Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trenkwalder

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Trainwreck‎ on several counts. It is no longer red links, which solves to the nom's primary concern as well as the inhibited search issue. Issues of hijacking in 2018 by an IP or currently by a named editor, cannot be solved via AfD. If an additional DAB page or section of this one is needed, it can be created. If this needs to come back here, suggest conduct issues are resolved elsewhere first Star Mississippi 01:37, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trenkwalder

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It makes no sense to have a disambiguation page of red links. Without a notable entity of this name, the article should be deleted. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:01, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:02, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Chris troutman: This page is an anthroponymy SIA as opposed to a dab: see WP:SIANOTDAB. There are actually many SIAs without a blue link entry, such as Feraye (name) and Aziory. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 16:26, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Except when it was Special:Permalink/801021320. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 16:29, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Does it matter? The promotional article has already been overwritten by a dab (which I later converted to a SIA) since 2018. If necessary, just split the history from the current article. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 16:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yes, because the administrator deletion tool deletes an entire edit history not an article title. Uncle G (talk) 08:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @NmWTfs85lXusaybq: Thanks for pointing that out because I've been here ten years and never saw WP:SIA. The subject still isn't notable, and the entries in de-wiki are themselves probably not notable. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:32, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment, (1) this article was hijacked from being an article about a company, to which an IP editor took objection, and who converted it into this rather strange list; (2) it doesn't qualify as a SIA as there is no special notability in the set of people sharing this particular name. In fact it's very rare for a family name to have set-notability unless the people who share the name are related, and a sufficient number of them are individually wiki-notable for people to want to write about them; the whole concept of SIA's doesn't really help family-name articles; (3) and it's all the wrong way round. Actually I think there's a chance some of these individuals are wikinotable, and this could be a reasonable DAB page, but we write the articles first, and the DAB pages afterwards. So at the moment, as a DAB page I'd delete it, but are we happy to ignore its history as a genuine article about a largish company that clearly exists/existed? Which article are we truly aiming to delete, here? One option might be to restore it as an article about the company, possibly moving to a different title, and permit the recreation of a DAB page if anyone cares to translate the DE articles about the various people of this name. Elemimele (talk) 16:58, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For a fair discussion about this page, I restored the original dab-page as it was before being redirected and slashed. The Banner talk 16:53, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Trenkwalder seems to have been bought out by the Droege group, for which there's a German wikipedia article,[1] but we don't have one as a redirect target. We do have an article about Droege's founder, Walter Droege. Elemimele (talk) 17:03, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I have again restored the original disambiguation page and reverted hijacking the page by user:NmWTfs85lXusaybq. He seems very persistent in his attempt to destroy this page. The Banner talk 17:39, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - The article about the company is the original one and got hijacked by a dab. Just keep it as it was when the AfD started or restore it to the original one. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 18:00, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Out of our hands now; I guess you should have left well-enough alone. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:01, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and Austria. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 17:28, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Right, this is ridiculous; we can't discuss a moving target. Here is my !vote for the admin who closes this: Restore original version of this article and move to Trenkwalder Group AG, and delete this DAB page (as it's not a SIA), unless sufficient genuine Trenkwalder articles emerge to justify a genuine DAB. As I write, there are only two links, one of which is tenuous. It is conceivable that there are other notable Trenkwalders based on the German Wikipedia, but we don't seem to have the articles to disambiguate here, yet. Elemimele (talk) 22:18, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - So, we had a redirect that was nominated for deletion and after an alternative was offered that RfD was closed as a "procedural close" (what IMHO was incorrect, as the nomination was withdrawn by the nominator). Then we got a slashed version of the original dab-page, what I corrected to the original dab-page (i.e. the version that got redirected), then an article of a company showed up, then the original dab, then the slashed dab again. What are we now discussing in this AfD? The Banner talk 22:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - - As a point of order which doesn't really help, I was the RfD nominator and I did not withdraw the nomination. It's here: Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 23#Trenkwalder. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:03, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Given the nature of the deletion tool, I'd say the question is: Is there anything in this edit history, any form of this article, that we want and can justify per policy? Is the company notable? Is the list of people with this surname, and potential translations from the German Wikipedia, at various points also including a redlink for the very same company bizarrely inviting editors to write the original article all over again, suitable? 90.253.253.200 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has given us an utter mess of an edit history, to sort out whether and what part of we want. Uncle G (talk) 08:25, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There is no version of a disambiguation page that is better than nothing at all because any such page would inhibit Search. Which was precisely the point of the RfD before it was prematurely closed. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:03, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Restore the 17 Sept 2017 version article about the company which was overwritten by IP in 2018, and upgrade it with sources from the de:wiki article de:Trenkwalder_Group and/or de:Trenkwalder Personaldienste (they seem to be nominated to be merged), with a hatnote to Hubert Trenkwalder who seems to be the only surname-holder in en.wiki ... ah, there are 4 football clubs for whom Trenkwalder would be a valid dab page entry (the company seems to have sponsored several), so perhaps a new dab page is needed. A dab page is needed, to include: Trenkwalder Reggio Emilia, Trenkwalder Reggio Emilia, Trenkwalder Admira Amateure and SK Schwadorf, either explicitly or as an "in-title" See Also link. PamD 12:30, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.