Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cena–Orton rivalry

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. I have to discount the one "keep" opinion because it contains personal attacks. There is just not enough substantive discussion here for consensus. Sandstein 09:20, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cena–Orton rivalry[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No indication of notability. As it appears to largely be a plot summary, it fails WP:PLOT. There is only one source which comes close to indicating its importance, which is a primary source from WWE itself (no independent or seconadary sources which are preferred to establish importance) which simply labels it as Cena's top feud in a top 10 list. Again, this fails to establish notability. — Czello 22:40, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Sports, and Wrestling. — Czello 22:40, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As far as I see it this is a topic that potentially could be shown to be notable (same with other wrestling rivalries), but, since Cena and Orton already have articles that cover this topic better there is not really any use for this article as of now. I'd say delete since neither man is more of a primary target for a redirct. ★Trekker (talk) 10:26, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The Cena–Orton rivalry is equivalent to the Federer–Nadal rivalry rivalry in professional wrestling, both tp stars in the WWE with a lengthy acclaimed feud, acknowledged as John Cena (one of the biggest name in wrestling history)'s greatest rivalry per this and many other WP:RS beside this: [1], every line is well sourced so its notable, this is Czello vendetta against me, as his friend User:ItsKesha who has been topic banned from wrestling and is under 1 month GS due to numerous edit wars and content disputte, as proven here Czello crying ver his banning: [2], the duo have a hostory of teaming against other editors including myself as in the John Cena artcile: [3], so yes this is pure biased "meating" and neglecting countless unreliable articles they tartget the one I made which is WP:GTS and also this article is sufficiently sourced and this rivalry is well acknowledged in the world of professional wrestling. Dilbaggg (talk) 18:18, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I used to have huge respect for Czello but am shocked by this vendetta and teaming with topic banned user, also there are many many sources besides WWE's own (which is widley accepted WP:PW/RS that cites this feud's greatness: [4] and [5] are just two out of many examples, people can google it to find its extreme notability. Dilbaggg (talk) 18:40, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

every line is well sourced so its notable No, this isn't how it works. You need to establish the importance of this feud, and so far no sources do. The one that comes the closest is the first one, which is simply a top 10 list. If you feel that you think any of the sources do establish its notability, please list them. I'm going to ignore the rest of this comment as it's a rather bizarre and conspiratorial violation of WP:AGF. — Czello 21:08, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You neglected the two sources I pointed above, and I am adding yet another f countless WP:RS like this to the article: [6]. Dilbaggg (talk) 11:13, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bleacher Report can only be used for minor statements like match results per WP:PW/RS. Republicworld is not reliable per the same link. I will grant you that Pinkvilla does say it is "arguably" on of the greatest feuds - but this link is nowhere to be found in the article. Would you like to add it? — Czello 11:20, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Czello bleacher report said a minor statement here, that this is one of the feud that defined a generation, its a reliable WP:RS and even has its own article Bleacher report and PW is under WP:GS so their opinion on RS doesn't apply much at the moment. Anyway they only asked to refrain from pre 2013 sources, the source I gave is 2022, thank you for acknowledging the other one though. Dilbaggg (talk) 11:44, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Minor statement" means an undisputed fact like "Orton won this match", not "one of the greatest feuds ever" - which, again, the source doesn't actually say. What statement are you hoping to source with the Bleacher Report link? If you have a definitive source somewhere that Bleacher Report is reliable for more than that, I'll happily concede - but I took your suggestion and looked through the WP:RSN archives and I could find nothing but criticism. Also the pre-2013 comment means this is when it went from "not reliable" to "partially reliable".

I'm happy to add the Pinkvilla link - I know you believe I have some kind of vendetta against you or your articles, but honestly all I want is from this to be better sourced, which Pinkvilla does. — Czello 11:49, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok Czello, thanks for acknowledging, we are fellow editors and we should do our best to make great articles like this, glad you understand how notable this is, best wishes bro. Dilbaggg (talk) 11:51, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think, Dilbaggg, you should Wikipedia:Assume good faith from Czello and not a conspiracy against you or your articles. Now, about the article, I think the Orton Cena feud is a good feud, but the article is just a list of results and reports. Worst, it's WP:In-Universe. Ex: "Orton then attacked Cena's father who was sitting at ringside by punt kicking him and seriously injuring him." The article has no mention about real life events. How the feud was received, why the feud it's so important. Just a 411Mania mention and Cesaro comment. But there are no other sources about the feud. If you work on the article, it may be a keep, but this adds nothing to the Cena/Orton articles. Sadly, there are no other wrestling feuds, the Hogan/Andre also has in-universe. The Federer/Nadal article has sections like Analysis, competitive dynamic... --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:04, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All wrestlers aricles have some plot elements, but this also has many things like how the matches were seen, the praises of the matches, the criticims of the lenght of the feud and also how Cena and Orton views each other irl. Like Nadal-federer in tennis and Messi–Ronaldo rivalry in football this article shows emphasis in oe of the most prominent rivalry in pro wrestling. Dilbaggg (talk) 11:55, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dilbaggg: I think Federer–Nadal rivalry is a great example of what this article could be but isn't. The #Analysis section or the #Relationship and competitive dynamic details why their feud was so significant. If that kind of notability were established in this article I'll happily withdraw this deletion nomination. — Czello 12:12, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Is there a list of WWE storylines, major events, or some such? The coverage of the topic seems to be limited to trivial pop culture articles at a first glance, but being merged to a list would make sense. TTN (talk) 22:53, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, PhantomSteve/talk¦contribs\ 19:19, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 09:12, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.