Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/François Sakama

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 00:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

François Sakama

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:03, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Oceania. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:03, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I've added a few refs, and there's plenty more on the Vanuatu Daily Post.--IdiotSavant (talk) 00:08, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:10, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Soft Delete- Couldn't find sources to defend the article, all what my Google search brought was statistics.Epcc12345 (talk) 10:41, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 00:10, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Not one of my strongest keeps as the coverage isn't crystal clear, but there's a surprising amount of coverage of him for a sports stub article, especially in local Vanuatu papers. The fact he scored a few goals internationally means he was mentioned in some international press as well. An odd keepable sports stub. SportingFlyer T·C 12:14, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SportingFlyer, what local coverage are you seeing?? Everything I found was of the brief "routine announcement followed by quotes from the subject" type. JoelleJay (talk) 23:17, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I searched the Vanuatu papers directly. It was awhile back now and I don't have time to find it right now - just checking my pings. There's no "feature article" on him but that's also not really typical of the news there? SportingFlyer T·C 12:44, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SportingFlyer, I also looked at Vanuatu papers and did not see anything that rose above routine sports reporting and trivial mentions. Of course he will show up in a ton of articles--his name will be listed as the coach in every single routine match recap and he will be quoted in every press release by the team. It shouldn't matter what the standard is for Vanuatu news; either he receives SIGCOV in multiple independent avenues or he doesn't. And NSPORT still requires that a SIGCOV source be cited in the article -- if one can't be found, then the article shouldn't exist. JoelleJay (talk) 17:28, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Eh. I think [1] is at least arguable. SportingFlyer T·C 22:29, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SportingFlyer, that's the one I quoted below. I translated the Bislama and all but the introductory sentence is actually quotes or repetition of what one of the two players says. There is no independent SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 22:39, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, the non-bolded text in what I quoted below is not independent coverage; it's all just quotes without quotation marks. JoelleJay (talk) 22:53, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but I still think that's generally fine. As a whole, especially when you combine some of the international coverage, there's a lot of coverage, and he did play at a high level for the region. This isn't one of those cricketers where we're making the SNG do all the work. It's obviously not coverage of an English Premier League standard but there's more than enough over a long period of time to show notability and enough there to write a stub article. SportingFlyer T·C 10:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You consider a single sentence SIGCOV??? And what international coverage? GNG requires each source to contain SIGCOV, be independent, and be secondary; where are those sources? JoelleJay (talk) 17:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per above. Clearly sigfinicafnt figure isn Vanuatuan football with extensive career and defiantly has offline sources as well. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 11:03, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:11, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I concur with Das osmnezz - this has potential. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 06:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. ????? There are two independent sources in the article. In the first, from Vanuatu Post, the only independent coverage is the bolded portion:

Yesterday morning, two Amicale FC midfield strikers, Fenedy Masauvakalo and Francois Sakama, left for a trial with AS Central Sport in Tahiti.

non-independent content from source

[The two players] said that they would make Vanuatu proud and bring a good name to Vanuatu, the future road from Vanuatu to Tahiti is the door to France, which will be easier. [direct quote from Masauvakalo] His colleague, Sakama, who never thought he'd make trials outside his country, said [quote from Sakama]. Sakama said he looks forward to going to Tahiti and will not forget to thank the man who made it possible, [quote]. [statement from president of PVFA]

The RNZ.co.nz is a passing mention in a routine match report. Nowhere remotely close to SIGCOV!!! JoelleJay (talk) 23:11, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

~~Weak~~ delete - Aside from the VDP article mentioned above, there is very little coverage that is independent of the subject or that goes in-depth. I found this 2009–10 OFC Champions League match preview in The National (Papua New Guinea) that mentions Sakama briefly, but it's not enough to be SIGCOV. It appears that Sakama had a career in Vanuatu club football that was noticed to some extent, but I just don't see enough to indicate the article meets our guidelines. Jogurney (talk) 17:46, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Updating my !vote to regular delete, as I was struggling with the number of Bislama-language hits at dailypost.vu that I couldn't machine translate to English. However, I found a passable translator at bislama.org, and every VDP article I've checked is the same kind of match preview/match report with a quote or two from Sakama but nothing in-depth. I'm confident now that this article fails the GNG. Jogurney (talk) 18:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete per Jgourney and JoelleJay's source analysis. Willing to reconsider if more sigcov is identified, so please ping me. Unfortunately, what I have seen so far does not quite reach the level of GNG. Frank Anchor 14:55, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.