Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistani Chinese cuisine

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Frankly, this is right on the line between keep and no consensus for me, as many of the keep comments were either weakly in favor of retaining the article, or used arguments to avoid. However, it would be devaluing their arguments and numbers too much to discount them completely. I would suggest that better sourcing will ultimiately be required of this article should it be nominated in the future. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 13:39, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistani Chinese cuisine[edit]

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There's nothing called "Pakistani Chinese" cuisine that exists, in my opinion. I expect a prod to be summarily rejected (as the editor who created this article has edited the article quite precociously), hence the AfD. Request an AfD delete... ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ _―Œ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 17:12, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I found some sources on Google about Pakistani Chinese cuisine and also the author has placed one reference so far. Lets wait to see what more the author does to the article. Dwayne was here! ^talk 17:21, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Could you kindly (if possible) show any of these sources you've found which mention "Pakistani Chinese cuisine"? Thanks ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ _―Œ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 18:27, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:27, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:28, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete "Pakistani Chinese cuisine refers to Chinese cuisine as cooked and consumed in Pakistan". So we should also have a Greek Brazilian clothing and a Macedonian Samoan music? I see 17 results on Google. fetchcomms☛ 23:12, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Although the title suggested some type of fusion between Pakistani and Chinese cuisine, this article is about the availability of Chinese food within the borders of Pakistan. I don't see anything that shows that this is different than Chinese food served anywhere else in the world. Before someone plays the WP:BIAS card, I'll say that if someone were to write an article called "Chinese food in the United States" or "Chinese food in the United Kingdom", deletion would be equally appropriate there as well. Mandsford (talk) 00:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Eh, American Chinese cuisine? See, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS! Run away! cab (talk) 10:45, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm running! (Which usually happens after I eat Chinese anyway). OK, ya got me there, cabbie. Still, there has been some effort on the part of the American Chinese cuisine article to show how it differs from "Chinese" Chinese cuisine. Maybe the fortune cookie message is written in Urdu, and maybe they don't have Moo Shu pork. At the moment, I don't see anything that beyond a definition of "Chinese food served in Pakistan". Mandsford (talk) 13:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the other page also might run with us for AfD. Might be OR; the three links that have been provided as RS - one doesn't open, of the remaining two, none have any references of Pakistani... ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ _―Œ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 03:30, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Useful and notable cuisine article. Has got good information. Rabbabodrool (talk) 21:51, 15 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Articles are not "notable", topics are. Topics are proven to be so by pointing to reliable sources. Which no one has done here. cab (talk) 01:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: This article can be improved. The article is supposed to have information about Pakistani Chinese cuisine. Some useful things would be like localised recipes perhaps..till now, I'm holding for a weak keep. Mar4d (talk) 18:45, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete To me, the article tells nothing other than that Chinese food is available in Pakistan. The one reference seems to be about Chinese food in the Pakistani community in Saudi Arabia, and the external link is to a blog that tells me nothing more. Peridon (talk) 20:32, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 19:51, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

keep and expand.No reason to delete an improvable article. DGG ( talk ) 00:01, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- What reliable sources would you like us to use to improve it? cab (talk) 00:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, a verifiable and notable topic. Stub needs work and sources. Sounds tasty, too. Bearian (talk) 17:17, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It would be nice if some of the people who come on here claiming "notable!" "improvable!" would actually do some of the hard work of, you know, finding real sources (and not just someone's random blog posts and webpages). I restubbed the article and then located about 1.5 sources (two articles apparently based on the same wire report, with different details), and that still hasn't convinced me there's a real encyclopedia topic here, as opposed to "there's some Chinese restaurants in Pakistan" (a factoid which Chinese people in Pakistan already tells us). cab (talk) 01:07, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Second the opinion of cab above. While Bearian finds the topic tasty :) that might not be enough to keep up to the notability issue. If notability can be supported by RS, no issues here. But till the time that doesn't happen, 'keep' calls would find it hard to reach consensus. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ _―Œ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 03:59, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep No reason to delete this article. It talks about the most popular foreign type of food in the country. Rana A.R (talk) 04:13, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Chinese cuisine talks about this topic. There's almost zero information here. cab (talk) 04:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Agreed.. notable topic. Acejet (talk) 04:16, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no notability has been proven. I spent days looking for sources and found barely anything. And I find it rather suspicious that the two editors above, both of whom had been away for weeks/months [1][2], suddenly came back within two minutes of each other to vote "keep" here. cab (talk) 04:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- cab, i haven't been away for months - i have an IP address which i frequently use. Also, the reason why I think this article is notable is because when you type "Pakistani Chinese" on google, there are a number of search suggestions that come up i.e. Pakistani Chinese chicken recipe, Pakistani Chinese soup, Pakistani Chinese rice etc. This suggests that there have to be ghits on Google that reflect. 123.211.170.121 (talk) 07:07, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Google hits do not prove that a topic is encyclopedic. Which of these search results are actually on-topic reliable sources that we can use to write an encyclopedia article, as opposed to someone's random self-published recipe websites or keyword-stuffing spam? cab (talk) 08:04, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would be interested to hear more from Rana A.R and Acejet to support their opinions as to the popularity of the subject and its notability. If they or the IP address can provide decent ghits, I'll be happy to look at them and reconsider my !vote. Till then, I'm considering cooking a North West English Chinese dish for my tea... Peridon (talk) 17:48, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℳøℕø 06:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

CommentThis does not seem to have any notabilioty, I wouold vote delete if no sources can be found establishying this as a widely recognosed cuisine style. All I have found are paghe4s about chinese food cooked by Pakistanis.Slatersteven (talk) 15:50, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, if a weak keep. http://books.google.com/books?id=GQTABKAGaVgC&pg=PA118#v=onepage&q&f=false "With arrival of Chinese immigrants, many cities have restaurants offering a Pakistani-style Chinese cuisine." What is it that makes Chinese cuisine "Pakistani-style" Is it spicing? Is it the way it is served? I'm just on a drive by hit.... Gzuufy (talk) 18:11, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment For notability to be proven, reliable sources which are verifiable and which make 'more than a trivial' mention of the topic need to exist. Till now, in 20 days, 'not one' of the 'keep' voters have been able to give 'even one' reliable exhaustive source to prove notability. In such a case, I retain my delete vote. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ _―Œ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 18:53, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not as bad as you think. The restaurant link clearly takes us to a well known Pakistani-Chinese restaurant in the UK, and the personalities who have dined in there prove the existence of this cuisine and its popularity not only in the country, but overseas too. Mar4d (talk) 08:22, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also note that Chicken Manchurian is an Indo-Pakistani Chinese dish. Mar4d (talk) 08:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Mar4D. In the same manner as I have requested everybody else who wanted to keep the article, might I request you also to kindly show me which reliable source would you be referring to here? I'm sorry for asking but the fact is that none of the others, including you, have shown any reliable source out here in your discussions. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ _―Œ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 13:36, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure you've seen South Asians eat Chicken Manchurian before Mar4d (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistani-Chinese food...if that's still not good enough to prove the existence of Pakistani-Chinese food, then I don't know what is Mar4d (talk) 15:33, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We are not trying to prove existence, we are trying to find reliable secondary sources such as newspapers or academic articles which analyse the subject. Random self-published recipe websites aren't helpful in that regard. cab (talk) 10:24, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mar4d, the source(s) you've shown above - both from a site called khanapakana.com - are not reliable sources as they're owned by an advertisement corporation. Is there any reliable source you might have to prove notability? Even one? I'll be more than eager to help keep the article 'if' such a reliable source proving notability exists. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ _―Œ^{♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣} 04:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.