Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calls for the destruction of Israel

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Discussion around scope, refocusing article etc. can continue on the talk page. Daniel (talk) 21:46, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Calls for the destruction of Israel[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Please don't shoot the messenger. This article is a summary WP:POVFORK of various tangentially-related pages and is full of WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. For example, "so-and-so body says X." Then, "Palestinians do XX", which is implied as a violation of the previous sentence. The entire article is like this. WP:TNT. We have so many articles with overlapping scopes. Anti-Zionism, Antisemitism in the Arab world, Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Incitement to genocide, Palestinian political violence, Palestinian genocide accusation, Zionist entity, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel, Second Holocaust... I simply do not see what was the need of another article saying what so many others do. Wikipedia does not fragmentise other conflicts to this excessive degree. It makes navigating articles about this topic needlessly confusing. Crampcomes (talk) 18:25, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Middle East, Israel, and Palestine. Owen× ☎ 19:26, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - appears to pass WP:GNG. starship .paint (RUN) 02:17, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Starship.paint the problem here is that this article covers the same topic as Anti-Zionism, making it a WP:CFORK. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 16:08, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that the topic area grants some leniency in matters of CFORK. For example Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel. starship .paint (RUN) 23:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What's that Afd got to do with anything? Where does policy say "leniency" is granted? Can you explain what is the difference in the topic between "calls for the destruction of Israel" and "anti-zionism" (defined as opposition to the existence of Israel in its current form). VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 02:29, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article is adequately sourced. TH1980 (talk) 03:09, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - What pages do you contend this is a fork of? PrimaPrime (talk) 11:42, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have so many articles with overlapping scopes. Antisemitism in the Arab world, Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Incitement to genocide, Palestinian political violence, Palestinian genocide accusation, Zionist entity, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel, Second Holocaust...Crampcomes (talk) 07:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Topics being related or overlapping somewhat doesn't make this article a fork; that would be if we already had a page like Opposition to Israel's existence.

I agree that this conflict area has spawned a lot of articles focusing on rather trivial individual aspects thereof, and it might be better to merge some of them into longer and more general pages, but that's not an AFD question so long as each article in question does cover a distinctly notable topic. Maybe start a discussion over at WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration? PrimaPrime (talk) 23:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PrimaPrime this page is a fork of anti-zionism. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 02:31, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That you just redirected that former redlink to your preferred topic does nothing to bolster your case. PrimaPrime (talk) 02:37, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Per Nomination and unnecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hackesan (talk • contribs) 17:01, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – The sensitivity of the subject is understandable, but the article discusses a recurring social phenomenon. The charge must be for scope neutrality, not for deletion. Svartner (talk) 20:17, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep per Svartner. \\ Loksmythe // (talk) 20:46, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and wasn't there a RFC on this question less than six months ago? פעמי-עליון (talk) 22:05, 14 January 2024‎ (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep and close. The AfD justification is word-for-word the same as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel, an article created by the nominator. In this case, the justification has nothing to do with the article nominated. For example, there's nothing in this article about the "Palestinians do X," or is this article a WP:POVFORK of any article. What are the article-specific examples of a policy-based justification for AfD? This reads as WP:Tendentious

Longhornsg (talk) 05:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I noticed that the opening phrase of both was first (I assume) recently used by myself in an impulsive random patrol AfD in this topic area that was closed as speedy keep without votes…

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 15:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article looks to be a WP:FORK of anti-zionism. Can someone explain to me what is the difference between calling for Israel's destruction (article currently at AfD) and for opposing Israel's existence (anti-zionism)? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 08:24, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I support delete or redirect to Anti-Zionism. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 02:44, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These are two separate concepts, unfortunately muddied in today's politicized discourse where the meaning of ideas doesn't matter anymore. Longhornsg (talk) 02:50, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Explain the difference. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 02:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable topic in its own right.

Per Svartner, I agree more or less completely with them.

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per PrimaPrime. -- Avi (talk) 04:00, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep as there is a clear GNG (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and many more). With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 15:34, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There's a lot more discussion about this at Talk:Anti-Zionism#Possible content fork. It looks unlikely that there will be consensus to delete. VR does ask a valid question about the difference between Anti-Zionism and Calls for the destruction of Israel that I don't think either article makes clearly enough, so hopefully this discussion will prompt someone to make that difference clearer. (I can't edit either article, so I can't do it myself yet!) Ironic (talk) 21:59, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: also note Legitimacy of the State of Israel, which is the only article of its kind in the entire encyclopedia. François Robere (talk) 00:54, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Not the most neutral, but not bad enough to need deleting. Definitely a notable topic. Alextejthompson (Ping me or leave a message on my talk page) 20:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.