Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ocer Campion Jesuit College

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 12:56, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ocer Campion Jesuit College

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Fails WP:GNG, promo. Based on related sources. The Banner talk 21:04, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. GameInfirmary Talk 21:26, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. GameInfirmary Talk 21:26, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. GameInfirmary Talk 21:26, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Despite the 2017 RFC, consensus seems to still be that we keep secondary schools as long as they exist. This school appears to exist. Pburka (talk) 22:00, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry, school are regularly removed when they fail to prove their notability. Just proving existence is not enough. The Banner talk 22:33, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. We have sufficient evidence that this school exists. And I have just found these independent sources, which I ask someone to please add:

MEGA FM article on "Ocer Campion emerges best in Acholi sub region".

USAID award for OCER.

KU Medical Center announces training opportunity at OCER.

Jzsj (talk) 22:29, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

None of your sources is saying anything substantial about the school. The Banner talk 22:36, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep ~~Delete Promotional listing without sufficient sourcing. No we don't just keep every school that exists, especially if the article fails WP:NOTPROMO.~~ Most promo removed, and the sourcing is a tiny bit better. The sources don't have good independence, which is an issue, but the article can probably be improved from here. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 01:24, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Frankly, this is more Jesuit spam, sourced entirely by Jesuit and Catholic organizations reporting about other Jesuits & Catholics. As someone wisely said at another AFD, what is the difference between something like the Catholic Reporter and the Plastic Bottle Reporter? They are both trade magazines. More than half of the sources here are the org itself. In the absence of independent RS, this is promotion that fails GNG and NORG.96.127.243.251 (talk) 17:57, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To be a tiny bit more specific, the sources given here are

"Who we are" (Ocer Campion Jesuits)
easternafricajesuits.org
ocercampion.org (Jesuits)
campionforever.org (Jesuit fan club)
USAID 2011 Report
jesuitmissions.ie ... (Jesuits)
ecojesuit.com (ecologically-minded Jesuits)
georgetown.edu (a semi-decent source)
Kansas City Medical Center. (dead link) 96.127.243.251 (talk) 18:12, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some trade magazines are considered independent and reliable sources. See, for example, Variety or Columbia Journalism Review. Thousands of articles cite the Catholic Reporter and it has been unchallenged as an independent source in other AFDs [1] — BillHPike (talk, contribs) 18:14, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you mention Variety (founded 1905). Look at the list of article sources above. Six of nine sources are Jesuit organizations. These organizations are not even remotely similar to a hundred-year old journalistic source like Variety. Nor do they have a history of independent quality journalism, with multiple significant awards for journalism, as Variety does. Nor are they staffed by highly trained journalists as Variety is. I just checked and Variety has 41 editors. Not 41 journalists, forty-one editors. Nor do the sources above have the 17 million monthly visitors that variety.com has. There is an enormous difference, I am sure you will agree, between Variety and ecojesuit.com, or easternafricajesuits.org. The organizations above are just trade buddies in the business of being Jesuits, and of basically no journalistic value.

Regarding the NCR, even if the National Catholic reporter is a sound organization, it is not the same as an independent journalistic source like the NY Times or Chicago Tribune. As the NCR says on its "about us" page, it has an explicit agenda and vision: "We see a church alive with the Spirit, its members working around the world to embody and spread the message of the Gospels while relying on NCR as a trusted provider of information and a source of inspiration... We attempt to contribute to the Catholic conversation by supporting freedom, honesty, openness and shared responsibility within the NCR reader community, the communities in which we live and the church", blah blah de blah. It's all about an agenda to promote Christ. And that has been a terrific business all around the world for centuries. But that business is not the same as independent journalism. One is directly relatable to encyclopedic practice, and the other is pushing a specific agenda. As Wikipedians we should be discounting and skeptical of the ones pushing an agenda, while we rely instead on the ones that are directly encyclopedic. 96.127.243.251 (talk) 07:07, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: a verified high school. The project would not be significantly improved by deleting this page. I removed the promo language. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:42, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- But you think the encyclopaedia will be improved by listing non-notable institutions? The Banner talk 10:18, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The Observer (Uganda) lists the school as the top school by results in Gulu as per this and AllAfrica.com also mentions this through it appears to be in a paywall.Note Gulu is a War zone in Uganda with the Lord's Resistance Army .Daily Monitor also mention it here Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:55, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This one by New Vision Group might be helpful: [2] It typoes Campion as Champion though. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:10, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 18:19, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. but of course remove the spam, as we always try to do. Almost all secondary schools with more than a name have in practice been kept, except for rare aberrations, Most school articles are spammy when submitted; they're easy to trim. DGG ( talk ) 05:38, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.