Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Al-Adabiya port

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is that this fails WP:V. Any sourceable content about a military engagement in this place and time should first be added, with appropriate references, to an existing or broader-scoped article. Sandstein 10:56, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Al-Adabiya port[edit]

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Recent article about a battle that didn't actually happen. No credible source. Piouche (talk) 19:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Military, Algeria, and Israel. Shellwood (talk) 19:39, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it may have been a small engagement, and it may sit better in the article about the Battle for Suez, but there clearly was a battle at Adabiya. Mccapra (talk) 20:11, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about a battle that supposedly happened from October 25 to 28, that involved the algerian army, and that ended as an algerian victory.

That clearly never happened. The algerian land army didn't even fight at all during the war, as correctly stated on the main Yom Kippur War article. Piouche (talk) 20:42, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events and Egypt. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:39, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, it simply didn't happen. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 19:30, 11 April 2023

(UTC)

The battle happened Algeria is hard to source and almost impossible in English. The French article is longer, but not all that much help. It does say that the Algerians, yes, definitely were there, but that the account of the battle was from the general's memoirs. As reported by an Algerian nationalist newspaper. They were there, with armored vehicles. I could, actually, conceive of such a battle being ignored since Algeria would have been newly independent and probably wasn't expected to stand a chance against Israel. The French were probably also still smarting over Algerian independence. Also, French Wikipedia may discount that, but should we?

That doesn't mean that that's what happened, though. But it's sourced infirmation and I am not seeing why the source would not be treatec as reliable, though certainly biased since he would have an incentive to inflate its importance. As far as the author goes, he was a wartime general who saw action in this war. How is that not notable? I think you must be getting that assessment by looking for book reviews or something. I also strongly suggest checking in Arabic. Hth

Delete: Fails GNG and EVENT. There was fighting but nothing significant in the context of the war, and no IS RS seem to consider it a significant military engagement or mention it as a separate topic from the events surrounding it. Article seems to exist to highlight that the 8th Algerian was involved. No idea where most of the detail comes from and is probably all OR or SYNTH. Since most of the article fails V, all that would be left is a questionably notable microstub if the article was cleaned up. // Timothy :: talk 09:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I’ve searched in Arabic and found nothing. Mccapra (talk) 11:01, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Abstain - if Mccapra is correct that there is no support for this in Arabic sources, then I don't really care enough about this to argue against its deletion. However, as a report on the fr-wikipedia article, I am noting that Jeune Afrique is generally RS and a couple of the other sources look like books. Throw out Jewish Virtual Library, which I've been told is not RS, and arguably the "nationalist" Algerian source (which may simply mean that it opposed French colonialism), but let's throw that out too for the sake of the argument. We would still have apparently RS secondary sources based on the account of an eyewitness, even though admittedly one with an agenda. Seems like that should fall into the category of a controversy to be explained, not deleted. But if there are no Arabic sources, I am not going to argue the matter after this post, since Boumedienne was an authoritarian that I don't want to champion anyway. But the French article is quite firmly saying that the Algerian 8th Armored Division was there in support of the Egyptian Army and so, such as it was, was the sum total of the Algerian Air Force. Elinruby (talk) 21:58, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I note the fr.wiki article is up for deletion too, for the same reasons. There was some fighting as the Israelis took Adabiya, but that in itself does not seem sufficient to warrant an article. Whether or not Moshe Dayan talked about Algerian forces I don’t know, but I haven’t been able to find it. Mccapra (talk) 02:57, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that too. I am just saying that we appear to be ignoring RS, but I don't care enough about whether the Israelis consider this a battle to oppose deletion. I just don't see why it's their call, but I have other fish to fry Elinruby (talk) 14:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The other quoted sources than the AlgeriePatriotique article don't actually support what's written in the article. Piouche (talk) 06:31, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- Having read the main article on the Yom Kippur War, it is not obvious to me that this article is a hoax. It is clear there was fighting at Adabiya after the ceasefire, but it ended with the Egyptians holding the town centre and the Israelis some suburbs. That sounds to me like a stalemate, where Israel attacked but was driven off. If anyone was victorious, it would be Egypt not Algeria, since any Algerians forces would be fighting as allies of Egypt to defend Egypt. The battlebox thus needs amendment. The article seeks to make this a separate engagement following another battle of Adabiya (no article). I would prefer to see a single article on the whole of the battle(s) or perhaps on the Adabiya aspects of the whole war. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.