Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Etienne Mermer

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Despite a relatively even vote count, no rebuttal was made to the source analyses which clearly undermine arguments of notability. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 00:03, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Etienne Mermer

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:54, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Oceania. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:54, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Question: has the nominator fulfilled WP:BEFORE? Jack4576 (talk) 05:17, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:36, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I've added a few sources, and as with the rest of tonight's deletions, there are plenty on the Vanuatu Daily Post in Bismali for the football fans to go through.--IdiotSavant (talk) 10:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- [1] - Is routine coverage
- [2] - Passable
- [3] - Routine coverage
- [4] and [5] mentioned once in each article and is routine coverage
One source is not enough to satisfy WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], there is more in the google search.[11], Regards. Govvy (talk) 10:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lets see, the first two are interviews with the subject and therefore are primary sources. The third and fifth sources mentions the subject once and therefore it fails WP:SIGCOV. The fourth source mentions the subject twice and is routine. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:13, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Interviews are not 'primary'. Giant Snowman 18:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes they are! "The general rule is that any statements made by interviewees about themselves, their activities, or anything they are connected to is considered to have come from a primary source and is also non-independent material. " Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:26, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From OR:
For definitions of primary sources:
The University of Nevada, Reno Libraries define primary sources as providing "an inside view of a particular event". They offer as examples: original documents, such as [...] interviews, [...]"
Duke University Libraries offers this definition: "A primary source is a first-hand account of an event. Primary sources may include [...] interviews, [...]"
JoelleJay (talk) 23:26, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per above. Clearly was significant figure and topic of interest in Vanuatu football. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 15:43, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 18:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The sources above are routine, trivial, primary, and/or non-independent. The Daily Post piece mentioned as "passable" above by Sportsfan is three trivial sentences in a routine press release from Vanuatu Football so fails SIGCOV, routine, and independence N. The youtube interviews are obviously primary and non-independent (WP:OR explicitly includes interviews among examples of primary sources) and so do not count, and anyway they're by the governing football org (OFC) and the government sports ministry so are automatically ineligible to count towards GNG N (and that goes for the other OFC article too). Oceania Football Center is a WordPress blog N. The Solomon Star source is a passing mention + quote N. Nothing approaching SIGCOV here. JoelleJay (talk) 23:10, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:26, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your nomination is already considered a “delete” vote. Striking double-vote. Frank Anchor 03:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is what 2 hours of sleep does, sorry for the confusion! Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 12:49, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, thanks! Frank Anchor 13:50, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep there is enough non-trivial, non-interview coverage through the provided refs to pass WP:NBIO, which states If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. Frank Anchor 03:13, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources have SIGCOV, as required by NSPORT? Which even have non-routine, non-trivial coverage in SIRS? The only ones that are even independent are a couple of the Daily Post pieces and the Solomon Star source. This is the entirety of the coverage of him:

Vanuatu U23 football coach, Etienne Mermer, stood by his players and congratulated them for reaching the semi-final of the OFC Men’s Olympic qualifiers.[12]

[press release from Vanuatu Football][13]

with Vanuatu coach Etienne Mermer and coach Leo Moli putting in Azariah Soromon at number minute. (+quotes)[14]

The Vanuatu Football Federation (VFF) has confirmed that Assistant U20 coach Etienne Mermer will not join the management team of the U20 squad of Vanuatu where he stayed for the World Cup in Korea in May. [...] Mermer's Thomas and Kaltak were part of the U20 squad that defeated the Solomon Islands in the U20 semifinal in Vanuatu last year...[15]

[literally all coverage is "Mermer said"], and anyway the article is a press release from VFF

[youtube interview from OFC], [youtube video from sports ministry]

[blog post][16]

Suri’s opposite number Etienne Mermer despite having a good number of experienced players featured in the 2017 FIFA U-20 World Cup says... (+quotes)[17]

[OFC PR][18]

So please tell me how this adds up to SIGCOV of Mermer??

JoelleJay (talk) 18:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. I agree with the above evaluation of the sources. Alvaldi (talk) 20:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Article fails WP:GNG per the above evaluation of the sources; the only in-depth coverage comes from the VFF, OFC and quotes from the subject himself (which are not independent of the subject). Jogurney (talk) 20:30, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, passes GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:26, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can you explain how in light of the source analysis by JoelleJay above? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:31, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.