Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The O.C. episodes from season 4, volume 1

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to The O.C. (season 4). While there was some agreement that the notable episodes should be kept outright, there was no consensus on which, if any, episodes were notable. There was wide agreement that the edit history should be preserved as well. I am simply redirecting the articles to the season 4 article, but leaving the edit history intact so that appropriate material that is not already in the summary article can be merged there. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 02:12, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The O.C. episodes from season 4, volume 1

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Like many articles of 4th Season episodes of The O.C., "The Case of the Franks" has no notability established, and the article hasn't improved for two years since tag banner. I am also nominating the following related pages because of the same reason:

~~--Gh87 (talk) 03:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)~~ They were previously PROD'ed, but they were contested for disagreements. What do you think? --Gh87 (talk) 04:00, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - As User:Jclemens noted, per WP:ATD, these articles should be merged and redirected, thus preserving the history, and making future expansion and improvement possible. Deleting these articles serves no productive purpose whatsoever. Joefromrandb (talk) 12:50, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
~~I don't know: I'm voting delete.~~ Recently, the articles of less notable fictional characters of All My Children have been recreated without proper reasoning. Deletion prevents unnecessary, unreasonable recovery from anonymous users, including vandals. ~~--Gh87 (talk) 12:58, 4 October 2011 (UTC)~~ The Dawn Patrol (The O.C.) was deleted under PROD and re-created as a "redirect" page; would administrators attempt to recover the previous revisions? --Gh87 (talk) 13:00, 4 October 2011 (UTC) Done Agathoclea (talk) 16:47, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Deletion as a preventitive measure is only appropriate in very rare cases; certainly not this one. Joefromrandb (talk) 23:25, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Changing my vote to neutral. Deletion prevents vandalism; keeping history invites irrational re-creation. However, previous revisions have been recently recovered for well-intended preservation. Redirect may be likely as this word should have been bolded; I won't vote for "redirect" yet. "Deleting" history is a travesty to everyone else; I am not one of them. "Redirection" is a start; don't expect me to be happy about this. --Gh87 (talk) 17:01, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - at best merge and redirect if an individual episode is not up to spec. Edithistory has to be preserved. Agathoclea (talk) 16:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Just to clarify, my !vote is not "merge and redirect", but rather "oppose". I favor merging and redirecting if necessary, as an alternative to deletion. My preference would be to keep, and improve, the existing articles. Joefromrandb (talk) 17:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you prefer "keep", then how are episodes notable? Ratings and reviews are not enough; IMDB databases are submitted by users and accepted or rejected by administrators; fansite are less reliable. Do recent third-party publications discuss these above episodes? Do articles outside entertainment magazines discuss them? ~~--Gh87 (talk) 18:58, 5 October 2011 (UTC)~~ Even the show's notability is insufficient to have episodes stand on their own. Look at I Love Lucy episodes: very few episodes are notable; the rest are not. --Gh87 (talk) 19:01, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer "keep" because the articles are not in such bad shape that they need to be redirected while improvements are made. Deleting factual articles that have been here for years because they may not meet the exact letter of notability guidelines is pedantic and unproductive. Joefromrandb (talk) 21:35, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep those which demonstrate individual notability, Merge the rest to a season summary article. That way, past contributed content which doesn't meet notability expectations can be seen in the history of the redirected articles, and used appropriately to expand episode articles, should anyone desire to do so. Jclemens (talk) 05:32, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Not gonna lie, i'm not exactly sure on the best way to format my response, but I feel like most of the episodes could easily (and justifiably) be merged with the season episode list (using a shortened version of the full summary for each episode). But I think the Season Finale ("The End's Not Near, It's Here") should be kept because it is "Notable" if not simply for the fact that it is the series finale of a show that was a huge cultural phenomenon. Also it has a fair amount of trivia and allusions to past episodes, which should be preserved in a place easy to find. Most of the other episodes in this season aren't really that informative for much other than a summary or a music list, but the finale one has enough other info on it that i believe it should be preserved for future visitors. Atotaldumass (talk) 01:02, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I bolded and italicized your votes for you, so it would be easier for admistrators to see and to result this discussion. You can revert if you want. --Gh87 (talk) 14:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or merge as appropriate per Jclemens. It is important to preserve contribution history of all merged articles, therefore deletion is inappropriate. Polyamorph (talk) 15:18, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as above, fails WP:GNG. Stuartyeates (talk) 02:22, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE: The articles not listed above have been deleted per WP:PROD after seven days of proposal; therefore, I rebirthed them as redirects to The O.C. (season 4). Care free to recover previous versions, administrators, or just never do so? ~~--Gh87 (talk) 07:58, 10 October 2011 (UTC)~~ Here's the link:[1]. --Gh87 (talk) 07:59, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect all the above, without prejudice in the case of the finale. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:32, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.