Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of deadpan comedians

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:26, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of deadpan comedians[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

We don't have a list for any other style of comedian. A category version was previously deleted. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 23:11, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 23:11, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is List of stand-up comedians. I'm not saying it's a style of comedy, but I'm sure there's a distinction between comedians who do stand-up and those that don't. Conyo14 (talk) 23:25, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also a List of musical comedians. pburka (talk) 01:08, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – A valid rationale for deletion has not been presented. It is inconsequential whether or not other similar articles exist. It is inconsequential that the category was deleted, because categories cannot be referenced. Articles can. The scope of the article exists as a list of comedians "who have used deadpan as a part of their repertoire"; it is not a list of comedians that only use deadpan techniques. This is a well-sourced list that also meets WP:LISTN, as per sources such as

Getting The Joke - The Art of Stand-up Comedy
CBR (About us page)

– North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Incredibly vague inclusion criterion. That someone can find a source that mentions that "actor X gave a deadpan performance in film Y" is no basis for a list. If you have to do such gymnastics to define inclusion criteria in a way that appears to differ from the article title, something is seriously wrong.
Of the two refs presented above, the first only goes for notability of deadpan itself (which has an article already, and rightly so). And the second is a listicle. Listicles. Don't. Count. They're low-effort churn meant to drive clicks and that's it. William Shatner hosted SNL once and gave a deadpan delivery in one skit (not to mention Airplane II). Should he be on this list? Is he even a comedian? Where's the line? 35.139.154.158 (talk) 16:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unless this is restricted Keep but restrict to people who are noted as deadpan comedians, e.g. Steven Wright and Bob Newhart. Who in their wildest dreams even connects someone like Bea Arthur with being one? Satisfies WP:NLIST because they are discussed as a group, e.g. here, deadpan comedy actors. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:34, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Newhart is the very personification of deadpan. That's how he delivered his jokes on stage, and that's how his television characters were played. — Maile (talk) 02:17, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Deadpan should be expanded to include examples of significant comedians well known for their deadpan style, but a list of comedians who have just had that term used in one source to describe them, or a particular performance, is not sufficient for selection criteria. Deadpan is an important skill that any good comedian would be able to use "as a part of their repertoire", and it's fairly subjective to attempt to list who is a deadpan comedian in particular. Ben Stein or those Clarityfiend listed should be included in the main article as specialists in this, but many of those listed I would not generally describe as deadpan comedians, even if they are talented enough to have made good use of the style in some instances. Reywas92^Talk 23:32, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- ~~Delete~~ Merge Per above. Move some of the content to Deadpan and preserve as much of of the editors' hard work as is appropraite: That being only comediens whose sources refer to them as deadpan explicitly. I observe that not all of the sources given in the present article contain the word "deadpan." The determination of whether a comedian is subjective, of course, but it should not be Wikieditors who draw that conclusion without that confusion explicitly backed up in a published source. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:49, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Just a point about the CC/GFDL licenses: this suggestion needs to be a merge !vote, because history needs to be kept for attribution. —siro χ o 04:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Merge, then. Darkfrog24 (talk) 23:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:12, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. Deadpan is already short enough to contain the entire list, and I do agree that we need to exercise a bit less editorial decision making on who to include, and instead improve our selection criteria likely narrowing the list. In absense of merge consensus, keep per NLIST (here's another source for that [1]) and in the spirit of WP:PRESERVE / WP:5P3 —siro χ o 05:12, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – I think "stand up comedy" is more inclusive, in that it's any style of comedy where the lone performer is addressing a live audience. "Deadpan" can be standup, but is it's own genre therein. Jack Benny is the perfect example, where he would stand in front of an audience without cracking a smile, while telling the audience some ridiculous story. Same thing with George Burns, although not necessarily referred to that way. In every show, he would step towards the camera and tell the audience some odd-ball story while smoking his cigar. — Maile (talk) 00:50, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still divided among those wanting to Keep, Delete or Merge. Unless there is a great influx of participants to this discussion, it looks like at least some of the information in this article will be preserved in some context.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.