Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emma Stark (umpire)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. WP:SNOWing in Antarctica. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 13:07, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Emma Stark (umpire)[edit]

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No evidence of any notability. A single source which includes direct quotes from the subject. No doubt an excellent sports woman but this doesn't come close to Wikipedia notability and searches don't help, even when you get past the Scottish apostolic prophet . Fails WP:GNG Velella ^{Velella Talk} 18:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Australia. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 18:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: This seems like a WP:BEFORE failure. A quick click on the find sources links above shows plenty of coverage to satisfy WP:GNG. Toddst1 (talk) 19:03, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 21:46, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Toddst1. See https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-literally-cried-teen-field-umpire-the-youngest-ever-at-afl-s-top-level-20220826-p5bd49.html and https://thewest.com.au/sport/the-aflnt-umpires-have-unearthed-a-young-gem-with-ambitions-to-reach-the-top-ng-3607c1140c437f6a9a93343060a0ac5c. pburka (talk) 21:51, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - of these two quoted sources, the first is already used in the article and is not robustly independent since it quotes the subject herself. The second is behind a paywall and the text would need to be copied here for evaluation. However, that still falls a long way short of at least three reliable and independent sources required. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 22:03, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm baffled by the claim that a source isn't independent if the author interviewed the subject. Surely that's how good journalism is conducted. It's independent because Ms Stark doesn't own The Age or have control over its content. I'm equally baffled by the claim that we need three sources. Multiple sources (i.e. two) are sufficient. Regardless, there are more quality sources in the Google News results. pburka (talk) 22:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No. It's an interview designed to bring out the best in the subject. It isn't impartial. The source is fine, but it is very weak in establishing notability. Velella ^{Velella Talk} 22:18, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That first source doesn't read like an interview to me. It reads like an article which contains content from an interview with the subject. Protonk (talk) 22:24, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:BASIC - ‘I literally cried’: Teen field umpire the youngest ever at AFL’s top level (Brisbane Times, Aug. 27, 2022/ Sydney Morning Herald) includes secondary context from an independent and reliable source, even though she is quoted in the context of the reporting focused on her, e.g. "At just 16 years old, Emma Stark has become the youngest field umpire to officiate at the highest level of the AFL after presiding over the Essendon v Hawthorn AFLW game on Saturday night." [...] Stark started umpiring when she was 13 [...] Two years later she became the youngest female field umpire to officiate a 2021 men’s premier league match [...] She entered the women’s league with many accolades already to her name" etc. Also, this is subscription-blocked for me, but the preview says: "Emma Stark has impressed as a player and umpire in her chosen sport of Australian football." (The AFLNT umpires have unearthed a young gem with ambitions to reach the top, The West Australian, 8 February 2021). I am also unable to access NT News coverage, but there appears to be coverage focused on her sports career since 2021, e.g. "Youngest NTFL Premier League field umpire in history" Oct 18, 2021, "Junior award winners announced", Mar 8, 2021, "Revealed: The 2021-22 Women’s Rising Star nominees" Mar 3, 2022. Beccaynr (talk) 22:28, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Beccaynr and pburka. A WP:BEFORE failure where the subject was a woman. Curious how often that happens. Protonk (talk) 22:38, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per notablity establishing sources mentioned above. Also, the fact that a source is behind a paywall (or limited access or even not online) doesn't make it less acceptable. If that was the case we'd have to delete millions of articles. --SuperJew (talk) 13:24, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the coverage in The Age, The West and NT News satisfies GNG. Sources aren't disqualified for notability purposes merely because they're paywalled or contain direct quotes from the subject. – Teratix ₵ 02:23, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per reasons discussed by multiple editors. Storm machine (talk) 05:56, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.