Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rahim Kadri

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The player never played in a fully professional league, nor for a national team. If this changes, the article can be restored. Concerning CAF Champions League, the explanations have been given why it is not on the list (UEFA Champions League is also not on the list). This is a policy, and can be changed provided there is consensus.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:29, 14 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rahim Kadri[edit]

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Contested PROD. Concern was Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. PROD was contested on the grounds that he has been called up to the Benin national team. This does not confer notability, as WP:NSPORT explicitly says to qualify under that guideline a footballer must have actually played a match for a national- or fully-pro-league team, to say nothing of the fact that the call-up is not confirmed by reliable sources. Sir Sputnik (talk) 22:44, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Sir Sputnik (talk) 22:44, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 21:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:31, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nakon 01:25, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @GiantSnowman: Is the CAF Champions League a professional football league? Because the article says he has played in it. And this source confirms that he actually did. http://www.sl10.ng/news/articles/categories/nigeria-1/caf-champions-league-report-enyimba-fc-3-0-buffles-du-borgou/201188 Isakaba (talk) 21:16, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Isakaba:, the CAF Champions League is a fully professional football league. See List of fully professional leagues, outlined by WikiProject Football. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 23:13, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Isakaba: @Wikicology: - firstly, the CAF is not a fully-professional league - partly because not every team which competes is professional, and secondly because it is a Cup competition. Therefore it is NOT listed at FPL. Secondly, playing in such a Cup competition could make you notable if the match is between two teams which are themselves from FPLs - that is not the case here. Wikicology, you are either mistaken or being less-than-honest (in AGF I will assume the former), however either way this player has not played in a FPL and does not meet NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 07:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea of why you decided to accused me of dishonesty and bad faith, even when I never directed my comment to you but all the same, I will ignore that and stay on topic. Sequel to your comments above that "CAF is not a fully-professional league - partly because not every team which competes is professional, and secondly because it is a Cup competition. Therefore it is NOT listed at FPL.. Have you ever asked yourself why the UEFA Champions League was not listed at WP:FPL? Perhaps your answer will be that "UEFA is not a fully-professional league - partly because not every team which competes is professional, and secondly because it is a Cup competition. Therefore it is NOT listed at FPL.". Meanwhile, this source and this one in particular confirmed that the subject of the article plays in Nigerian Premier League, a fully professional league. I remind you that CAF Champions League is a fully professional league. It is the premier club football competition in the continent (Africa) and equivalent to the UEFA Champions League per this source. The champions and runners-up in the Nigerian Premier League feature in the CAF Champions League per this source. However, Nigerian Premier League clearly passes WP:FPL as it Was listed as a fully professional league in WP:FPL. If you want to raise any concern about it, that's a different topic and issue. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 15:03, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikicology: - NO, it is NOT a fully-professional league - mainly because it is not a league (as previously said, it's a Cup competition!) and secondly because non-professional teams play in it. You keep on talking about the Nigerian Premier League - but I literally have no idea why, he has never played in that league! This source (which you listed above) does not even mention this player. Giant Snowman 15:35, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To be as brief/clear/blunt as possible. You state the CAF Champions league is listed at WP:FPL - it's not. You state that playing in the CAF Champions League makes you notable - it doesn't. You state that this player has played in the Nigerian Premier League - he hasn't. I genuinely have no clue how on earth an editor as experienced as yourself can be so mistaken. Giant Snowman 15:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, I have no clue of why you directed such a non-sequitur comment to me, perhaps you misread my previous post and that is why you misquoted me because I had never said 1#CAF Champions league was listed in WP:FPL 2# I had never said playing in the CAF Champions League makes you notable# which clearly shows that you are the one mistaken and any editor that read my previous response to your conjecture arguments above will agree that you misread and misquoted me. I can see that you never analyze the sources I provided logically ( I doubt if you were even patient to read the contents of the sources). Hence there is need for me to analyze them for you. The first source (this source) established the fact that buffles du borgou is a club that is currently playing in Nigerian Premier League, a fully professional league per WP:FPL. The second source (this one) established the fact that the subject of this article played for buffles du borgou, a club that is currently playing in Nigerian Premier League, a fully professional league per WP:FPL. WP:NFOOTBALL states that "Players who have appeared, and managers who have managed, in a fully professional league, will generally be regarded as notable. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 19:30, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Jeez, are you having a laugh?

1) In this edit you state "I had never said 1#CAF Champions league was listed in WP:FPL" - I point you towards this edit where you state " the CAF Champions League is a fully professional football league. See List of fully professional leagues, outlined by WikiProject Football"

2) If playing in CAF Champions League doesn't make you notable (glad we agree on that!), why do you claim this article meets NFOOTBALL then?

3) Buffles du Borgou FC plays in the Benin Premier League, not the Nigeria Premier League. Two things to gather from this - one, the BPL is not a FPL, and two, there is no sources confirming he has actually played for the team - you need to make an on-pitch appearance to meet NFOOTBALL, you cannot just be a squad member. So again, what sources do you have stating he has played in the NPL or BPL? Or any league for that matter?

I'm sorry but you are heavily/embarassingly mistaken here. I suggest you actually take time to research topics before commenting on them in future. Giant Snowman 21:21, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't expect any offensive wording from an experienced editor of your standard even when editors keep getting it wrong. However that see List of fully professional leagues actually referred to the Nigeria Premier League and not CAF Champions League. Nevertheless, you can put the blame on me. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 21:44, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ Subject of the article meet WP:NFOOTBALL, which states that "Players who have appeared, and managers who have managed, in a fully professional league, will generally be regarded as notable. Per this source, Subject of the article had played in a fully professional league, the Nigeria Premier League, the highest level of domestic Nigerian football. See List of fully professional leagues, outlined by WikiProject Football. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 23:13, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The source says that he plays in Benin, which is not listed at WP:FPL. Appearances in an international club competitions confer notability only if they were between two FPL-clubs, which was not the case in the match described in the source. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:48, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

With all sense of humility, you may want read my response to user:Snowman above. Thanks. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 15:03, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You might need to eat a slice of your own humble pie, given how glaring mistaken you are here. Giant Snowman 15:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman:, this your comment is worrisome, Now I see why we have low turnouts in AfD participation. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 19:30, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG, has not played in a fully pro league. JMHamo (talk) 19:34, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@JMHamo:, analyzes of 1 and 2 confirmed that the subject of the article plays in Nigerian Premier League, a fully professional league per WP:FPL. Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 19:53, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikicology: I stand by my !vote. See GiantSnowman's comments above, I don't need to repeat everything he's already expressed here. JMHamo (talk) 19:57, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@JMHamo: are you aware that they misquoted me above and misunderstood that CAF Champions League is equivalent to UEFA Champions League and that only professional teams play in it? For example, if a source established that Christiano Ronaldo is playing in Real madrid and Real madrid plays in Champions League. What does this illustration means to you about Christiano Ronaldo? Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 20:13, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kadri has not played in the Nigerian Premier League, which is the issue. JMHamo (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Side Comment: Why should the CAF Champions League not be considered a professional football league? This is the premier soccer club competition of a continent that has produced finalists at the FIFA Club World Cup, always gotten to the Q/finals of the World Cup in recent times and infact the 3rd most competitive soccer confederation in the world. I agree that this player does not currently meet WP:FOOTBALL, but my point is that it is not right for it to be so. UEFA Champions League, CAF Champions League and S/American Champions League should all be included in FPL/FPC. Isakaba (talk) 23:15, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Apology that I earlier stated that Buffles du Borgou FC is a club playing in Nigeria Premier League instead of Benin Premier League. I guess that was why I and GiantSnowman were at loggerheads. On this note I remain neutral (stuck my vote) until a consensus is reached on whether Benin Premier League is a fully professional league per WP:FPL (I will consider a thread on the article talk page). If the outcome of the consensus will be that Benin Premier League is a fully professional league, I may consider Kadri notable since he is currently playing in Benin Premier League. Thanks! Wikic¤l¤gy^{t@lk to M£} 21:44, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But there are no sources stating he has played in the league - as I've already said, NFOOTBALL requires you to appear on-pitch, you cannot simply be a squad member! Giant Snowman 09:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Why should anyone consider CAF Champions League a fully-professional league when we don't consider UEFA Champions League to be a fully-professional league. Nfitz (talk) 15:55, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My argument is that a player featuring in the UCL, CCL or SACL should be enough to pass a notability criteria. I am not in anyway trying to say CCL is somewhat superior to the UCL (that will be very laughable of me), I disagree with the "not all teams in it are fully professional" argument. The cup argument is also lacking depth. I understand that it is the existing consensus in Wikiproject Football, so I get that this article will most likely be deleted, but it is not meant to be so IMO. Isakaba (talk) 23:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While I don't disagree with you, there isn't consensus. And what do you do with OCL? Nfitz (talk) 00:57, 13 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.