Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jefferey Carp

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Withdrawn by nominator. – Ammarpad (talk) 17:38, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jefferey Carp[edit]

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Also nominating the following related page because it is a content fork of the above:

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Played on notable albums/songs, but seems to lack the kind of sourcing to support meeting any of the WP:MUSICBIO criteria nor can I find reliable enough sourcing for GNG. No obvious redirect target though perhaps one can be found? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:11, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 19:40, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 19:40, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Someone made a bunch of improvements, please double check. I believe it now fits the criteria to keep BluesmanRobert38 (talk) 00:34, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BluesmanRobert38 someone did improve the quality of the references but it doesn't change my thinking because there is no new reference included. I'm guessing that you think it should be kept? If so you should probably say it. The way to normally do that is to go
* '''Keep''' <reason why you think it should be kept>
If you don't say anything it could get deleted by default since no one has commented.Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Since he died in 1973, there is not going to be much references. I think we should make an exception as he seems to be a notable figure of his time. Peter303x (talk) 16:22, 21 March 2019 (UTC) 20240614215911[reply]
Keep. The page has been improved to the point there is enough sources. It was nominated for deletion within 24 hours of posting before I got around to adding sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BluesmanRobert38 (talk • contribs) 23:19, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I've added the article Jeffrey Carp to this nomination. "Jeffrey" seems to be the correct spelling, but that article is a copy-paste by User:Karl Twist of The 2019-03-19 09:20:43 version of the article Jefferey Carp started by User:BluesmanRobert38. It's then been edited further by Karl Twist and others with longer text and more sources, but without the AfD notice and without the required attribution. It's going to require a history merge, I think. @Karl Twist: Why did you copy-paste this article from one name to the other? It appears to be Wikipedia:Content forking. --Closeapple (talk) 06:42, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Reply to Closeapple. I haven't forked anything. Well, not intentionally. Due to the spelling of his name being wrong, I wasn't going to work on the article and fix it better when that wasn't the correct spelling of his name. I credited BluesmanRobert38 as the originator. Yes, it is spelt that way occasionally but his name is correctly spelt as Jeffrey. That way people can see the spelling and search correctly. I was going to redirect it to the new page. I wanted to redirect the AFD as well but couldn't work out how to do that and thought best leave it alone. Anyway the article here has been redirected. Karl Twist (talk) 11:23, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Needs more discussion of the sources; can someone please present WP:THREE sources that show significant coverage of the subject?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:44, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from nom: I'm not unsympathetic to the idea that he's older and so there might be offline sources. So far no one has suggested what those sources might be. And every source we have so far is a 1 sentence mention of him. That's it. He played Harmonica. For a lot of good bands and popular albums. Absent someone taking note of him we should not create a biography where reliable sources - not even specialized ones like the Harmonica Encyclopedia with its 1 sentence entry) have not. In this case we literally have 18 sources of 1 sentence each. If we had 1 source of 18 sentences I'd have never even thought of nominating it for deletion. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 04:01, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep ~~Delete~~ – I really want this to be notable, but after a lot of searching various sources I cannot find anything that meets our standards for inclusion. There are plenty of one-line mentions, a few even in reliable sources, but nothing that provides the sort of in-depth coverage we need to write a half-decent article. Bradv🍁 04:19, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Changing to keep based on the sources and analysis by RebeccaGreen. This is the kind of coverage I was trying to find – while it's not in-depth, it also is not trivial, and there is enough of it to satisfy BASIC. Thank you. Bradv🍁 13:55, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Meets WP:GNG. subject is notable - article will be developed further. Lubbad85 (talk) 14:07, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lubbad85 What is the significant coverage you're seeing that meets the definition of GNG (bullet point 1)? I ask not to badger you but because I would like to think he is notable. From what I've seen coverage is all nearly parallel to the Three Blind Mice example. Am I missing a source? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:39, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep We now seem to have "Jefferey Carp" redirected to "Jeffrey Carp", which at least means we're only looking at one page. I have found several articles about the recordings he was part of. One from 2003 in the Edmonton Journal, about The London Howlin' Wolf Sessions, says "the late Jeffrey Carp provided fireballs of musical punctuation via his blistering shots on harmonica." [1] A 1976 article in the San Francisco Examiner about producer Norman Dayron says "Dayron called harmonica player Jeff Carp "the most important talent I've worked with." Carp drowned in a boating accident at age 19 before Dayron could complete his first album for Capital Records, but Dayron did use the young harp blower on a number of sessions including the "Fathers and Sons" LP and Chuck Berry's "Tulane"." [2] (The latter does not seem to be in the article yet.) There's also a short review in 1970 of The Soulful Strings which mentions "some fine work on harmonica by Jeff Carp" [3]. A review of a live performance by Earl Hooker in the San Francisco Examiner in 1969 (different reviewer from the 1976 article) says "Mouth harpist Jeff Carp out of the Sam Lay Band of Chicago, is magnificent - for my money better than Paul Butterfield (more musical, more inventive)" [4]. There are other, longer reviews, of Muddy Waters' "Fathers and Sons" which just mentions "Jeff Carp on chromatic harp" [5], and of Earl Hooker "Don't Have to Worry" which has "Jeff Carp, mouthharp" [6] - at least useful for verifying those appearances.

Of the sources in the article already, it seems to me that the most reliable are: the Rolling Stone review of Fathers and Sons which includes "By the way, while we’re talking about harmonica playing, there’s superlative chromatic work by Jeff Carp (formerly with Sam Lay, lately working with Earl Hooker) all the way through “All Aboard,” acting as a sort of continue to Muddy’s singing and Paul’s rhythmic interjections, on regular harmonica, on the other channel. But on this track it’s Jeff’s show, and he does a hell of a job." Also the book Earl Hooker, Blues Master which writes about Carp on pages 269-271 and 280 (and gives his middle initial); and the book Moanin' at Midnight: The Life and Times of Howlin' Wolf which writes about Carp on 5 pages, of which we only see 3 snippets online, one of which calls him "Chicago harp wizard Jeffrey Carp".

I would say that the sources I have found, and these 3 sources in the article, meet the WP:BASIC criterion "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". These sources are definitely not trivial - it's clear that he was extremely talented, and those reviews can be included in the article, with the references supporting the information about the artists he played with and albums he appeared on. RebeccaGreen (talk) 13:17, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks RebeccaGreen for this analysis. Your combination does make a compelling BASIC argument and so I have struck my nomination and change to keep so that this may be closed. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:15, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.