User talk:Sarah Pesto

Welcome!

Hello, Sarah Pesto, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Jon Moses, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's content policies and may not be retained. In short, the topic of an article must be notable and have already been the subject of publication by reliable and independent sources.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, ask me on my talk page or you can just type {{help me}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! CUPIDICAE💕 15:10, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Jon Moses

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You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Jon Moses requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jon Moses. When a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after a discussion, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. CUPIDICAE💕 15:10, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

April 2022

Hello Sarah Pesto. The nature of your edits, such as the one you made to Draft:Jon Moses, gives the impression you have an undisclosed financial stake in promoting a topic, but you have not complied with Wikipedia's mandatory paid editing disclosure requirements. Paid advocacy is a category of conflict of interest (COI) editing that involves being compensated by a person, group, company or organization to use Wikipedia to promote their interests. Undisclosed paid advocacy is prohibited by our policies on neutral point of view and what Wikipedia is not, and is an especially serious type of COI; the Wikimedia Foundation regards it as a "black hat" practice akin to black-hat search-engine optimization.

Paid advocates are very strongly discouraged from direct article editing, and should instead propose changes on the talk page of the article in question if an article exists. If the article does not exist, paid advocates are extremely strongly discouraged from attempting to write an article at all. At best, any proposed article creation should be submitted through the articles for creation process, rather than directly.

Regardless, if you are receiving or expect to receive compensation for your edits, broadly construed, you are required by the Wikimedia Terms of Use to disclose your employer, client and affiliation. You can post such a mandatory disclosure to your user page at User:Sarah Pesto. The template {{Paid}} can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form: {{paid|user=Sarah Pesto|employer=InsertName|client=InsertName}}. If I am mistaken – you are not being directly or indirectly compensated for your edits – please state that in response to this message. Otherwise, please provide the required disclosure. In either case, do not edit further until you answer this message. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 14:13, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello. Thank you for getting in touch with me. I am not being paid for my edits. Sarah Pesto (talk) 17:33, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

@Curb Safe Charmer Hi. I'm just writing to let you know that I am not being compensated for my edits. Sarah Pesto (talk) 04:25, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

@Curb Safe Charmer If you need more verification that I'm not being paid for my edits, please contact Jon Moses at [email protected]. Sarah Pesto (talk) 15:50, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

It sounds like you know him? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

@Curb Safe Charmer I'm a fan. I also support other artists like Puddles Pity Party. Sarah Pesto (talk) 20:27, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

@Curb Safe Charmer I found his email from one of his artist pages. Sarah Pesto (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Jon Moses

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Jon Moses requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jon Moses. When a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after a discussion, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:30, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

This is a great way to prove that you're not a paid editor, continually spamming a non-notable subject and dodging the answer to the above question! PRAXIDICAE💕 19:40, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Praxidicae I am afraid I see the same rationale as I did when I nominated it last time. I don't have admin goggles, so I can't compare this version with the deleted version. I do appreciate the work put in by the creating editor, but I major on quality for Wikipedia as do you. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:46, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Your move of Jon Moses to Draft:Jon Moses

As the creating editor, your moving this to Draft while the speedy deletion notice is on it is tantamount to removing that notice yourself, in order to see to dodge deletion. I realise that you wish to seek to protect the work youi have done, but your actions are starting to stretch my good faith. It seems to me that Praxidicae is making a valid point, above, the more so since the article once contained the name and contact details of Moses's agent/promoter.

Moses fails WP:NMUSICIAN and will continue to fail it unless he does something that makes him pass. Whisking it to be an article and then back to draft makes no difference to his run of the mill career.

I perceive you now as not being here to create an encyclopaedia because of this most recent action. I suggest most strongly that you keep to the letter and spirit of the rules here in order to retain editing privileges. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:45, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent I wasn't trying to dodge deletion. I just felt that you all didn't feel it was ready to be on the mainpage. I'm going to work on cleaning it up. This is really hard for me as I've never written an article for Wikipedia. I've worked really hard and then to have all my hard work disliked really hurts. I'll work as best as I can. Sarah Pesto (talk) 23:05, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

It is obvious that you have worked hard. Writing an article here from scratch is very hard, writing a biography is, probably, the hardest type of article to write.

Liking or disliking an article is irrelevant. I like many topics that will never make it here. I dislike many articles that are here, but we have to stand aside from liking or disliking. Our pillars are WP:N and WP:V. However much I like a topic, if it failed either of those then it fails to get a page here. I like me a lot. I fail WP:N. I have written a book. It fails WP:N. Neither will get an article here and neither should do so.

Please read this essay on article creation. It contains a process that will deliver results if results are deliverable. Set what you have written aside, and find, first, all reference material that meets our criteria. If you can find three separate, independent, reliable sources that provide significant coverage of Moses then you have your green light.

• Significant coverage is more than three paragraphs about Moses
• Independent sources are those that are written by others about Moses
• Reliable sources pass WP:RS, the most arduous and complex element
• About Moses means about Moses, not about the show he is in, unless there is substantial critique, for example, of his performance - significant coverage.

All of these must be true for a reference to work. I am now going to encapsulate that in a paragraph for you.

For a living person we have a high standard of referencing. Every substantive fact you assert, especially one that is susceptible to potential challenge, requires a citation with a reference that is about them, and is independent of them, in multiple secondary sources which are WP:RS, and is significant coverage. Please also see WP:PRIMARY which details the limited permitted usage of primary sources and WP:SELFPUB which has clear limitations on self published sources. Providing sufficient references, ideally one per fact cited, that meet these tough criteria is likely to make this draft a clear acceptance (0.9 probability). Lack of them or an inability to find them is likely to mean that the person is not suitable for inclusion, certainly today.

Your objective is not to write Moses's life story. It is only to write and reference sufficient material for the article to be accepted. Let me give you an example. Look at Elsie Reasoner Ralph. It is very brief, but Ralph is notable. It passes all the tests. It does all it needs to for an article where information is scant.

Please, when you have finished the rewritten draft to your satisfaction (which really means it will pass the scrutiny of others), use the submission process to submit it for review. Recognise that you may not be the best judge of acceptability and let others judge it before it is moved to man space and let them move it there. I have added a template at the head which will allow you to do this with ease.

The reviewer's role is to seek to ensure that an article will not immediately be subject to one of our deletion processes when it is accepted. That is why we push it back to the author. We want to accept articles. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:10, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent I'm beginning to understand this a bit. Thank you. I'm going to check out Elsie Reasoner Ralph. Thank you for giving me a little something to go on. I'm going to work really hard to correct my mistakes. Sarah Pesto (talk) 07:39, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

The only mistakes that you have made are in the good faith creation of a biography of a non notable musician. However good he might be, he is just a cabaret and regional musical singer. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:44, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and, of course, moving the article to Draft: twice while deletion tags were placed upon it. It was not an appropriate act. Consensus is that the article stays where it is until the process is completed. It was, thus, a move against consensus. Please take this message as a formal warning not to do so again. Receiving sufficient warnings will mean your editing privileges are removed. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent Okay. Thank you. I didn't know. Thank you for communicating this with me. I just don't know all the rules about wikipedia. I appreciate any and all help and feedback. Sarah Pesto (talk) 08:10, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

We make allowances for new editors making honest errors. The very best editors here started out making huge mistakes. We think "So what?"

What we expect is that editors will start to master the steep learning curve fast, and will then engage in an interesting hobby. The way to learn the rules is to consider "Would my white haired 97 year old sweet and morally correct grandmother consider what I am about to do to be appropriate?" If you feel she might not, then ask for advice. WP:TEAHOUSE is a good place to ask questions.

Wikipedia is run by consensus. Consensus means that we, which includes you, decide upon all policies. Once consensus is formed we have a duty to abide by it even if we disagree with it strongly. If our disagreement is fundamental we are entitled to question consensus as it obtains currently and seek to form a new consensus. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 09:30, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent I really appreciate all of this information. Thank you. Sarah Pesto (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I see you have taken the bull by the horns. I hope you find sufficient to build back and to make the article acceptable.

Soundcloud, by the way, is deprecated as a reference, as is IMDB, Youtube, Vimeo, etc etc. Anything user edited fails WP:RS 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:47, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes I have. Thank you. Sarah Pesto (talk) 20:53, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Jon Moses has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Jon Moses. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:15, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I think you hit gold. See my comment. Build it around charting albums with the rest as peripheral and I think it probably flies 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:23, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Remember, all you want is for it to go live and stay undeleted. Any extras can be added by, well, anyone 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:23, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent Yes. Live and undeleted is my goal. Thank you. Sarah Pesto (talk) 22:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Once it goes live, assuming it does, be its father, not its mother. Let it graze its knees, Avoid the temptation to feed it cake and milk. Let it grow by the hand of others 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:52, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent Oh wow. Thank you so much. Sarah Pesto (talk) 22:47, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Fingers crossed. I think I will stand back from reviewing it, certainly for a while.

I'd steer clear of the hair products stuff. It militates against acceptance. Find WP:RS that talk of his album and its reception. The chart place needs better verification than the Bucks Free Press. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:54, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent Okay. Thank you. Sarah Pesto (talk) 22:58, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I've added the parameter 'quote=' to the bucks free press reference. Can you find an official UK album chart reference for the album, position, and date? For me that would bolt the chart position in. Bucks Free Press is sort of reliable, kind of, in a way, probably. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:31, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm having trouble doing that thing. See https://www.officialcharts.com/search/artists/jon%20moses/ and https://www.officialcharts.com/search/albums/journey/ but this may not be the right country. I have little time this morning 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 07:37, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I have, after searching in a relaxed manner, found nothing official to corroborate the 5th placing, nor any place, in any UK album chart. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 11:18, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jon Moses (April 25)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Curb Safe Charmer was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jon Moses and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Jon Moses, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 10:23, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I fear that @Curb Safe Charmer is correct unless you can find something to corroborate the album. My excitement for you of yesterday is short lived. This means, too, that I am glad I did not accept it without asking you for more. Acceptance would have meant WP:AFD which would have made it even more difficult to create a further time.

I'm sorry to have raised your hopes. My own research has failed on this chap and his album, and I think the album was likely to be your best hope. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 11:22, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent It's okay. I'll keep working on it and check out Teahouse. Sarah Pesto (talk) 12:05, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk‎ will offer the opinions of other reviewers. Their opinions tend to be unvarnished, direct, unfiltered, and correct 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:23, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

@Timtrent Thank you. You've also been very helpful. I appreciate that. Sarah Pesto (talk) 15:00, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Sarah Pesto! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 10:23, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Jon Moses

Hello, Sarah Pesto. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Jon Moses, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 13:01, 26 September 2022 (UTC)