Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The National Dwarf Fashion Show

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The sense of the discussion was that the subject lacks independent sourcing, and the article was excessively promotional. The separate language encyclopedia are created by independent communities, and may develop their own rules for inclusion, so the existence or nonexistence of a foreign language article is no guaranty of notability. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 03:31, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The National Dwarf Fashion Show[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

While there are some sources, I think this article is problematic on WP:ADMASK grounds. It seems like a public relations piece, and to give the topic an encyclopedic article given a quick Google search doesn't make the event seem like that big of a deal seems problematic to me. Jd027 (talk) 01:24, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree they have more than just some sources

There are more than just "some sources", there quite a bit of sources and there from major names.
Besides sources the National Dwarf Fashion show has contributed to fashion weeks in major cities: New York, Paris, and Berlin
Has collaborated with the organization "Donnons Leur Une Chance" which is a big organization in France and has a french wikipedia page. I am unsure and trying to figure out how to link the french wikipedia page to the american wikipedia page.
Has worked with celebrities including: Jordanna James from the TV show Little Women
Has show cased well know designer "Lena Hoschek" who also has a wikipedia page on the french wikipedia.

Not only does The National Dwarf Fashion Show have a lot press coverage. As you can see from above and clearly states in the article they have: Worked with a well known organization, worked with celebrities and show cased works of a notable designers and contributed to the fashion weeks of major cities. It's for this reason i believe their noteworthy enough a wikipedia article

Nerdypunkkid (talk) 08:28, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

advertise or promote what???[edit]

Jd027 did you even bother to read this Wikipedia article or take a look at it's citations. If you did you will notice that it's about a company named The National Dwarf Fashion Show that contributed to Fashion Week in major cities. The article is not about a particular event which makes me wonder did you bother to read the article at all.

None of the citations used provides a way for the one reading it to contact the company, there no phone number, address, email, etc listed. Usually in an ad or PR piece would include such

Even if a contact was provided what service would one hire them for, there an organization that works with organizations the works with people living dwarfism.

50.74.104.61 (talk) 02:03, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

An article doesn't have to include contact information in order to be too promotional. PR is not the same as advertising, and simply increasing positive awareness of something is also a form of promotion. This article is about a company, but the first sentence after the lead says "The National Dwarf Fashion Show is an event initiated by..." The article itself doesn't seem to know how to describe it, so it's hardly surprising that an editor might find this confusing. Grayfell (talk) 03:21, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. — JJMC89 (T·E·C) 19:23, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. — JJMC89 (T·E·C) 19:23, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure. It seems like there's might be article here somewhere, maybe, but the sources are mostly very flimsy. Most of the good sources are primarily about specific events, rather than this particular company, and most of them emphasize Creative Business House (CBH) as being the event producers with no mention of any other organization. If there is a salvageable article here, it would be about the event series, not the company:

This brief blurb from Welfare Society Territory might be usable, except at no point does it mention The National Dwarf Fashion Show. It does however mention CBH Agency

This one is comprehensive and informative, but I don't see enough info to accept that Glammonitor is a reliable source (zilch at WP:RSN). Also, as above, this is about a specific event, and not about the company. That source seems to say that the event was put on by CBH, not the National Dwarf Fashion Show. Is this article about the event, or the company? Regardless, the source doesn't appear to be usable.

The post by "Reign Entertainment" is a blog and is useless as a source. Likewise, Reality Tea doesn't appear to be a reliable source (it's used a lot on Wikipedia, apparently, but it shouldn't be, and it's not useful here).

The Mirror source doesn't seem to be loading properly. All I'm seeing is a single headline and nothing else.

The Entertainment Tonight source is okay, but less than a minute is about the show (hardly "extensive" as the article claims) and again, was about a specific event for NY Fashion Week and says "the event, from Creative Business House, was all about..." No mention of any other company.

The Lifetime link, http://www.mylifetime.com/shows/little-women-ny/video/full-episodes , says (as a URL title) "Page not found". The URL is likely too generic to be useful, anyway.

The Journal du Dimanche source is in French, but really seems like it's again saying CBH is responsible. Ditto France 24.

As for the remaining external links... Nerdypunkkid, do you actually speak French and/or Italian? Non-English sources are usable, but there needs to be something more than just a linkdump for this to be helpful. They look like event listings and gossip site blog posts. Am I wrong? Grayfell (talk) 05:47, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again Grayfell its seems you have taken a liking to articles I have written and published on wikipedia or maybe its a liking to me, either way i'm flattered. I will address your comments shortly but I wanted to let you know that I do not actual speak nor read french nor italian but if you use google chrome to view the article it will translate it for you within a number seconds. I should have mentioned this early on in the article's talk page

The name of the company is The National Dwarf Fashion Show, who parent company is Creative Business House, which puts on a series of events which is known as The National Dwarf Fashion Show, yes this is confusing and I understand, not that its pointed out. I'm in the process of redoing writing the article to clear this up.

The Lifetime link has been fixed and there is no problem other than slow loading with the Mirror source and the Welfare Society Territory citation one can assume upon reading it within the context of other citations that what they are discussing is the National Dwarf Fashion Show

The link dump was done to show that they were many other articles written about the National Dwarf Fashion Show and their placement in external links was only temporarily and they will soon be incorporated as citations within the article

Besides the press coverage (I will address your comments later regarding them and fixing the links now) The Dwarf Fashion Show has collaborated with Donnons leur une chance (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnons_leur_une_chance) and show cased Lena Hoschek (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Hoschek) spring collection. Both the organization and the designer have a wikipedia page and are there for notable according to wikipedia guidelines. Since they collaborated and show cased work that should help with The Nation Dwarf Fashion Show's notability.

Nerdypunkkid (talk) 07:34, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Because of your past history of spam and creating excessively promotional articles ([1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] etc.) I've kept your talk page on my watchlist, which brought this article to my attention. If you feel this is WP:WIKIHOUNDING or is otherwise inappropriate, you are free to seek dispute resolution or bring it up at WP:ANI.

As for the sources, you do not need to use Chrome to use Google Translate. The reason I asked was because relying on Google Translate is not great, and is a common pitfall. See WP:MACHINETRANSLATION and WP:NONENG. Google translate and similar are often wrong or stilted or misleading. All of the template:cites includes fields for translated titles ("trans-title=" I think), but the original untranslated title should always be included first and foremost. If the link goes dead, the original title is what is used to track down the source, not the translated version which is often stilted or just wrong.

The French or German Wikipedias' notability guidelines do not automatically apply to this Wikipedia. Not everything on a non-English Wikipedia is expected to be translated (see WP:TRANSLATION). The French article especially has serious sourcing problems itself, and regardless, having worked with a notable organization doesn't confer notability (WP:NOTINHERITED). The sources are still overwhelmingly focused on individual shows, not the larger organization, and the indiscriminate nature of the links is Wikipedia:Bombardment, which doesn't comply with WP:RS and WP:N guidelines.

I eventually got the Mirror article load. It's very, very vague. It includes no details about the organization of the show, and doesn't even explain where the show happened. Additionally, as this AP blurb makes clear, this was a student show held at FOM University of Applied Sciences for Economics and Management, a school which apparently doesn't grant any fashion-related degrees. It's usable, but very weak. Grayfell (talk) 01:26, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails notability per WP:GNG. I am not finding significant coverage. The article is not well written (almost entirely fluff) and gives no specifics whatsoever. In the lede it says "The National Dwarf Fashion Show is a company" and then in the next section says "The National Dwarf Fashion Show is an event." I don't know if it is an event, such as one that might be held annually, or if it simply is a fashion company that provides models for other events, such as NY/Paris Fashion Week etc. But I didn't find significant coverage either way. By the way, there are many editors on the English Wikipedia who are fluent in French or German, so that is not an issue. —Мандичка^YO 😜 11:12, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:18, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:18, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:18, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Contesting the deletion

Based on my understanding and reviewing the references, the national dwarf fashion show is a separate entity from CBH which is like the founding father of The national dwarf fashion show. It might be confusing as the national dwarf fashion show designates in its appellation an event while being a legal entity.

Being polyglotte, I was able to dissect the media coverage received by the national dwarf fashion show and the one received in France is comparatively bigger than the one received in the USA as TF1, france 24, JDD are well established and pillars in the news domain. The national dwarf fashion show has made a significative impact by widening the field of modelling to women disabled by dwarfism — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philanthropiste75 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:06, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Right now this is an article about a company. The sources cited do not establish WP:GNG for the company, so overall, the article should be deleted. However, some of the content in this article is about an event which may be notable. All of this is poorly sourced in English, but Philanthropiste75 suggests that the coverage is better in other languages. Anyone could salvage some of this content to make an event article but for the company I see no reason provided which justifies keeping it. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:32, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails notability per WP:GNG. I couldn't find any ind. coverage. The article is entirely promotional, it claims to have made significant impact in several cities, despite being formed in 2014. Claims bear no relationship to coverage.Pincrete (talk) 19:09, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.