Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tigurats

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. GirthSummit _(blether) 14:29, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tigurats

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Subject does not appear in any sources in Google Scholar or Google Books; ትጉራት only has four hits on Google, the other three of which appear to reflect content from this page Pathawi (talk) 07:22, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:35, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:35, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, i note that the article has around 30 references, it would be helpful if the nominator could let us know why/how they do not contribute to the subject's wikinotableness? Coolabahapple (talk) 13:37, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Gladly. Mostly, these are good sources… but they are not sources about the term Tigurat. I have not been able to access all of them, but I have been able to access most, & not one of these mentions the term in question. Even the one source in Tigrinya does not mention Tigurat people, but instead talks about the Tigrinya language and the Tigray people. The author of most of this article has taken sources about Eritrean Tigrinya-speakers & sources about Tigre-speakers, & then brought them together to speak about the two together as if they were branches of one ethnic group distinct from Ethiopian Tigrinya-speakers. There's language-historical justification for the first part of this: Tigrinya & Tigre are the two living North Ethiopic Semitic languages—it seems normal to want to think of them together in some way. However, the sources presented do not provide justification for treating them as halves of a meta-ethnic whole, nor for imagining a meta-ethnic identity that ends at modern state borders, nor for recognising Tigurat itself as a notable term. While I have not been able to access all of the sources, four things lead me to believe that the remaining half dozen or so will not provide justification for Tigurat's notability:
  1. The use of the other twenty-something sources to make claims about Tigurat people when these sources are in fact about smaller ethnic groups & do not employ this meta-ethnic identifier.
  2. The fact that these usages do not generally support claims about Tigurat people specifically in the article, but are instead about the history of Eritrea in general or specifically about Tigrinya-speakers or Tigre-speakers—for which they're (in most cases) apparently reliable sources, but these uses do not support the notability (or reality) of the overall topic.
  3. The absence of any sources in Google Scholar or Google Books for the English term Tigurat with this meaning†.
  4. The absence of any sources in Google at all for the Tigrinya term ትጉራት other than three mirrors of this article.

I suspect that we're looking at propaganda intended to help establish a meta-ethnic identity. This may be well-intentioned, but it does not appear to reflect actual usage in the sources presented.

† There are a few hits for "tigurat", but all such cases appear to be erroneous OCR representations of other words. Pathawi (talk) 15:58, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

thanks, so as well as this article being non-notable, there may be the issues of WP:REFBOMB, and WP:OR here? Coolabahapple (talk) 17:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The former seems clear to me; the latter looks probable from the comments of the main author, Mesfun Ghebregergis, on the Talk page last year. (Mesfun Ghebregergis claims that written references exist in Tigrinya/Tigrigna [& makes a political distinction between these spellings—I'm not trying to weigh in one way or another], but does not actually provide these references. As noted above, the term does not appear in the sole Tigri(g)n(y)a source cited.) Pathawi (talk) 17:13, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The creator & principal author of the page has weighed in on the Talk page, & consented to page deletion. I know that's not the process, but I thought it was noteworthy & might not show up in this conversation.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:21, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, TheSandDoctor ^Talk 00:09, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete we can’t keep an article without proper sourcing. Like the nominator I’ve looked at all the current sources which are accessible and see no mention of the term ‘Tigurat,’ while a search for the term online produces only very recent items that appear to be mirrors of this article. The article creator has a theory or belief but I don’t see any RIS to support it. I don’t read any East African languages so can’t search in them. Mccapra (talk) 06:07, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.