User talk:Wetman/archive21Jan2011

Lycurgus Cup

I don't know if you've spotted this new expansion. Most of the stuff on the web is by excited nanotechnologists & I think I've covered that side. But I think Bacchism (?) was still alive and kicking as a cult in 300 & that side is so far neglected, & not covered by glass/museum sources. A pic of the figure of the god is only to be found deep in the BM "collection database" - I can't link directly. It is interesting, but I'm already in OR country on that. Is there anything you could add or recommend? Johnbod (talk) 13:38, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'd read Lycurgus Cup with pleasure and envy, Johnbod. ...so, in the fourth and early fifth centuries, isn't Dionysus the last-chance full-blooded standard-bearer for the old high culture, at a time when all the gods had withdrawn, it seemed, to mere astrological emblems? So, to start it, at first there should at least be a section at Dionysus for Bacchus in Late Antiquity: an emblem of eternal joyousness, that Kerenyi calls "Indestructible Life", as suited to all those Dionysiac processions on sarcophagi, as it is to a winecup itself. For starters, you'd need look no farther than the Mildenhall Treasure right there in BM. There's Dionysiaca, too... It would need to be a tissue of quotes and paraphrases, to avoid RandyInBoise. Panofsky. Seznec. I searched 'Dionysus Dionysos "Late Antiquity"' and fished up a veritable giant's cauldron of articles. History of ideas, though, fits uneasily within the encyclopedia format.--Wetman (talk) 16:46, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Poseidon

The PIE root of "flow,river" is da (Pokorny).A possible etymology is given by Carnoy for the name Po-tei-daF-wn,derived from potis=lord,master and *daFon=water in some IE languages. (ref:Greek Etymological dictionary.Beekes.entry 1651.,M.Nilldon:Die Gesch.der Griech.Relegion p.444,445)193.92.222.36 (talk) 21:08, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Definite article of not?

I just belatedy spotted this [1] - you speak English as a mother tongue - what do you think?. To me, in English, Lazio is a football club.  Giacomo  17:54, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Well we'd invariable speak of cuisine of Le Marche and cuisine of the Mezzogiorno, and we'd also sometimes say cuisine of the Veneto instead of cuisine of Veneto. But we'd never say cuisine of the Tuscany or of the Emilia. I'd say cuisine of Lazio myself, but it doesn't leap out at me as clearly wrong to say cuisine of the Lazio.--Wetman (talk) 18:11, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

So, though we always speak in English of the Abruzzi and usually of the Campania but not of the Liguria, I don't know why this is. But an exaggerated respect for consistency was not part of my far-from-authoritarian upbringing.--Wetman (talk) 18:31, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I suppose I rather thought that there was a range of "the Abruzzi" somewhere, but apparently:"The term Abruzzi derives from the time when the region was part of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and the territory was administered as Abruzzo Citeriore (Nearer Abruzzo) and Abruzzo Ulteriore I and II (Farther Abruzzo I and II ), that being nearer and farther from Naples, the capital of the kingdom." (sez Abruzzo). Lazio was not a traditional state or region & I don't think it was at all well known in English until recent decades, & then mainly as a football team, in the UK anyway. That it has a definite article in Italian has probably escaped the modern English, who aren't as keen to show off their correct Italian as their predecessors. Toscana takes the definite article at least sometimes, & since we never talk of "the Yorkshire" or "the Texas", these fine distinctions escape us. Johnbod (talk) 00:42, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

• When I first went to school, not that long ago, we learned of The Argentine, and The Ukraine - God knows why, but I expect there was a very good reason - perhaps for the same reason one goes to the Scilly Isles in Britian and to North Island in New Zealand who knows? Regardless of Wikipedia (as always presuming to know better) when speaking English, I shall continue to refer to the football club as Lazio and the region as The Lazio.  Giacomo  21:30, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage

Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!

For this small but very useful edit. Drmies (talk) 15:33, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Glad to be able to contribute my bit.--Wetman (talk) 16:02, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism?

You said: "Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Gilgamesh. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. The sixth grade reaches Gilgamesh just about this time every year.--Wetman (talk) 01:00, 18 September 2010 (UTC)"

I am not sure what you are talking about. I was indeed viewing this page around that time, but I am pretty sure I've never tried to edit anything on Wikipedia, even things about which I do have a decent amount of knowledge. But, what did I add / change in this edit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.97.0.101 (talk) 01:45, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

What's up with this unconstructive edit? Log in to be taken seriously: many editors don't take anonymous calls. --Wetman (talk) 01:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd be willing to bet

(who picks up the bar tab when we do get together) that

this

is not by Chambellan. I'm trying to prove Samuel Yellin - unsuccessfully so far, but . ...... Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 00:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Chambellan is always a sculptor at heart, Yellin an ironworker, don't you think? These exterior doors at Williamsburgh Savings Bank Tower aren't like the inside metalwork with cast detail (bronze alloy?); this from Yellin, that Chambellan? I've not seen Jack Andrews, Samuel Yellin, Metalworker, save what I can google, but I think you're right. In my neighborhood, Yellin's wrought iron seems to be recognizable (the dread OR) at The Apthorp and Central Savings Bank. Both Yellin and Chambellan are represented at Caramoor, one with door latches etc, the other with desk sets etc. There's an incomplete card catalogue of projects in the Yellin archive in Philadelphia. --Wetman (talk) 03:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Yellin work

I have the Andrews book and here is a picture of a section that is very similar to the work in the pic you posted. The book also has a very good listing of Yellin's work and the Williamsburgh bank IS NOT LISTED. Perhaps it had another name? (Not that I can find) Perhaps it was missed, or perhaps it was just done in a Yellin style. But this is wrought iron work and not sculpture, so I'm saying "not Chambellan." No need to change anything though, this is just a side conversation between two of the seven people in the universe who care. Carptrash (talk) 21:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Devonshire House

The above page is a badly written mess, but very nuch in the UK news at the moment; the papers were full of it this morning as the Devonshire's are selling its former fitments (ironically, the auctioneer is the son of the earl who sold Mentmore in the 70's, none of them seem to have realised that yet - so it may be fun to inform the world). As people will be googling it, Wikipedia's reputation is at stake; hence, much as I never rush a page out - I do think we need a quick and fast team effort from anyone reading this here User:GiacomoReturned/Devonshire House - I have no references so am making it up as I go along - so anything you have (with or wthout references) is welcome. I have to go to bed now for an early start, but if anyone wants to add to it and put it into user space before morning that's fine by me. There's virually nothing on the internet about it, so this is a chance for Wikipedia to shine.  Giacomo  21:16, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

And just this morning I withdrew from the library a biography of Georgiana's sister, Lady Harriet Spencer. Light toff scandal to soothe a brain fevered currently by Abelard and Heloise ("...just drop a line to me, please"). The Metropolitan Museum of Art had a hall chair from D. House, designed by William Kent, and not recognizing it, sold it quietly in the 1950s (ahem OR).--Wetman (talk) 23:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC) Couldn't add that bit. But I got in Virginia Woolf's Mrs Dalloway.--Wetman (talk) 05:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Brilliant reffs - thank you. I want to try and do a computer generated model, do you think the Vitruvius plan's elevation is the garden of street facade. If it's the street, then the double staircase was replaced with a port cochere (quite sensible considering the English weather) do you know of a picture of the garden facade? It may have had a Venetian window at is centre or ends - I cannot believe both facades were so unrelieved and chaste - or allowed to remain so.  Giacomo  07:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

It appears to be the Piccadilly front, showing Kent's entrance stairs, before Decimus Burton's porte-cochere; to judge from the plan, the garden front was quite flat. That's the D. House garden front looming above its trees in this print of Berkeley Square in 1813: not much to go on. Devonshire House was far more compelling for its interiors and what went on there than for its institutional-looking shell, eh?--Wetman (talk) 17:54, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Well I am working on a computer model, and funnily enough the more you look the more you see, just looking at the available photographs, I am starting to piece the whole togethter like a jig-saw puzzle and its not so bland, I think a lot of people have judged it purely on the main block rather than a composition arond a cour d'honneur - the nuisance is that the computer cannot add the limited chaste ornament that there is, and I am not talented enough to do it by hand, but I will finish it and can always delete it if it looks terrible.  Giacomo  18:49, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Pale washes of color. When you are not quite absolutely sure, pale washes of color. Devonshire House, entre cour et jardin, of course: I'd not thought of it in that framework.--Wetman (talk) 18:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)--Wetman (talk) 18:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Here's a very rough model, far from finished, but more or less correct and to scale File:Dev Houseunfinished.jpg, you see it's not so ugly if you take away the years of soot and put it in context and colour. I've certainly seen worse and paid good money to look at worse.  Giacomo  19:14, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Those Decimus Burton parade rooms are little loss, though. Do you really want to include Decimus Burton's porte cochere? Kent's grand exterior stairs don't show in that engraving you found (I formatted it into the text), but isn't that a late C19 imaginatively "restored" view? From Beresford Chancellor maybe? Aren't we quite sure that Kent's stairs were actually built? The small pediments over four doorways in the courtyard quadrants are important rhythmically. The flanking service blocks are relieved towards Piccadilly with recessed panels and dormers. --Wetman (talk) 19:47, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

• Oh yes, the quadrant doorways will be added, just as soon as I've worked out how, the blind windows too and the roof on the flanking blocks. I went with the portico because the 1908 book (I forget the title, says the portico was incorporated, not that hideous one though I doubt}, but I have a problem beleiving that in a house designed for entertaining frequently in rainy old England expected the creme of society to climb flights of stairs open to the elements before being admitted. Those double staircases are OK in the English countryside where they were seldom used as the "grand entrance", but in London? No, I suspect they were never built. However, it is the cour d'honneur that's important here, the composition. Regarding the wall, we all see Buckingham palace from the front, but I have frequently walked arownd that blackened horrible wall of yellowy bricks which only brak for a brief while to allow tourists their one and only glimpse of the state facade, and wondered if the occupants are not really prisoners, I think those walls were typical of the era. I suspect that if Devonshire House existed today, it would have glorious wrought iron railing revealing its Palladian splendour. That strange white banding on the facade needs explaining though - a late 19th century replacement do you think?  Giacomo  20:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

One's party would have alit from one's chariot, your late great-aunt would have told you, Giano, the ladies completely enveloped in their mantuas, the gentlemen wrapped in long cloaks. I think your point about the rainy clamber up to the Entrance Hall certainly motivated Decimus Burton's rearrangement. But could the main entry ever have been through such a mean little door? was the ground floor ever more than a service undercroft? Vitruvius Britannicus iv isn't among the "complete" Dover reprints—— of i to iii. Now I see a notice of a painting À bientôt, by Valentine Cameron Prinsep, described in The Art Journal review of the Royal Academy exhibition (1876:222) as a courtly farewell of a gentleman in olive green to a lady in white satin "at the foot of the staircase of Devonshire House, well and accurately drawn". Of course "well and accurately drawn" will most likely refer to the current stairtcase as it was c1876. --Wetman (talk) 21:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I was very interested when researching Basildon Park, to see that Carr had the ingenious idea of fitting a double curved staircase underneath the portico itself, which I though was a very clever, if less imposing, solution. At DH, I could demolish the portico and add the staircase. The problem is which era to go with, all those single flat roofs covering rooms lit only glass lantern-lights, sugestive of grim and sculleries and bootrooms, between the wall and the second floor of the wings looks very 19th century to me as does the ballustrading with the big balls flanking the quadrant arches. Also within a few years of being built, the whole composition would have been completely black. I can still remember my first sight of London as a small child, in the early 60s, everything was literally coal black. anything, but an origonal photograh is going to be a little fanciful and imagined, and the photograhs will all be showing the 19th century alterations - a problem.  Giacomo  11:52, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Do you think this is giving a fair impression of what the place is about? I am writing for my imaginary adolescent - and it's s/he I want to interest. Now I have done the 19th century version, I will do a 18th century with the double staircase; I can't beleive Kent designed all that fgleaming coping stone either. I used some artistic licence on the fenestration of the flanking wings, based on the mezanines etc at Holkham and Care at Basildon. I can't help wondering if that dominating gable existed on the wings in the 18th century - that seems very 19th century to me. What do you think, I suppose I am going dangerously close to own research..., but it's all based on good stuff. 20:40, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

If I may barge in here... the October issue of The World of Interiors (which for some reason has no article) has several well-illustrated pages on what they call the Chatsworth "attic sale". I don't know if it would be possible for anyone nearby to go there to take pictures for Wikipedia (would they allow it?), but if you have some savings to spend you could go there and buy an 18th century door or two and just take the photographs after you have had them installed in your own Stately Home. --Hegvald (talk) 18:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, The World of Interiors that's the one they always have in the doctor's waiting room, two years out of date isn't it? It will take me a while and several bouts of ill-health to come across that one. I see the fireplaces are expected to make £300,000 each, that seems an awful lot for a second hand mantelpiece that does not even come with a "real-effect living gas flame". I expect they won't allow photographs, allthough Chatsworth is one of the few houses in which once can legally snap away. Sotheby's auctions are usually "entry by catalogue only" and they sting you a fortune for the catalogue which means only the super-rich have enoough left to squander £300,000 on an old fashioned fitment.  Giacomo  22:04, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

When I was a spark, the sale rooms were open house: the whole experience was a great educational tool, and kept you dry on wet afternoons. I'm chagrined about the chimneypieces. Half a million guineas (everything was in guineas) used to buy you a whole French boiserie. Or a big bold Rubens oil sketch. --Wetman (talk) 22:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

and disinfo

Thought this may amuse you, while looking for info on Devonshire House, I wanted a building date for Chiswick House, too lazy to cross the room to the book-case, I clicked onto Chiswick House despite a disonfo box of truly monumantal proportions and lead of enormous magnitude, I have still had to stir from my chair and cross the room. I cannot beleive it's not there - somewhere! However, from the disinfo I do know that I can buy a sandwich there and should I have the urge I have the co-ordinates to view it from the moon.  Giacomo  09:32, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Quite a busy article. I must have a real look at it. When I saw it, quite a while back, it had been done up with flock wallpaper for lack of Genoa velvet! --Wetman (talk) 17:54, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Hello

I have created an article called Kataragama temple, if you have time can you take a look at it please. Thanks Kanatonian (talk) 22:04, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad to help again. Look through my changes and you'll get the reason for each of them. In English, placement of loose dependent clauses can be shifted about: they're best, though, when they directly follow the noun or phrase they most nearly relate to. Otherwise they're "dangling". About among/amongst: always use among, except in contexts where the physical placement is being particularly emphasized. thus the guru sat amongst his disciples, but the letter was found among some old papers and Hinduism is a major religion among the people of Sri Lanka. --Wetman (talk) 23:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks, a lot more to learn :) Kanatonian (talk) 15:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to be lecturing. Good article, by the way.--Wetman (talk) 12:56, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Scrotum House

Scrotum House, St James, London

Dearest Mr Wetman, one could not help but notice your recent interest in poor dear Debo's lost London home (so very careless the way these old people misplace things) so I knew, you would wish to see a picture of my own London home, Scrotum House, exactly as my beloved ancestor designed it - always so much more clever to let William Kent draw some ideas, re-interpret his plans and not pay him. That's why I have the money to maintain my beautiful London home and poor dear Debo does not. She is looking rather wrinkled and grey these days isn't she, since my recent American marriage I have new teeth, fairer hair and a much fatter face - people hardly recognise me - a transformation. Lady Catherine Rollbacker-de Burgh (the Late) (talk) 19:10, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course the simplified format does not do your Ladyship's London seat justice, Lady Catherine. One misses the glow that only your presence could give it. I am delighted to hear that you have altered like poor Lady Harbury, of whom Lady Bracknell observed "dear Lady Harbury. I hadn't been there since her poor husband's death. I never saw a woman so altered; she looks quite twenty years younger," and her nephew Algernon added, "Her hair has turned quite gold from grief." But, Lady Catherine, the dormer windows in the flanking blocks, which lit the garrets with sunlight, fail to appear. Perhaps laundry was dried there, to preserve it from London smuts. Or perhaps, like the Earls of Bedford, your steward sent it all to Holland to be washed and starched properly, as Miss Scott-Thomson told me quite some time ago. And hasn't a third chimney slipped in between the two that warm the rooms at the west end? I don't mean to cavil. Do present my warmest regards to your great-great nephew when you see him.--Wetman (talk) 21:26, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Nonsense, do you imagine that Mr Kent would have been so foolish as to design great monstrous windows like that - do you think I want my staff loking out of the window all the time, or worse the hoi-poloi looking in and seeing my drying laundery? No, indeed, staff don't like looking out of windows, it's a well onown fact, they find it distracting from their duties. I know of one very well known country house where the servant's windows were whitwashed over to prevent them nosing out of the windows at their betters. You may also have noticed that unlike Devonshire House, Scrotum House retains its "Kentian" gatehouse, rather than an undignified hole in the wall. I find it so useful as a ticket office when my many overseas guests arrive. Lady Catherine Rollbacker-de Burgh (the Late) (talk) 08:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Aha, but I have just found this image which conclusively puts pay to the idea of the house being completely hiden behind a high wall. The shutters on the upper floor though are extraordinary, what on earth were they all about, surely it would have had shutters on the inside folded back into the window embrasure?  Giacomo  17:17, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

PS:I wonder if those sphinxes were Virginia Wolff's gilded leopards?  Giacomo  17:19, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

That's the answer, I think. I couldn't see where Mrs Dalloway's "leopards" fitted in with Cavendish stags. So, who introduced the wrought-iron clair-voyée? Kent or Wyatt? Not, ahem, Inigo Jones after all.--Wetman (talk) 18:03, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

No, but if you click on th image for the bigger version, you can see the monogram WV, that ought to be a clue to their age. William the 5th (V) Duke 1748 - 1811? None of the Dukes had a Duchess with the initial V. The good news is that uncommons had the gates (unatributed) so I have been able to add them to the page. I see they have an attribution to "Adam" here [2]. I would doubt that.  Giacomo  18:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Giano! time to call the optometrist! what looks like W over V are the three Cavendish stag's head couped on a field sable.--Wetman (talk) 22:30, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Well I am due a new pair of glasses, but I thought they had entwined snakes.  Giacomo  22:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

...or just plain tortoiseshell frames.

Seriously, the "serpent nowed" or noué is the crest that sits on top of the arms. They're embossed on the cisterns atop the lead downpipes at Hardwick. I think that the serpent enknotted upon himself was a particular device of Sir William Cavendish—or was it Elizabeth Hardwick's? Those stag heads aren't couped, I'm now learning, they're caboshed. It's insidious to know too much heraldic slang—— a mark of over-plentiful leisure, I'm sure your great-great aunt Catherine would tell me.--Wetman (talk) 01:34, 5 October 2010 (UTC).

• I prefer the the heraldic term: "screwed up snake." A device which they all seem to use, it is even on the most recently late Duke's tombstone. I have just been looking through the most recent all singing and dancing full colour guide book of Chatsworth, where each page is headed by the aforementioned serpent (in green beneath a golden coronet); there is even a Victorian perambulator made of entirely of wrought iron writhing metal snakes - just think of the effect that would have had on a baby, no wonder half the arostocracy is quite mad - anyhow the snake seems to adorn keystones, portals and a dinner service, but no where is there a sign of three stags, so perhaps they kept them in London to remind them of the country and the snakes in the country to remind them of the politicians in London. But I do see what you mean [3].  Giacomo  07:17, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Daphne and the rainbow: question

Greetings! Do you perhaps know the answer to this question on my talk page? It's not coming to me immediately. I know there are several versions of the Daphne story, including some not by Ovid ... does this ring a bell? All the best, Antandrus (talk) 02:17, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikibias website

I hope that you will take a look at the wikibias website.~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by RockvilleMD (talk • contribs) 15:26, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I have done so. Well laid out, I must say. Systemic bias is a mark of the human condition: skepticism should never be disarmed. I find all the bias I have appetite for at Google News and avoid controversial subjects at Wikipedia, as they attract the wrong kind of people. When perfectly good articles are to be vetted for "Good Article" status by grand juries of inexperts, I drop them from my Watchlist. There's so much to do, so much to do. --Wetman (talk) 21:54, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Torlonia Vase

-- Cirt (talk) 18:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Better source request for Image:FonthillGallery.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:FonthillGallery.jpg. You provided a source, but it is difficult for other users to examine the copyright status of the image because the source is incomplete. Please consider clarifying the exact source so that the copyright status may be checked more easily. It is best to specify the exact Web page where you found the image, rather than only giving the source domain or the URL of the image file itself. Please update the image description with a URL that will be more helpful to other users in determining the copyright status.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source in a complete manner. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page or me at my talk page. Thank you. Fleet Command (talk) 12:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

A colour lithograph of c 1800. I don't care whether the image is deleted or not. I no longer add images to Wikipedia, so as not to have my time wasted by idiots. Tracking down the image I find "19:30, 23 July 2008 East718 (talk | contribs) deleted "File:FonthillGallery.jpg" ‎ (CSD I8: Image exists on the Commons)" A brilliant move that furthers the encyclopedia? Since the Commons image file does not offer the opportunity to edit the page, I have no resources. --Wetman (talk) 12:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Will's Coffee House

Hello, could you clarify what "London centre of the Wits" means in the Will's Coffee House article. Thanks in advance. Grim²³★ 20:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

The phrase "the Wits" can't really have escaped you in reading about, say John Dryden, William Wycherley John Wilmot, 2nd Earl of Rochester and Restoration comedy. Google, keeping the quotation marks "Will's Coffee House" wits for a start. Do you need a first book introducing 17th-century England? Let me think what I'd recommend.--Wetman (talk) 21:35, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

On reflection I'd recommend Forever Amber: it piqued my interest in 17th-century London when I was thirteen, I think. I've added some references and amusing quotes to make Will's Coffee House more lively, and quell cavils,--Wetman (talk) 01:31, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I meant no 'cavillation' :-) Thank you for your elucidations and recommendation, I've just ready the Wikipedia article and a Guardian review, it sounds like a fascinating and epic read, I'll add it to my 'to read' list. I have queries about the coffee house's location,(Initally I was just trying to add coordinates to the article) but I'll take them to the talkpage. All the best Grim²³★ 03:34, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Google maps: "Russell Street London" : see northwest corner with Bow Street. The streets have not moved. Will's however is long gone and no amount of GPS will get the reader there.--Wetman (talk) 03:42, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Alas, but I think being able to see historic locations on a map adds something to the encyclopedia. Grim²³★ 04:35, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

That requires a detail from a historical map, such as in 17th-Century London in Google Earth. --Wetman (talk) 05:02, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

The Vyne

Researching The Vyne for this page User:GiacomoReturned/The Vyne I am getting myself tied in knotts due to conflicting expert opinion - ranging from "beautifully quaint" to "architecturally dreadful" and "architecturally important" depending on who was paying the author. My own view is architecturally interesting and quiantisentially English, but probably not that important - I would personally even doubt Webb's hand on the portico, but the experts don't agree with me there. Whatever, but my question to you is - is the overall composition of the North front intentionally Palladian? Does Mr Colvin have a view? Please add anything to the page (I will work it in as I go along) as I think I need some help here. Interestingly, the Long Gallery is supposedly a first too - have you heard that before - I have refs for it, but I'm not sure I beleive them either.  Giacomo  11:30, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

No, not the overall composition, which is merely the chance result of the central temple-front appliqué and the switch to sash windows. I have Nicholas Cooper, Houses of the Gentry 1480-1680, 1999. It's such a good book: I offered to send it you once, I think, but I'd hate to part with it now. Cooper devotes a rare full-page photo of Webb's portico. There's no hesitation about Webb's responsibility: Howard Colvin, A Biographical Dictionary of British Architects 1600-1840, 3rd ed. 1995, notes two designs of capitals for "Mr Chute at the Vyne" one dated 1654 in Webb's "Book of Capitals" (which is either at Worcester or R.I.B.A.). The article marshalling evidence for Webb's presence in the interior alterations of 1654-56, is W.G. Keith, in Journal of the Royal Institute of British Architects, 3rd ser. 40 1933, p. 732. The contract of London mason Edward Marshall (he's also given an entry in Colvin) to build the portico, dated 4 March 1654, is in the Hampshire Record Office, according to the articles on The Vyne in Country Life 14-21 May 1921, and 3 January 1957.

Colvin simply calls The Vyne "the first country house portico". Cooper. writing on the origins of the English pedimented façade. remarks (p. 242) hipped roofs with pedimentlike devices at Wimpole (c 1640) and Cold Overton, but I'd say that The Vyne's pedimented portico, which he cautiously says gave the form a "powerful boost", was not just the result of decorating a cross-gable. Of The Vyne in the C16 Cooper notes (p. 296) two full chamber, withdrawing chamber, bedroom, office sequences in 1540, one named for the king and one for the queen (no royal visit took place).--Wetman (talk) 19:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh I had forgotten that book, funnily enough I went and bought it, but left it elsewhere - that's the trouble with living in several places at once. :-(. I accept Webb designed the portico, it just surprises me that he was so bad an architect. I toured the house last week, and was, I have to say, disapointed - it was a place I had wanted to see and read much about, but perhaps I am spoilt by seeing frequently too much of the best - so much had been done over the centuries that it seemed to me rather than harmonise and evolve - the house had lost the plot.  Giacomo  19:37, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

That grand doll's-house staircase! That early Long Gallery! I also remember (now fully forty years on) a spectacular pigeonhouse. Walpole's string of letters to John Chaloner Chute begin in 1743 with quite a funny one about roast beef and vegetarian diets. There must be something in them about the staircase, as I was all prepped for it when I arrived at the house. About two years before I found Wikipedia, I looked at decades of reading notes on 3x5 slips of papers, filed in drawers, and said "What am I ever going to do with that?" and buzzed the lot. Now I have pangs.--Wetman (talk) 20:14, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah the pigeonniere, yep I got a photo of that for the article (see the bottom of the page) except I think it's a summer house. The staircase - it seemed too big and out of proportion yet in another way - quite fun and whimsical - almost like something build as a temporary stage set. It will nedd a section all of its own. Sadly, I am too well acquainted with the gallery at Montacute to be impressed by the Vyne's, but I will give the house a good page and fair write up.  Giacomo  20:29, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Those are Vile and Cobb sophas, I remember, and against the wall, peeping out behind the lamp, is a Pierre Langlois French commode made in London.--Wetman (talk) 20:41, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

There was also a very nice table in that room (are they called "piat du jour") - I thought it night be quite special, but when I crawled underneath it was not. I'm not very good on interiors and furniture, I only write them up because the page has to have them, they are always a bit of a pennance for me.  Giacomo  20:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

PS: you would have laughed, see the dining room image, the National trust has gone very downmarket these days, the table was laid with plastic food!  Giacomo  20:46, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

There is raw plastic food in the kitchen at Erddig! By any chance, wWas that a bonheur du jour you were snooping under?--Wetman (talk) 20:51, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

No that's a little desk think, this was fully blown table'sdesk thing - i will get out my directoire of French furniture and have lool - I do get confused. No wonder, this place is enoough to confuse a saint sometimes.  Giacomo  20:59, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

A bureau plat? perhaps with cartonnière? I've crawled under some furniture myself, though not lately.--Wetman (talk) 21:17, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

That's the thing, but without the cartoniere. It seemed a little incongruous in the room.  Giacomo  21:34, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Cuyahoga River map

Looks like just one branch to me. - Denimadept (talk) 23:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't jibe with the article's assertion that the Cuyahoga River begins where the two branches join. If the caption were to read "Cuyahoga and Upper Cuyahoga watershed" that wouldn't be quite correct either. The narrowing of the watershed downstream suggests interesting paleogeography here. Not that I'm competent to summarise it... Let me copy this to Talk:Cuyahoga River. --Wetman (talk) 23:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Butter made in a buttery?

I suspect not, but this [4] is the sort of thing that you usually have an idea about.  Giacomo  13:02, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

No, that was the dairy. Made some tweaks to Buttery (room), so as to maintain my good reputation with you.--Wetman (talk) 18:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

It's interesting though isn't it, I wonder why candles were stored there too - perhaps because it ws cool to keep the beer cold so it was a good place for candles as they did not melt? Except the English like their beer worryingly warm.  Giacomo  18:56, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

If the pantler was in charge of the pantry, and the chandler in the chandlery responsible for lights, wasn't the butler in charge of the buttery? In summer it's hot enough here in New York for the candles to sag. --Wetman (talk) 19:15, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

you're most welcome

Hello, Wetman. You have new messages at Robertgreer's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of John Phillips (c 1709-1775) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. The paragraph that the hook comes from appears to be uncited (or just not have an inline citation). Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:59, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK for John Phillips (c 1709-1775)

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Favour

Could you very kindly do me a favour? Just do a google search on "mosque lamp" & summarize very briefly here what the top 5 hits are - like: MMA, Boston MFA, encyc Britannica, lighting co., ... whatever they are. And please don't start a stub! I have one in the wings. All for my "guided tour" on Friday at 2pm. Thanks Johnbod (talk) 14:25, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Sure. Is this what you wanted, comparing google searches in USA vs UK?:

Mamluk Dynasty mosque lamp, enamelled with the name and titles of Sayf al-Din Shaykhu al-Nasiri, Cairo, c. 1350-55 (British Museum).

Mamluk Dynasty mosque lamp, enamelled, c 1285 (Metropolitan Museum, acc. no. 17.190.985).

Mamluk Dynasty mosque lamp, enamelled ,ca. 1329–35 (Metropolitan Museum, acc. no. 17.190.991).

Ottoman Dynasty mosque lamp, for the Dome of the Rock, Jerusalem, Isnik, dated AD1549 (British Museum).

Mamluk Dynasty mosque lamp commissioned by Amir Sayf al-Din Shaykhu, Cairo, c. 1350-55 (British Museum).

Super, thanks! Odd, in the UK you get British Museum 1-3, Scottish govt body & V&A. I expected the US ones to be equally all-local. Did you see Giano's entered the arbcom elections again? Johnbod (talk) 15:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

No, but I'd vote for Giano. Interesting how localized Google searches are. Google scholar is often a better route.--Wetman (talk) 15:47, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Daniel D. Badger

Hello! Your submission of Daniel D. Badger at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! - Tim1965 (talk)

Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded on December 4

Your input for improvements to 2-in-1 hook of "Tower of Wooden Pallets, Daniel Van Meter" would be much appreciated. Since many of the pictures are Fair Use images, do you see a way how I can use a picture in DYK? The structure no longer exists. Thanks for any help you can provide, including any proofreading you may have time for.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 22:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I think they have a hard-and-fast rule about not permitting "fair use" images on the main page. But I'm not up on all the rules there. Let me check through Tower of Wooden Pallets.--Wetman (talk) 05:15, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I do believe "fair use" images on the main page are forboden. I was trying to think of an idea to spruce up my 2-in-1 hook. Thanks for looking over the articles for anything obviously wrong. Sometimes another pair of eyes see something the first pair misses.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:39, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I've used a picture (copyright free from Commons) of a junk pallet for the hook and modified the hook. Hope it still looks good.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 15:34, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for those excellent improvements to Tower of Wooden Pallets!--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Daniel D. Badger

The DYK project (nominate) 18:02, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

== Hello ==

this edit (not yours), edited at 11:27, violated the three revert rule, but I can't revert it myself, because I don't want to violate the three revert rule. Can you do me a favor and revert it yourself? Please revert this version, edited at 11:27, and please don't forget to add the following line (including the link), in the edit summary line:

revert a violation of three revert rule.

Eliko (talk) 13:22, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The Foreign relations of the Palestinian National Authority is not my subject. I'm sure there's lots of bad behavior there.--Wetman (talk) 13:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Proquest Archiver

I am working on a draft for Spragg Bag, a new "waterbag" technology for the delivery of large quanities of fresh water worldwide. There has been several newspaper articles written up on this for the last 15 years. However, many that I find in Google Archives are Pay-Per-View. Is there a way around this paying per view, like this one?
Is This Guy All Wet, or Could His Plan Work?; Entrepreneurs: Terry Spragg thinks he can fix our drought woes by bagging Washington's overflow and shipping it here. Some say his idea may, er, hold water.
Perhaps a library source or something like that. My local library does NOT have Proquest Archiver. Ideas?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 13:23, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

My only idea is through newspaper archives which I'm currently unable to view. I'll keep this in mind, Doug, when I re-up for access.--Wetman (talk) 13:51, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

This might amuse you

I scanned this page today, as I need the top edvert for my big page which is finally nearing completion, I was going to edit out all the things I didn't need, but then thought it was quite interesting as it was. It's from 1912 - American duchesses and countesses were reigning all over Europe and millions of young men were still alive. Happy days and the instant hot bath it seems had just been invented.  Giacomo  15:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

When I lived in Florence, if I wanted a bath I asked for one, and when it was ready, I was notified. In the mornings a big pitcher of hot water would be brought to my room, so that I could shave. Those days are not beyond living memory.

Dreary to see Trentham balustrades sold by the yard.--Wetman (talk) 18:44, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

• Not so dreary if you were the one to buy them, I wonder what became of them; now that would be intereting to know.  Giacomo  22:04, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, a coup for someone. Today,I'd think, they're somewhere right in plain sight, with the Trentham connection long forgotten. Probably not that far from Trentham itself, thinking of the added difficulty of shipping so much finished stonework about. --Wetman (talk) 22:30, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't know; an old neighbour had a lean-to back extension with cast iron window frames from The Crystal Palace and was well aware of it. Johnbod (talk) 01:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

3.5 million articles

English Wikipedia hit 3.5 million articles today. It is expanding faster than anyone can read it... and sometimes you can tell.--Wetman (talk) 19:17, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Anti-abolitionist riots (1834)

Hi. Using online newspaper databases (The Times and the NYTimes) I've been trying to add references to this article, but the account given in contemporary sources varies from the one given in reference books, though none of them seem totally reliable. I see you contributed to the early stages of this article, are you able to help sort some things out?RLamb (talk) 11:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I merely added a link to an on-line excerpt of Headley, Joel Tyler. Great Riots of New York 1712 to 1873... (New York, 1873). I'll check the Wikipedia article against the account in Edwin G. Burrows and Mike Wallace, Gotham: a history of New York City to 1898, 2000.--Wetman (talk) 11:43, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. The two sources I'm using are The Times(1834) and the New York Times(1876). Both see the riots quite differently, TT as basically a race riot, the NYT as colourful shenanigans caused by a spat between actors. RLamb (talk) 13:24, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Burrows and Wallace cover the riots extensively, giving the social context for Irish, free Blacks, and evangelical abolitionists, in Ch. 33 "White, Green and Black" pp 542ff. especially pp 556-59. The role of the champion of repatriating "colonization", James Watson Webb, through his gutter press Courier and Enquirer is touched on. Carefully coordinated "shenanigans" in which Lewis Tappan's house was stripped of its furnishings which were burned in the street, and mob violence in which however no blacks were actually lynched seems an appraisal that's less than appropriate. --Wetman (talk) 21:42, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, this is helpful. I see now neither of my sources gives more than a narrow view of a complex event which very much needs to be placed in its broad historical and social context. But, I don't have access to a copy of Burrows and Wallace. This is a pity because I really feel what the article needs most is a balanced overview. As it stands there are probably inaccuracies (e.g. it mentions a George Washington Dixon performing a blackface act to quell the disturbance at the Bowery, whereas the NYT says it was a popular businessman called George Washington Browne who simply spoke to the crowd) - but I'm more worried by its lack of narrative clarity. It just doesn't give a very coherent picture of how the riots began, how they developed, or how abolitionists and the black community became the mob's target. And in the final paragraph a casual reader might assume it was somehow the snotty abolitionists who 'provoked' the whole thing.RLamb (talk) 09:35, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Guess I'd better get it in line as a summary report of what's in Burrows and Wallace, for a start. Please have a look at the article as it now stands.--Wetman (talk) 19:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, this is so much better. I can't add anything, apart from notes regarding a possible slightly alternative scenario for what happened inside the Bowery, taken from the NYTimes account. (You can access this yourself if you like, and if you have the time, at www.nytimes.org, searching the archive with the term "McKinney Riots".)RLamb (talk) 00:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Papyrus and 'currently'

I thought those tags were correct - articles may not be touched for years, so 'currently' has little meaning -- or they may be downloaded as books, etc. Dougweller (talk) 16:03, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Anonymous IP User:76.100.17.21 tagged the statements

"Bodmer Papyri — This collection was purchased by Martin Bodmer in 1955–1956. Currently it is housed in the Bibliotheca Bodmeriana in Cologny."

"Oxyrhynchus Papyri — these numerous papyri fragments were discovered by Grenfell and Hunt in and around Oxyrhynchus. The publication of these papyri is still in progress."

As I noted in my edit summary, "currently" means nowadays. You seriously feel that these require a query tag? That the Bibliotheca Bodmeriana may burn down or be dispersed at auction,? Or that the Oxyrhyncus Papyri series may be completed one day? I'm at a loss. --Wetman (talk) 16:16, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't like the word 'currently'. It doesn't seem necessary for the Bodmer library statement, for a start. But I guess I need to see if there are any guidelines on this. Dougweller (talk) 17:03, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

You don't like the word "currently".--Wetman (talk) 17:20, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

That's right. Or 'recently'. I also see FA reviews criticising the use of such temporal language. Dougweller (talk) 19:59, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh.

I never see Favored Article reviews, thereby preserving my limited resources of patience. Perhaps you'll be searching "currently" at Wikipedia and removing it wherever you find it. Begin with Eleventh Doctor, the "current"- er, so to speak- Dr. Who.--Wetman (talk) 20:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Battle of Zappolino

Materialscientist (talk) 00:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the copy edit

Thanks for the copy edit you did on Kataragama temple, it passed GA a few days ago. I couldn’t have done it without your help. Kanatonian (talk) 13:50, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh that's good to hear.--Wetman (talk) 23:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Cesar Franck

Thank you for the tip on placement of images with respect to headings -- very useful. Originalylem (talk) 21:30, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, you're welcome! It's sort of counter-intuitive to place the image ahead of the section heading.--Wetman (talk) 23:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Olympic mascots plus

I agree with your comment, on your talk page, concerning the 2004 Olympic mascots. I remember the first time that I saw them I just could not believe the poor choice of design. But have you seen the 2012 games logo for London? If you have ever watched a single episode of "The Simpsons" you'll automatically know that the designers of Olympic mascots and logos must be deliberately marketing porn for the masses. I enjoyed reading your talk page and would like to ask you if you might be kind enough to express your opinion at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Turkish_Republic_of_Northern_Cyprus_Representative_Office_in_New_York and hope, in so doing, that I am not breaking any Wikipedia rules (there appears to be a great deal of red tape to trip over in "WikiWorld"). Obviously, I have no idea what your opinion will be. But at least it will be honest. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 21:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'm so flattered by your confidence in my honesty, I've posted as honestly as I could at the discussion. Ordinarily Cyprus, Serbia and Ireland are all in my no-fly zone. --Wetman (talk) 21:48, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you kind sir. I've been on holiday to Cyprus three times. It's a very tidy place, mostly due to the legacy of British administration, and there are many excellent fish restaurants. Lots of opportunity for diving too. Paphos was my favorite town. That's where I encountered a photogenic pelican who liked to mingle with the tourists. I confidently stood right next to him. As he started to turn his head, his large beak swung towards me, I was far too close for comfort so I quickly, but very smoothly, side-stepped several times to avoid collision. The end result was an excellent photograph of a pelican with the tip of its beak one inch away from my ear and me leaning away, like the Tower of Pisa, with my eyes firmly focussed on the beak. Sometimes I get that exact same feeling on Wikipedia. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 23:09, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Illegitimi non carborundum, eh.--Wetman (talk) 03:53, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

:-) Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 16:04, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Balthasar Denner

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Balthasar Denner requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Cind.amuse 18:56, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Apparently this thoughtless action was quickly reverted by someone who watches AfD. Not I. A minor painter, IMO, nevertheless.--Wetman (talk) 19:51, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

• Please watch the personal attacks. It's nothing personal, really. This article wasn't sent to discussion. If it had been, we would continue to discuss it through next week. The article was flagged as an A7 deletion, failing to indicate the significance or importance of the subject. Another editor came along and appropriately removed the template and according to process, added content to support notability. At this point, the article needs support through significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. Best regards, Cind.amuse 21:10, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I considered "thoughtless" to be tactful. Surely it was not intended to delete a new article on this German painter. A previous article was deleted some while back apparently, and without pausing for thought— one would hope— the move to redelete was pressed forward. Nothing personal: it is the action that, I hope, was thoughtless. Apparently this action was quickly reverted by someone who watches AfD. No harm done. Nothing personal about it. --Wetman (talk) 23:21, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

• To imply that an individual's actions are thoughtless is a personal attack and inappropriate. The action of applying a CSD tag has nothing to do with the AfD process. This article (or any previous one) was never sent to Articles for Discussion. The revert has nothing to do with watching AfD. The article was also never speedy deleted previously, under this name. Cind.amuse 23:43, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

The notice above, which opened this thread announced a speedy deletion nomination. I have no idea who put up the article for deletion and don't care one way or t'other. Nothing personal about it. "Chill out. It's Wikipedia. Not heart surgery," a wise editor has asserted. How is it, that whenever one is wielding a large cream pie, there's always someone who jumps upon a chair, shouting "That pie is for me! That pie is for me!" --Wetman (talk) 00:07, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

• I see the misunderstanding now. The CSD process and the AFD process are two separate and distinct deletion policies of Wikipedia and you were using them interchangeably. I misunderstood to what you were referring. On another note, I have no idea what the pie allegory means, but the visual gives me a chuckle. Thanks for the levity. Cind.amuse 00:29, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Centauroid creature for deletion

The article Centauroid creature is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Centauroid creature until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Polisher of Cobwebs (talk) 23:47, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Two cents's worth

IF you care to, could you put your two cent's worth in at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Cemetery_lot_brain_teaser

Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 17:50, 15 January 2011 (UTC)