Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohamed Bouchaïb
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
AfDs for this article:
- Mohamed Bouchaib (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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With only one acting role, no evidence of having a major fan base or making any contributions to the entertainment industry, subject completely fails every criteria of WP:NACTOR. Winning an award makes no difference because WP:NACTOR states nothing about awards and nominations, so even if an actor wins a million awards for one role, if that one role is all they did, they still fail the notability guidelines. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 01:22, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 02:16, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 02:16, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 02:17, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - According to French Wikipedia he's been in a lot more than 1 film or TV show (there's no requirement that actors can't be notable for being in one film anyway), Winning a Prix Lumières, one of the most prestigious awards in France and all of Europe for that matter easily lends this person to notability as well as passing WP:CREATIVE - "has won significant critical attention". A combination of prestigious award recognition and some coverage [1] does indicate this person is notable. --Oakshade (talk) 02:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Can you actually verify that he acted in all those films the French Wikipedia article states? It is just like the English one being that anyone can put whatever they want without providing sources, so don't assume that him having an article on other languages of Wikipedia make him notable (in a perfect world, all of Wikipedia would operate together so that whenever an update is made to an article in one language, the same articles in all the other languages would be updated as well, but sadly, this is not the case). IMDB and other movie-related sites, though not always reliable on their own, only show him acting in one role, so even if he acted in the other movies stated, the fact that no one has updated any of his online profiles and information should be an indication that he either lacks a huge fan base or those films are not notable. Also, you should be looking at WP:ENTERTAINER, not WP:CREATIVE for him because he is an actor, not a journalist, filmmaker, photographer, etc. Those are two very different notability guidelines. WP:ENTERTAINER clearly states an actor must have done significant roles in MULTIPLE, not ONE, films, shows, etc. Usually for actors who have only one notable role, we redirect their articles to the film, show, etc they were in (e.g. Julia Winter, Hatty Jones, Carrie Henn, who also won or was nominated for a few notable awards for her only film role, and various Power Rangers actors). The problem here is that we do not have an article on this subject's only notable role yet. Minimally passing WP:ANYBIO alone is not enough to warrant notability. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 13:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The overlap between what is an "entertainer" and what is a "creative" person is blurry and can never be properly defined. Acting is a very creative profession. You'll notice under WP:ENTERTAINER is also includes "opinion makers", but WP:CREATIVE includes "authors, editors, journalists". The definition of "opinion maker" is almost always synonymous with either "author", "editor" or "journalist." I have no interest in the minutiae of always changing tiny subset clauses of subsections of sub-guidlines (see WP:LAWYER). Start an AfD of Peter Ostrum if you truly believe one needs "MULITPLE" significant roles in films to have an article. If a person received one of the most prestigious awards in Europe as this person has, they have received critical recognition. Whether the creative profession of actor is listed under "WP:CREATIVE" or not, I'm using common sense (a clause trumping all sub-WP:BIO guidelines for the Wiki-lawyers) and not going to ignore that fact. --Oakshade (talk) 16:12, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Can you actually verify that he acted in all those films the French Wikipedia article states? It is just like the English one being that anyone can put whatever they want without providing sources, so don't assume that him having an article on other languages of Wikipedia make him notable (in a perfect world, all of Wikipedia would operate together so that whenever an update is made to an article in one language, the same articles in all the other languages would be updated as well, but sadly, this is not the case). IMDB and other movie-related sites, though not always reliable on their own, only show him acting in one role, so even if he acted in the other movies stated, the fact that no one has updated any of his online profiles and information should be an indication that he either lacks a huge fan base or those films are not notable. Also, you should be looking at WP:ENTERTAINER, not WP:CREATIVE for him because he is an actor, not a journalist, filmmaker, photographer, etc. Those are two very different notability guidelines. WP:ENTERTAINER clearly states an actor must have done significant roles in MULTIPLE, not ONE, films, shows, etc. Usually for actors who have only one notable role, we redirect their articles to the film, show, etc they were in (e.g. Julia Winter, Hatty Jones, Carrie Henn, who also won or was nominated for a few notable awards for her only film role, and various Power Rangers actors). The problem here is that we do not have an article on this subject's only notable role yet. Minimally passing WP:ANYBIO alone is not enough to warrant notability. The Legendary Ranger (talk) 13:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. The additional films not mentioned in the normally comprehensive IMDb page for him seem to be Algerian TV (many clips on YouTube). They were added to the French page by an IP. At the moment we have no corroboration, but that might just be linguistic difficulty. Gossipy story here. I would want something more than just the one film and "best hopeful" award for notability. Mcewan (talk) 16:15, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Results from Lexis search show mentions in two roles: Mascarades (covered in Guardian, Variety, the Oxford Times, and Screen International), Le Dernier Passager (a short film, which are often missed in IMDB, covered in press releases as a finalist for a Cannes related award by Canada's National Film Office--no individual award suggested). Those films are also listed at Africultures here which has three reviews mentioning him. Couldn't find much Algerian reliable source coverage (but do not know Arabic, so...), but he is listed as a "famous actor" here [note not-RS] (with a dig at an old version of the wikipedia article). I'm leaning towards Keep at this minute because of two Cannes-award affiliated nominated films he has acted in. But there certainly isn't much to expand content of article in English or French sources that I could find. AbstractIllusions (talk) 16:29, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep- Thought about it, and roles in two nominated films seems to pass everyone's interpretation of the notability criteria, see above. (I have no opinion on whether information should be merged if a page is made for Mascarades) AbstractIllusions (talk) 17:54, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - I connected several broken links between French and Arabic wp and added Arabic names. Sources in French (and if you search in Arabic dozens in Arabic) confirm mentions, gossip column stuff, not just listings of Bouchaib in 3 Algerian soaps on his Agency resume http://www.agencesartistiques.com/Fiche-Artiste/308972-mohamed-bouchaib.html. Besides that his Lumiere award in a film that also won an award... obvious keep. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 11:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - as per In ictu oculi -- and those additional connections were helpful. Tiggerjay (talk) 23:45, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - per new connections, and the award and appearances in nominated films. Mcewan (talk) 15:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.