Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Defunct major North American sports teams

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete as a article which in effect duplicates, and is less comprehensive than, the category Defunct sports teams without adding to the understanding of the topic. nancy ^(talk) 12:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Defunct major North American sports teams

Unnecessary duplication. See Category:Defunct sports teams - there are lots of more informative articles in this vein. Corvus cornix_talk 19:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, per nom. Tool2Die4 (talk) 20:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This one needs to go defunct ASAP It's actually worse than a category, because it incorrectly describes teams that moved as "defunct", and most of these teams are ones that moved: Quebec Nordiques (Colorado Avalanche); Hartford Whalers (Carolina Hurricanes); Winnipeg Jets (Phoenix Coyotes); Houston Oilers (Tennessee Titans); Washington Senators (could be the Twins or the Rangers); Baltimore Bullets (Washington Wizards); Montreal Expos (Washington Nationals); Cincinnati Royals (Sacramento Kings); St. Louis Browns (Baltimore Orioles); Seattle Pilots (Milwaukee Brewers); New York/New Jersey MetroStars (Red Bull New York). There's no attempt even to distinguish NHL from MLB or NFL or NBA teams. A good "list of defunct teams" would be overly long anyway, and a list of teams that moved or folded would be even worse. Mandsford (talk) 20:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, there were two unrelated NBA franchises known as the Baltimore Bullets. The first one went defunct in the 1950s, and would qualify for a list like this. By the way, we already have a complete list of defunct NBA teams here. Zagalejo^^^ 03:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. -- Beloved Freak 22:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

LOL@Tool2Die4.... just trying to step on my toes again.... anyway, go ahead and delete it.... I did not realize a similar page existed. I looked for one but didnt find it. That said, I will disagree with this statement:

It's actually worse than a category, because it incorrectly describes teams that moved as "defunct", and most of these teams are ones that moved: Quebec Nordiques (Colorado Avalanche); Hartford Whalers (Carolina Hurricanes); Winnipeg Jets (Phoenix Coyotes); Houston Oilers (Tennessee Titans); Washington Senators (could be the Twins or the Rangers); Baltimore Bullets (Washington Wizards); Montreal Expos (Washington Nationals); Cincinnati Royals (Sacramento Kings); St. Louis Browns (Baltimore Orioles); Seattle Pilots (Milwaukee Brewers); New York/New Jersey MetroStars (Red Bull New York

I am well aware of this and those teams cannot be found on the Defunct sports teams page since they have moved or changed names. I thought it would be interesting and I also think that if someone expanded it and other editors added to it it would be a good article. My hope was to nudge the snowball downhill and see if it grows. If not, so be it. Regards. Wjmummert (talk) 22:34, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep, but rename to List of defunct sports teams and expand based on the category. Subject is notable and verifiable by sources provided on the articles regarding said teams. Categories and lists are not to be considered in conflict with one another simply due to redundancy. Relevant guidelins can be found by reiewing WP:CLN, specifically the parts regarding synergism between lists and categories. Celarnor ^{Talk to me} 23:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Did you read what I said? We already have more extensive articles on this subject. Corvus cornix_talk 18:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Although one can say that the Houston Oilers team no longer exists, defunct generally means a halt to operations, or completely going out of business. Few people consider a team that has moved, or changes name, as having gone "defunct". It's a matter of honor for the big leagues-- it's been more than fifty years since an NFL or NBA team went out of business, more than 100 years since a National League baseball team failed. The original 8 American League franchises exist in 8 of the 16 AL teams, or however many there are now. The capital of the United States is no longer in New York City or Philadelphia, but it isn't defunct. The Haloid Corporation did not go out of business when it changed its name to Xerox. You'll find, however, that tracking a team's moves and changes of name are a daunting process. You cited the Cincinnati Royals. Before that, they were the Rochester Royals. After they left Cincinnati, they were the Kansas City Kings (and briefly, the "Kansas City- Omaha Kings") before becoming the Sacramento Kings. Generally, it's not a good idea to start an article just to see if it grows. There are, literally, hundreds of examples of teams that have come and gone or moved or changed names. Mandsford (talk) 00:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. The category is sufficient. Frank Anchor ^{Talk to me} (R-OH) 02:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: as POV-ridden. For one thing, this defines as "major" only five sports leagues. It makes no attempts to categorize teams from other leagues considered "major" by the sporting community (the World Hockey Association, the Pacific Coast Hockey Association, the American Basketball League, the All-American Football Conference, the Federal League, the North American Soccer League ...), and that total would run this list to a couple hundred anyway. Ravenswing 16:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Good list to have. Many of the delete arguments above deal with content problems, not notability, verifiability, etc. If there concerns with POV, missing teams, etc., fix the article. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 22:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't understand. Why fix a deficient article when we already have better articles which cover this material? Corvus cornix_talk 22:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - I only see a category cited, not any articles. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 23:55, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Do you understand the purpose of a category? It's to categorize articles. I pointed to the category to indicate all of those articles which are covered by the category. Corvus cornix_talk 03:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - I do understand the purpose of a category, but categories and lists aren't mutually exclusive; see WP:CLN, which Celarnor has already pointed out to you above. You're also getting borderline uncivil with your responses, both to Celarnor and myself. There's no need to take it as a personal insult if someone doesn't share your personal opinion. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 04:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for at least two reasons: (1) Many of the teams listed are not defunct, they simply moved and/or changed their names, as an editor noted earlier; (2) There is no new information in the article that can't be had from a category. If the original editor wants to discuss teams that moved and/or changed their nicknames, he could invent another category. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 11:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 20:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.