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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MBisanz talk 22:19, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mayamma[edit]

Mayamma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Delete. Fails WP:NACTOR. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 08:20, 4 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP

  • Article meets all criteria of WP:ENT as explained below:
  • 1. Criteria: Entertainer has had a significant role in multiple stage performances

Mayamma is the Star performer in the numerous shows listed below: 

   Date,  Event,  Number of People in Audience
   - Sept 9th 2014,QAMI Performance + Introduction of Mayamma,250
   - Nov 15th 2014,Social Tuesdays Fundraiser at Humming Tree,450
   - Nov 22nd 2014,Diversity Carnival at Rococo Art Gallery,300
   - Dec 28th 2014,The BeeHive at Humming Tree,100
   - Feb 10th 2015,QAMI First Year Anniversary at Humming Tree,500
   - Feb 28th 2015,"BQFF, Alliance Franicaise ",600
   - Apr 25th 2015,QCI Performance at Paradigm Shift,75
   - Apr 30th 2015,Burlesque Night AT Humming Tree,500
   - July 26th 2015,Open Sky Slam at Humming Tree,300
   - Oct 3rd 2015,MIST Performance,75
   - Sept 26th 2015,QAMI in Hyderabad,150
   - "Dec 8-13, 2015","The Wedding Party, Rangashankara",2560
   - Feb 14th 2016,Burlesque Night,500
   - Feb 9th 2016,QAMI in Drinks on MG (Bangalore),100
   - August 7th 2016,"Easy Tiger, Kormangala",75
   - Oct 1st 2016, Pride Launch at Max Mueller Bhavan,250
  • 2. Criteria: Has a significant cult following

Mayamma has 

   - 2824 Facebook followers [1]
   - 1417 Instagram followers [2]
     as of 4th Oct 2016, which should count as a significant cult following given the context. What "significant" means is debatable, especially given a counter-culture art form that contradicts conservative mainstream culture of the country.
  • 3. Criteria: Has made unique and innovative contributions to the field of entertainment
   Mayamma has met this criteria by raising awareness for gender issues, feminism, self love and individualism through the art form of drag and via the medium of a graceful, Malayali drag queen.
  • I believe that this article should remain, and that Mayamma is adequately acknowledged as a public personality with adequate internet presence and evidence of the same (citations on the article are numerous).
  • Drag as an art form receives censorship due to cultural constraints, and publicity and notability of counter-mainstream culture entertainers cannot be measured on the same scale as mainstream entertainment.

Comment by Article creator: shortindiangirl (Talk) 12:45, 4 October 2016 (UTC)Shortindiangirl (talk) 14:53, 4 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Hello shortindiangirl , the reasons given by you are not valid reasons for keeping an article. What has Facebook followers got to do with notability?? You said Mayamma has 2824 followers on Facebook?? I have 6,692 followers on Facebook. So what is the point?? And by the way, in my line of work, I have addressed bigger crowds than that + have been on several TV channels and print media myself. But that does not make me notable. I strongly recommend that you read WP:GNG, WP:BIO and other related policy pages. Happy editing. Cheers, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 15:37, 4 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]


KEEP (struck double !vote. Anup [Talk] 17:50, 7 October 2016 (UTC)) Objection and response to comment above.[reply]

Yes, I have already read WP:GNG and WP:NP. I have also read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Subjective_importance#Factors_that_do_not_automatically_render_notability And I have specifically followed WP:ENTERTAINER. The criteria is stated as follows:

Entertainers Actors, voice actors, comedians, opinion makers, models, and celebrities:

1. Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.

2. Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following.

3. Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment.

Thus Notability is defined within three major parameters - roles in multiple stage performances, has a significant "cult" following and contribution.

With regards to significant roles in stage performances, a list of performances has been provided.

With regards to a cult following, the stage character without a presence off-stage has a social media following (if there is another way to provide proof of a significant cult following for a digital millennial generation, please provide a guideline)

With regard to innovative contribution, a description is provided.

The reasons provided are valid, as they directly address and conform to the criteria as provided. With regard to notability at large, there is verifiable, objective evidence from independent sources regarding the subject's receipt of attention, not all of which are cited within the article, but I have listed below. Note that these sources also meet the criteria for independent and verifiable sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions#Lots_of_sources

'Buzzfeed' Articles by Iman Sheikh 

 https://www.buzzfeed.com/imaansheikh/mayamma
 https://www.buzzfeed.com/imaansheikh/rainbow-revolution

'The News Minute' article by Keerti Prakasam 

 http://www.thenewsminute.com/lives/755

Article in premier Indian newspaper 'The Hindu' by Neeraja Murthy 

  http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/theatre/an-evening-with-mayamma-and-more-was-a-show-with-spirit-and-spunk/article7698405.ece

Feature in 'Fifty Shades of Gay' (Campaign for equal rights for all Indians) 

  http://fiftyshadesofgay.co.in/meet-indias-first-drag-queen-from-kerala-mayamma/

Article on 'Linked In' by Shubham Mehrothra, Editor in Chief & Filmmaker 

  https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/meet-indias-first-drag-queen-sultry-fabulous-mayamma-mehrotra

A photo essay in 'Behance' (A e-exhibit space for creative work) by Sumalika VJ 

  https://www.behance.net/gallery/37647015/-Shoot-for-Maya-the-Drag-Queen-

'Storypick' article by Disha Seth 

  http://www.storypick.com/break-for-freedom/

'Bangalore Mirror' column by Vidya Iyengar 

  http://www.bangaloremirror.com/columns/sunday-read/A-lesson-in-gender-thats-not-a-drag/articleshow/46413718.cms

Ajio Online Store feature story 

  https://www.ajio.com/c/indieviduality

Lastly, there is more that can be written about the subject directly from the independent and verifiable sources and notable events that the subject has been part of. In other words, there is scope for the article to be built further.

Comment by Article creator: shortindiangirl (Talk) 10:20, 5 October 2016 (UTC)Shortindiangirl (talk) 10:23, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Shortindiangirl: I've stricken-through your double !vote. Every person is allowed to !vote only once. You can however add as many comments you want. Also note that the word vote doesn't mean in here head-counting rather argument based on policy and guidelines with an opinion on keep/delete (we distinguish argument based vote by adding an exclamation mark before it, as !vote.) Anup [Talk] 17:50, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.facebook.com/MayaTheDragQueen/
  2. ^ https://www.instagram.com/mayathedragqueen/?hl=en
Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:18, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:18, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Subject has significant coverage in multiple secondary, independent and reliable sources, thus qualifies for inclusion per WP:GNG. I re-wrote the article and added few refs to it that substantiates my !keep argument. Anup [Talk] 17:50, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Anupmehra: Thank you. I am new to this, so didn't realize that my response comment meant a double vote. I simply intended to respond to AKS.9955 that I continued to disagree and continued to vote to Keep the article based on my comments included as part of that segment. I did read WP:PG already, and yes, I understand that the final outcome is not based on votes, but on the credibility of the argument made one way or another. Thank you for your contribution to this discussion and to the article itself.

shortindiangirl [Talk] 18:46, 8 October 2016 (UTC) Shortindiangirl (talk) 18:46, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please talk a look at the sources listed in the article and check it against our GNG criteria? Anup [Talk] 04:33, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
    1. Murthy, Neeraja (2015-09-28). "Mayamma rocks the city". The Hindu. Archived from the original on 2016-10-23. Retrieved 2016-10-23.

      The article notes:

      It was Saturday night fever at Lamakaan as ‘Mayamma’ entered the scene with the number ‘Endaro Mahaanubhavulu’ from the recent movie Bhale Bhale Magaadivoy.

      As the audience sat glued to their seats, drag queen Mayamma casts her spell with a riveting performance. She is joined by exotic belly dancer Lexi dancing the night away in high heels. ‘An evening with Mayamma and more’ organised by Queer Collective India’s Hyderabad chapter showcased the queer talent with a lot of spirit and spunk. The evening also saw four skits by Hyderabad-based artistes and a stand-up comedy show by Mumbai-based Naveen Noronha.

      A few hours before the show, over hot chai and samosas, Alex Mathew and Alex Victor share their stories, their journey in transforming into Mayamma and Lexi respectively. “I am a man on the street and woman on stage,” declares Alex Mathew. He was a singer and theatre actor who felt stagnated as a performer. “I even performed in Lamakaan in 2012. I was seeking inspiration and doing research to be a performer with a difference,” he states. That’s when his focus shifted to being a drag performer. Creating a character, being like a woman and singing and acting like a woman on stage followed and Mayamma was born; a spirited woman looking luminous in her Kerala saris, complete with a Mallu accent.

    2. Iyengar, Vidya (2015-02-28). "A lesson in gender that's not a drag". Bangalore Mirror. Archived from the original on 2016-10-23. Retrieved 2016-10-23.

      The article notes:

      Alex Mathew is a tall and unassuming 26-year old who works for a human rights and youth leadership NGO through the week. But every now and then, this unremarkable young man transforms into Mayamma, a drag queen who dresses in Kerala-style sarees and regales audiences with song-dance-and-improv comedy routines. Concerned about issues such as individualism, gender equality and feminism, Mayamma is Mathew's way of raising awareness about gender issues and "self-expression through entertainment".

      Speaking of the genesis of his flashy alter ego, Mathew, who moved to Bengaluru from Hyderabad in December 2012 talks about how he was often rejected by theatre production companies because of his Malayali accent. "I decided to turn the adversity to my advantage. I had come across Dileep-starrer Mayamohini (a Malayalam film where the star dresses in drag) and the Hollywood film Mrs Doubtfire; I decided to develop Mayamma's character based on these films," Mathew says. For him, drag is a creative outlet and a way to make a cultural statement. For the first performance in Humming Tree in Indirangar in September, Mathew wore a sari with minimal make up.

    3. Prakasam, Keerthi (2015-03-21). "Meet Mayamma - The Drag Queen with a Malayali twist". The News Minute. Archived from the original on 2016-10-23. Retrieved 2016-10-23.

      The article notes:

      Alex Mathew, the man who is behind the stage name "Mayamma", says she stands for "individualism, gender equality and feminism". Twenty six year old Alex hopes to address such issues vocally with his onstage female alter ego.

      Alex, unlike Mayamma is from Kochi, Kerala. He is right now working with The Gandhi Foundation, and is an MBA holder. Though Alex was part of many theatre activities, he knew that he wasn't content.

      Mayamma was born around September last year. She got the name because 'I liked the idea of being the mother of illusions", he says. The initial idea was a series of Youtube videos as Mayamma. "But before all that I started performing, so far in Bangalore. It is a good going so far, the audience like the 'Malayali' thing I throw in by saying 'Chechi and Chetta, Kutties and Kuttans'".

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Mayamma to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 04:58, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz talk 22:54, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep Has just about enough non-routine coverage to pass WP:GNG — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnTombs48 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 24 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Not notable Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:37, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: The re-written article also claims no notability. Thanks to tabloids our article is now full of trivia. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:18, 26 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete:Even,the re-written article fails to assert any notability.I may be wrong but I think that editors should understand mentions in national newspapers do not automatically warrant someone an article in WIKIPEDIA.It is the duty and work of the press/media to highlight all those who stand for a change.But that does not confer upon them the status of being notable until their contributions ( not just the fact-that they have dared too stand for a change) have actually managed to secure the limelight!Aru@baska❯❯❯ Vanguard 12:49, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • WP:GNG disagrees with this interpretation. In what ways are the sources identified not significant, reliable, and independent? Lankiveil (speak to me) 13:17, 29 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Lankiveil (talk · contribs), editors at AfD now frequently disregard and significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources and WP:GNG. This AfD is one example of this. It is unclear how The Hindu, the Bangalore Mirror, and The News Minute are "tabloids" as one editor mentioned above. Instead of relying on reliable sources, they are instead basing their opinion on whether they personally feel a subject is notable.

        It is clear systemic bias if Mayamma, an Indian gay rights activist and drag queen, is deleted because editors personally feel she is non-notable even though she clearly passes Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline based on the significant coverage in reliable sources.

        Cunard (talk) 06:23, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

        • We are on the same page here I think. A lot of the statements here are WP:JNN and will be treated as such by the closing admin. This one at least attempts to make an argument from policy, even though the interpretation is not correct, which is why I chose to respond to it. Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:57, 2 November 2016 (UTC).[reply]
  • Delete -- the re-written article, while neutral in tone, fails to establish any notability for the subject. An unremarkable individual and reads like a vanity page (because of lack of notability). K.e.coffman (talk) 03:05, 29 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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