Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S. H. Bihari

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:12, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

S. H. Bihari

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Fails WP:NOTE and WP:V completely. A glance over Google books does not provide any indication that WP:NOTE could be met (just discussions about movies that he did the soundtrack for, only mentioning him in passing). Ian.thomson (talk) 03:22, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I'm confused about this nomination, as the nominator acknowledges that most of the article is verifiable on Google books. These credits are probably sufficient to pass WP:CREATIVE. Given that the subject died in 1987 and that his work was in India it's not surprising that there's little on-line information about his life. I submit that any songwriter who had composed music for at least 22 Hollywood movies would be considered notable. Pburka (talk) 03:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Did you not read the part where I said that the few mentions are only in passing, and thus fail WP:NOTE? And do did sources causing the article to meet WP:V appear in the article before I nominated it? I found nothing about him directly, only stuff about movies, with a mention "oh, by the way, this guy did the soundtrack." Ian.thomson (talk) 03:48, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of sources is not a legitimate reason for deletion. Editors are expected to search for sources WP:BEFORE nominating articles for deletion. Clearly you did so, which is good, but you still claimed that the article "fails … WP:V completely", which I found puzzling. Pburka (talk) 01:08, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:55, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:56, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Passes WP:Creative. And definitely notable for writing some golden classics like "Bahut Shukriya Badi Meherbani", "Yehi Woh Jagah Hai", "Zara Haulle Haulle Challo Mere Sajna", "Kajra Mohabbat Wala", "Chain Se Hamko Kabhi Aapne Jeene Na Diya" and all the classics of Kashmir Ki Kali including "Diwana Huwa Badal". §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 08:42, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, could you please present one source that passes WP:NOTE? All I found was passing mentions, not anything beyond trivial coverage. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:22, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here's his biography at a major Indian radio station: http://www.planetradiocity.com/musicopedia/music_lyricists.php?conid=1164 Also keep in mind, as I noted above, that the subject died in 1987. Given his prolific output in between 1953 and 1987 it's almost certain that significant coverage exists in off-line sources. Pburka (talk) 00:55, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure if direct sources about the subject would be available online. But proving his work to be notable could be a way here. But i couldnt find that too. I dont know how i can prove that these songs, amongst maybe others, are notable. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 09:59, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable lyricist! I am also surprised to see the nomination! --Tito Dutta ✉ 02:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Keep A lyricist with a long history of contibutions to Indian cinema. We protect such if verifiable. In our understanding that pre-1990s Indian sources are not well represented on the internet, just as are not pre-1990s Indian films, we do not insist that someone whose death predates the existance of internet itself would have continued coverage online. Worth noting also, is that even after his 1987 death, his works continue to be used in film. Enough of a legacy for him to be included here. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 18:27, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I share the confusion about the nomination, especially by someone who confesses to know a very limited amount about Hindi cinema. A correction to the original note, S. H. Bihari did not "do the soundtrack for" anything. He was a song-writer/poet, not a composer. His songs and the movies they were part of, were widely watched in India, South-East Asia and across the Middle-East. He collaborated with the major composers, singers and musicians of his generation in India and the words to his songs are remembered by millions. Purely as an example, a much stronger case could be made for the non-notability and limited reach of an artist like Jonathan Larson, whose single Broadway musical was not as widely distributed as the movies and songs of Bihari (and is arguably a derivative work). The difference in assumed notability is that Bihari wrote in a poorer country, in an era before the Internet, and in a language unfamiliar to the contributor. Indian newspapers of his generation were about a tenth the size of American papers and books had very limited runs as newsprint and pulp were prohibitively expensive in the India of his time. You will find very limited references to even more significant song-writers who died prior to the eighties. In addition, literacy rates below 50% meant culture was largely oral, and songs in movies had even more significance. You would have to go back to the 19th century, or the deep south and Appalachia to find a time and place in the US where songs were as important. Of course, you will find more sources in Google Books for those eras because competent folk-art studies have been completed and wonderful surveys were done as part of the WPA. I will try to scan a copy of his obituary which was published in the Times of India. This deletion request should not have been raised by a contributor who is unfamiliar with the area and the subject. §§SubirGrewal —Preceding undated comment added 01:32, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The obituary would be a great resource if you could scan it. Thank you! Pburka (talk) 02:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.