Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joever

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election#Debate aftermath. Clear consensus not to leave the page in place, and no valid opposition to turning into a redirect for what may be a popular search term. Owen× ☎ 21:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joever

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The article ~~only contains one reliable secondary source~~ [Ammendment: The Forbes source was written by a contributor] contains no reliable secondary sources that talk about the word "joever". The rest are sources that use the word in their headlines. This fails the general notability criteria because the topic does not have 1) signifcant coverage in 2) secondary sources. The only other coverage I could find in reliable sources is trivial mentions. ArcticSeeress (talk) 15:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Wiktionary. All coverage is trivial, and we’re not off to a good start when the second paragraph is WP:FORBESCON.

-1ctinus📝🗨 16:21, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did not realize that the Forbes article was unreliable; I will ammend my opening statement. That brings the significant coverage in reliable secondary sources down to zero. ArcticSeeress (talk) 16:45, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics and United States of America. Shellwood (talk) 18:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, not a notable neologism/meme. Unclear if anything would need to be merged to paragraph at Withdrawal_of_Joe_Biden_from_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election#Debate_aftermath. Reywas92^Talk 20:12, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for reasons stated above. As it stands, the cultural significance of the meme is too small and is better left as a minor cultural note on Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election, Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign, and Let's Go Brandon or Sleepy Joe (nickname). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oganguly (talk • contribs) 21:08, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to wikt:Joever, or alternatively to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election. Nearly no secondary coverage meeting WP:NEO. The "Background" section isn't about the term, and the sources in the "Growth and use in media" section are trivial mentions, which basically use the word without much (or any) discussion of it. The one in-depth source is from WP:FORBESCON. hinnk (talk) 21:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Wiktionary: No evidence reliable secondary WP:SIGCOV for this portmanteau to warrant it's own article. IceBergYYC (talk) 21:56, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/redirect to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election#Debate aftermath since there's already existing content written about the meme in that section. Some1 (talk) 23:04, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election#Debate aftermath and merge a few sentences of this article to a new subsection there. The phrase itself has seen a fair amount of use both on social media and in news headlines, but it's fairly self-explanatory and there hasn't been a lot of discussion of it. Here's what I found in mostly-reliable sources.

NYTimes: "Tina Wargo, 31, learned of the shake-up from a text inviting her to a party. “It’s Joever,” read the event name, said Ms. Wargo, who lives in Brooklyn and works for a theater ticketing company. She initially thought it was a joke, but was surprised to learn otherwise after seeing posts from Taylor Swift-related accounts on X using the same pun."
Teen Vogue uses the phrase and embeds tweets with the meme
CNET in a human-written article discusses usage of the term
Austin American-Statesman mentions the phrase and embeds a tweet with it. Djkauffman (talk) 23:10, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good on you for getting these. I honestly feel like if we give it a year, a few communications scholars will have written articles about it and then it'll be worthy of a C-Class article. Ornov Ganguly TALK 01:40, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election. This probably isn't a subject deserving of an article on its own, but the phrase is mentioned in the withdrawal article as an element of the movement to get Biden to drop out. Di (they-them) (talk) 00:54, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The content there might be original research. While this is related to the destination of a potential redirect location, I'd rather not crowd the discussion here, so I've made a comment on that article's talk page. ArcticSeeress (talk) 01:32, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Generation Z slang since it's a meme phrase that is used by gen z people GodzillamanRor (talk) 03:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Notable because there is coverage in 3 reliable secondary sources after searching Google News:

https://www.vulture.com/article/joe-biden-drops-out-2024-race-meme-roundup.html
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/its-joever-internets-memeful-goodbye-as-biden-drops-out-of-race/articleshow/111914547.cms
https://www.vulture.com/article/biden-drops-out-2024-twitter-meme-accounts.html

142.113.140.146 (talk) 03:43, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're forgetting that sources also have to be significant coverage, not just a passing use of it... Reywas92^Talk 03:51, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is considered acceptable WP:SIGCOV of this meme? A "book-length history" is not expected to exist. I don't think my sources look like "newspaper article about Bill Clinton, ... part of a jazz band called Three Blind Mice ... a trivial mention of that band" because they focus on the meme topic specifically. I also added 7 more sources (mostly reliable but some unlisted at RSP but found in Special:LinkSearch) with coverage ranging from the overall meme to several individual aspects of the meme. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 05:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

delete per WP:NOTNEWS. A neologism/meme that had a half-life of maybe a week. Mangoe (talk) 04:07, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is hard to support WP:NOTNEWS, WP:NOTNEO, or WP:NTEMP claims that it has a half-life of maybe a week when the meme is from 2023, and therefore it clearly isn't "neo" and has been ongoing for more than 1 year. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 05:33, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I removed all the OR and trivial uses. The result is four remaining paragraphs of sources specifically mentioning and analyzing the meme. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 07:02, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete doesn't belong on Wikipedia for a number reasons already written. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:25, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect or delete. Wikipedia is not Know Your Meme, nor a dictionary. Geschichte (talk) 08:21, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election#Debate aftermath, as it's mentioned in numerous sources as a meme related to the situation, but it doesn't have notability for a standalone page. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election. I added the word "Joever" to the article with an adequately-sourced paragraph of information. That's all the word needs. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 16:05, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This is simply wholly unsuitable content for an encyclopaedia. Really don't have much more to add. AusLondonder (talk) 17:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. It's more self-explanatory than phrases like You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?, which is why there aren't many secondary sources explaining it (akin to how there aren't many articles explaining what a jam sandwich is); they rather just use and discuss the term without explicit explanation. However, it's kind of unclear at the moment if it fulfils WP:NSUSTAINED. Oeoi (talk) 22:36, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/redirect to Withdrawal of Joe Biden from the 2024 United States presidential election#Debate aftermath As the author who has contributed the most to the article, I would recommend that the majority of the information I added to this article be consolidated to the aforementioned page. I will add it myself now!BakedintheHole (talk) 23:32, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep as notable for Joe and Biden. It's over + Joe = Joever. It's so clever. PuppyMonkey (talk) 00:24, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete — Not independently notable; its coverage is largely dictated by Biden's withdrawal. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 04:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect it was funny seeing this get an article but I really don't think it should be kept. It is a random meme that has never had the spotlight except for a few days, and is assured to not be coming back to it after Biden's withdrawal. Super Ψ Dro 09:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This is an encyclopedia, not KnowYourMeme.com J6he (talk) 22:38, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete, merge, partially notable but I don't think this warrants it's own article. "Joever" has its place on Wikipedia as a section in the Biden withdrawal page. Personisinsterest (talk) 23:10, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Since this discussion was started the number of reliable secondary coverage has increased, though the article is still badly written. (lead mentions a resurgence, then talks about the withdrawal and debate as background, then mentions the meme existed in 2023. Looking at Google Trends, it began in late 2022, and reached a temporary peak in Mid 2023 before the current peak. It is in no way related to his debate and withdrawal but a more general pessimistic outlook regarding his presidency and health. It might even have started with the 2022 midterms, which some expected to be a red wave.) Plenty of fads surrounding US Presidents have dedicated articles and I see no reason which this one in particular should not exist. — jonas (talk) 00:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect probably not enough for a full encyclopedia article Bluethricecreamman (talk) 14:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/redirect to the withdrawal article, this isn't enough to support its own article and can perfectly fit in a small section over there. Yeoutie (talk) 18:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nom. Additionally, the coverage and usage that we do have doesn't appear to be sustained or beyond when he pulled out from the election. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.