Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Operation Desert Scorpion (Iraq 1998)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Consensus is that is either unverifiable or not notable. There is a proposal to redirect, but no suggestion as to where to. If somebody later covers this in another article with a reliable source, a redirect can be created. Sandstein 17:17, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Operation Desert Scorpion (Iraq 1998)[edit]

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Notability and verifiability. No sources cited, or found. Furthermore, the 24th Infantry Division was inactive between 1996 and 1999. Likely WP:OR or even a WP:HOAX. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 21:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military, Iraq, and United States of America. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 21:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment While I did not find any coverage of the subject in news, the term did appeared in the index of several books about the war in Iraq (1, 2, 3). However since these books don't have previews, the extent of the coverage is unclear. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 21:45, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment. Judging by the locations of those references within the book, and the one reference that I was able to view, they appear to refer to the 2003 counterinsurgency operation. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 22:05, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:39, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: looks very much like WP:HOAX to me. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 13:09, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I don't think its a hoax. It looks like it was broken off in 2004 from another article about the 2003 operation [1], which is now found at Operation Desert Scorpion (Iraq 2003). it looks like User:PaulinSaudi added the info on the 1998 event to the original article in 2004, back when we didn't always add references to new content. he's still an active editor, so maybe he can chime in.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 16:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, perhaps I was a little harsh: a lack of verifiable information doesn't mean that it never existed. Is this perhaps the 'draft version' of the operational plan, placed into the breech in 1988 but never fired, then re-used in 2003? If that can be demonstrated, a roll-back-in to the 2003 article might be the way forward. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 16:41, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We will need sources either way to keep this content anywhere. I didn't think you were being harsh, i was excited that maybe this AFD had uncovered a 19-year old hoax article, which would be the new record at Wikipedia:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 17:27, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It would be fun to be the holder of a dubious hoax, but this really happened. I saw it in some newspaper and made a stub.--PaulinSaudi (talk) 21:41, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any chance you could dig up that newspaper? But the article likely fails GNG. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 06:56, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect: I took a look at the two sources mentioned above. Both confirm this was a routine counter insurgency operation. Both mention the operation in the context of other subjects, eg: Imperial Overeach, states, "...but the terrain makes little difference when the United States becomes engulfed in a people’s war. As its early counter-insurgency operations such as Desert Scorpion reveal, the United States is only alienating more and more people with its search-and-destroy missions. The strategists in the Pentagon even resurrected the notorious Plan Phoenix from Vietnam, which..." nothing that meets SIGCOV directly about the subject with indepth information about the subject. I don't know what the best redirect target is, but a consensus redirect is the best option. I don't see any properly sourced material for a merge.

There also appears to be multiple minor operations with the name scorpion in them related to the long term US-Iraq situation and it appears easy to confuse them. // Timothy :: talk 12:00, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.