Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of serving heads of state and government that have visited Israel during the 2023 Israel–Hamas War

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to International reactions to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war. This seems to be the preferred Merge target article. But there isn't any prohibition about Merging content to more than one article as long as there is attribution. Liz Read! Talk! 06:29, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of serving heads of state and government that have visited Israel during the 2023 Israel–Hamas War[edit]

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List of serving heads of state and government that have visited Israel during the 2023 Israel–Hamas War (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This list is not obviously notable and does not readily appear to fulfil the most basic tenet of WP:NLIST, i.e.: "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources". Here, there is little to no overlap in the sourcing, so little to no evidence that these visits have been widely discussed in sources as a standalone notable group of events. Instead it is more a collection of niche news events. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:56, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, Israel, and Palestine. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:56, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There's ample discussion of the topic of heads of state/government visiting Israel during the war as "solidarity visits", such as [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. In addition, the Wall Street Journal has a tracker for all the foreign leaders who have visited Israel during the war: [6]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Longhornsg (talk • contribs) 06:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The WSJ is one good example of some aggregation on the subject, but alone insufficient, just as one good source is insufficient for any page. The rest is pretty ropey and trivial news cycle stuff. Yes, the odd visit story mentions a previous visit, but that's not really comprehensively discussing the visits as a group; more joining the dots. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:44, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - technically it meets the notability criteria because there has been a large amount of press chatter about it. Far more than in the ordinary run of things. I can't say I like it, though. Next we will have a list of leaders who have signed a book of condolence, etc. JMWt (talk) 06:46, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to 2023 Israel–Hamas war#Visits by foreign leaders per nom and WP:NOTNEWS. There may be a handful of articles covering these visits collectively, but it's far too early to say whether they have enduring notability as an independent set. Even if they do, notability doesn't mean we have to have a standalone page and it seems far more natural to cover this within the article on the war (or if that gets too long, a spinoff like international reactions to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war). I'm not sure there's that much to merge—foreign visits are already covered in the parent article, and I prefer the prose format there to this very short list—but that's for editors of the merge target to decide. – Joe (talk) 06:55, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure it really counts as "news" in the sense of WP:NOTNEWS. Of course we can't predict future history books, but it seems likely that the actions of world leaders to this conflict will be considered to have lasting resonance in the future. News might be a page describing day to day statements by the politicians etc. JMWt (talk) 07:16, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    All of the cited sources are literally news reports. – Joe (talk) 07:33, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Actions, yes; visits, not so much. The Middle East tour by Blinken was probably actually more notable and impactful (and more discussed) than some of entries here of discernably less geopolitical import. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:37, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Numerous sources indicate that these visits are 'solidarity visits', similar to when leaders visited Ukraine at the onset of the Russian invasion. The last time so many leaders visited Israel in such a short time was during the funeral of Shimon Peres. The last time the British Prime Minister visited Israel was more than 10 years ago. Haaretz, refers to it as the 'Ukraine Syndrome'. Orwell1 (talk) 11:37, 27 October 2023 (UTC) Striking non-EC editor ineligible to participate in this internal discussion, per WP:ARBPIA restrictions. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:57, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Okay, but why does that mean we should have a standalone list of them? – Joe (talk) 12:12, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Because it is notable and many leaders have already done it, including three of the superpower leaders (US, UK, and France). Visiting a state at a state of war involves risks. During the visit, the German Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, had to take cover in a bomb shelter as a missile alarm sounded. Additionally, when he was about to take off, another rocket alarm went off, leading all German officials to lie face down on the floor with their hands over their heads. These visits are not regular visits. Orwell1 (talk) 12:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC) Striking non-EC editor ineligible to participate in this internal discussion, per WP:ARBPIA restrictions. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:57, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    There exist only two other extant "List of serving heads of state and government ..."-style articles in the past, and both are for the Ukraine war. [7][8] There are two possible conclusions to be drawn from this, since political visits have always existed and are not a novel thing: 1) such content was duly ignored in the past as the news cycle-fed churnalistic dross that it is and this content type has only reared its ugly head with the massive over-fixation on Ukraine and now Gaza. 2) this is super relevant and notable content and this encyclopedia has been missing a massive trick in not snapping up all the news re: all the various visits by foreign heads of state in the past wars of history. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:00, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The media's intense focus on Gaza Wars didn't begin with the current conflict; all previous wars received significant media coverage. However, in no previous Gaza war have we seen so many leaders visiting Israel to express their solidarity. In the 2008-2009 Gaza War, only President Nicolas Sarkozy visited Israel, and that was long before Tel Aviv and Jerusalem were within the war zone (as rocket attacks on these cities began only in 2012). Sarkozy's visit at that time was primarily aimed at promoting a truce between the conflicting parties rather than showing solidarity with Israel.
    Similarly, during the subsequent Gaza War of 2014, which was the deadliest until this current conflict, no other world leaders or heads of state visited Israel, except for Ban Ki-moon, who served as the UN Secretary-General. Ban Ki-moon's visit was also focused on promoting a truce, rather than taking a stand with Israel.
    In this war, things are indeed different. The number of leaders who have already come to Israel is much higher, and their primary purpose in visiting is to express their solidarity. This is a significant departure from previous wars. Orwell1 (talk) 14:00, 27 October 2023 (UTC) Striking non-EC editor ineligible to participate in this internal discussion, per WP:ARBPIA restrictions. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:57, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Longhornsg. Loksmythe (talk) 15:51, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge as suggested seems ok. For what this is, we can just cut and paste the chart into the article and not lose anything, there is no sort of discussion going on around why these are notable enough to warrant an article. Oaktree b (talk) 15:58, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
keep I think that a list of visiting heads of state and government is quite the contrary of "not notable. Furthermore, evidently one can find ample sources in reference to each visiting head of state. I'm certain a quick google search will find you dozens of articles from the most respected to the least respected News regarding the visit of US president Joe Biden, French President Macron, British PM Sunak, EU president... etc.
Indeed, this actually seems to be an interesting method of the West showing solidarity with its allies, in similar fashion to visits to Ukraine following the Russian invasion.
Indeed there is such a Wikipedia article: List of serving heads of state and government that have visited Ukraine during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Thus this article can refer and build up from that article. This is not the first time such an article has been created.
Furthermore there are also sources that directly refer to list of leaders, and there are still leaders visiting and thus this article has potential for growth. The Czech and Austrian leaders visited recently and thus topic grows... [9] (Source regarding Czech and Austrian leaders) Homerethegreat (talk) 19:20, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to International reactions to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, per feedback. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:14, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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