here, and although Welsh is spoken in a few places outside of Wales, it is not a DEFCAT for any place besides, really, Wales (in the same way the even far more widely spoken languages are not DEFCAT for most countries they are spoken in: "German-speaking countries" might reasonably include Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Belgium (and a few more minor places like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein), but including, say, Canada [where it is spoken by 1% of the population] would really be a stretch). RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:40, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per SMALLCAT. Bondegezou (talk) 09:02, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- Someone has emptied the category. Wales and Y Wladfa, the Welsh colony in Patagonia would belong, but I suspect the descendants of the Y Wladfa colonists are now largely assimilated within Argentina. Even so SMALLCAT applies. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:06, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Y Wladva isn't a territory per se. Largoplazo (talk) 17:55, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question wouldn't dark age and medieval sates that were in Briton with a Welsh-speaking populations also be included? --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 17:23, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete this is a SMALLCAT, at least as long as Wales doesn't go imperial on us.--Mvqr (talk) 13:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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