User talk:Ronsax
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Npov Notice[edit]
First of, nice work on the Ron Holloway article. It certainly looks pretty good now. However, i feel inclined to warn you to keep the article inside the WP:NPOV guidelines. In short it means that text such as "The Great Trumpeter" and in general and quality words such as "The Best", "Number one" and "The Greatest" should not be used in articles, as they state a persons opinion, not a certainty. With kind regards, Excirial (Talk,Contribs) 10:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
- That last edit was perfect, a lot better then mine. Also, i noticed you removed the }} a few times. This }} is used to denote the end of an infobox (The box with the picture and the info). You wont see it in the text, as the wikipedia parser will just translate it into the appropriately infobox HTML. Keep up the good work, and if you need any assistance, feel free to contact me :) --Excirial (Talk,Contribs) 10:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Potential conflict of interest[edit]
If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Ron Holloway, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
- editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with,
- participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors,
- linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam);
- and you must always:
- avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.
For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest. Also, please read Wikipedia:Autobiography. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 22:02, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Are you?[edit]
Are you Ron Holloway? I came to this userpage because I was curious (based on your edit history) and noticed that someone else left you the above message for basically the same reason. If you are in fact Mr. Holloway, please know that you are welcome to edit here (and we're glad to have you). If you have any questions about how Wikipedia works, or how to add things without getting them deleted, feel free to ask me on my talkpage by clicking on the "76" in my signature. Welcome to Wikipedia -- Keeper | 76 19:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, got your message - glad you're here! Keep up the good editing. As you know, you are welcome to edit ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING you want. If you get to a random page, see that a comma is missing, you can add it, no questions asked. It tends to get rather addicting though, so if you're a busy man you may not want to start..:-)
- My only advice to you really is to be careful not to add "personal stuff" to your own article. First reason, of course, is because millions of people can read it. You may not want everyone knowing that much about you. The second reason is because millions of people can edit it. That means anyone can change anything you add for any reason, at any time. Because this article is about you, some editors may decide that you shouldn't be editing your own article because of the guidelines. You can read these by clicking here: WP:OWN WP:COI WP:POV. While I think the guidelines are important, I'll also say that there is no one who knows you like you do. Just be sure that the things you are adding are things you'd want other people to know. Don't use words like "I'm the best...." and "Renowned" and "Greatest". It will make other editors jump all over you, which gets stressful.
- Hey Mr. Holloway, haven't checked in with you in a while. Hope you're doing well. I just looked at the article you've been focused on and have to say it's looking really good (in my opinion). One thing I'd be careful of though is making the article too long. By making it so large, you may be drawing unwanted attention to yourself, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone (not me) stumbles into it and seriously edits it down (removes information). I recommend looking for other articles that you can edit, other interests unrelated to your "real life" and editing those for awhile. The Ron Holloway article is good, but since you are the only editor, it's only a matter of time before someone brings up a conflict of interest argument against you. I'd hate to see that happen because you've worked so hard to make it reflect your accomplishments. If you look at the conflict of interest page, you'll see that the way to get an article about yourself written is to let someone else write it. Just some friendly advice, move on to other things and enjoy Wikipedia! Cheers my friend, Keeper | 76 21:53, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
You need help?[edit]
How can I help you Ron? I'm online today only this week, hope I catch you "live". Keeper ǀ 76 14:39, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
From Leahtwosaints[edit]
Did you know you can answer me here? I know it's stressful with an admin. working over your shoulder, but I'll help you pull those banners down. I take it you are new at this, so just leave me a note. No hard feelings, we just need to know where this stands. --leahtwosaints (talk) 09:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Leah! How are you? Wow, you and I knew each other around the late '70's into the early eighties! (I saw where you said that.) I know you're in my corner and I don't mind your help at all. Yes, I'm definitely new at this but I enjoy working on websites so I learn very fast. I'm sorry if my sending you emails upset you. I didn't mean to do that which is why none of those emails contained any anger. I was disturbed because I realized YOU thought someone was breaching copyright laws. Imagine my horror when that came across my mind- knowing I had composed those words on my Official site as well as the Wiki page. I was horrorfied because I knew I am not by any means guilty of that! I was trying to figure out some way to let you know what was REALLY behind the similarity in the language. I DON'T know your email address. When I went to your Talk page there is a link that reads "email this user" or something like that. THAT is how I was able to email you. You were being emailed by me but I had no idea what address those emails were going to. Sorry about the number(6 you said) of emails fired off very rapidly. I was desperate to prove my innocence. I haven't sent you any emails since Monday night. All of those emails were sent- one behind the other because I kept thinking of different things I wanted you to know. I very much want to have an accurate, factual page on Wikipedia that meets Wikipedia's standards. I'm not interested in using it to promote myself. I've had a very productive career playing with some historic figures like Dizzy Gillespie, Gil Scott-Heron, the Allman Brothers Band, Taj Mahal, John Hiatt, Delbert McClinton, Sonny Rollins, Freddie Hubbard, Dr. John and the list literally goes on. However, if you notice I don't mention all of these names. I only mention artists that I have an ongoing relationship with. There are MANY details I mention on my "Official" site that I know I cannot mention on the Wiki site.
I had already thought of putting "From Wikipedia" at the top of my "Official Website" bio but I realized it wouldn't be altogether true because if you really scrutinize each paragraph the details and the TYPES of details vary GREATLY from one another. There are also headings and paragraphs on the Wiki article that don't exist on my "Official" bio. For instance on my Official bio there are no headings or paragraphs on Little Feat, Derek Trucks, Warren Haynes, Gregg Allman or Susan Tedeschi. My "Official" website bio is grossly BEHIND when it comes to updated activity. YEARS behind! Of course SOME of the wording has been brought up to speed because once I "perfected" the language on Wikipedia I couldn't stand to read the more clumsy language of earlier drafts. Anyway, on closer scrutiny I think you will find if you compare my "Official" bio to the Wikipedia article about HALF the wording of each paragraph is written verbatim. The two versions differ substantially. This is why I don't really feel comfortable posting "From Wikipedia".
Anyway, thank you for your offer to "help you pull those banners down". It breaks my heart to look at those banners on my page. I'd very much like to improve the article so they can be removed! Help me, Leah--HELP ME!!! Haha! Certainly there are no hard feelings! If you can help me I'll be forever grateful. You would be my automatic guest to any show you cared to attend. (That's not bribery!) Tell me what to do to bring the quality to an acceptable level and I'll do it!
OK, I'm going to sign off because this is long.
Thank you, Leah and a HUGE THANKS to Aleta for her very helpful edit!
Sincerely,
Ron
Leah, I just noticed this message you left:
OK, Ronsax, first, this has nothing to do with Root Boy Slim, although I met Ron through his work with him when I was a teenager, that is true. The issue is that if you wrote everything for his website, it now must be listed on that website (his) too; that all the information was created here on the wikipedia. We cannot have mirror websites. This is an encyclopedia! Am I speaking to Ron himself? Or another person? I will help you with the work on this article if you wish, so we can pull these banners down, but I need to know your ties to Ron Holloway or whatever bands he's worked with- I'm familiar with several. You can leave a note on my talk page. I saw all the time consuming work you have put into the article, and that's why I didn't do anything foolish like delete it, but you really need to clarify your ties to Ron and your intentions with the website. If this is your first article, let me know. Thanks. --leahtwosaints (talk) 09:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ron_Holloway" Cat
I didn't answer this message directly because I just noticed it a few minutes ago. First of all anyone who I met back then in the context of Root Boy Slim's band is AUTOMATICALLY a FRIEND! That's HUGE that you liked Slim and you and I met back then. You and I AUTOMATICALLY have a meaningful bond. I wonder if I'd recognize you if I saw you, Leah. This is Ron or Ronsax. It's ME Leah. :-) Your friend from all those years ago. Back then I used to jam or sit in with a LOT of D.C. bands. I was actually a member of the Sex Change Band of course but I also used to sit in with Babe, Catfish Hodge, Jr. Cline, Dr. Goodfoot and the Toxic Socks, Bill Holland, Danny Gatton, Billy Price and the Keystone Rhythm Band, Mike Cotter and others. The venues back then were the Psychedelly, the Childe Harolde, Desperados, The Cellar Door, the Bayou, the Crazy Horse, etc. Convinced yet, my dear? Haha! Yes, this is my very first article here on Wikipedia and I appreciate the significance of this medium. I am honored to have such an opportunity to make a meaningful contribution! One thing Leah; this is by no means a mirror of my other website for so MANY reasons. Look closer. Only SOME of the sentences from each paragraph are verbatim. The content of each paragraph on my "Official" site veers away from the content of the Wiki article. Case in point:
- 2nd paragraph from my "Official" site:
In the Biographical Encyclopedia of Jazz, renowned jazz critic Ira Gitler describes Ron Holloway as "a bear-down-hard-bopper who can blow authentic R&B, and croon a ballad with warm, blue feeling." While true, this only begins to touch upon the versatility of the tenor saxophonist! The quest for complete expression has been a hallmark of Ron Holloway's music from the beginning. Born August 24th, 1953, Ron grew up in a household where listening to jazz was a favorite pastime. His parents, Winston and Marjorie Holloway were, and remain avid jazz listeners. "My parents met while attending Howard University, in Washington, D.C. They both loved jazz and would frequently go to concerts at the Howard Theatre.
- Corresponding paragraph from Wikipedia as it originally appeared for many months:
Ronald Edward "Ron" Holloway (born August 24, 1953 in Washington, D.C.) is an American tenor saxophonist known for his ability to adapt to virtually any musical environment. In the Biographical Encyclopedia of Jazz renowned jazz critic Ira Gitler describes Ron Holloway as "a bear-down-hard-bopper who can blow authentic R&B and croon a ballad with warm, blue feeling."
- As the paragraph currently appears (after your contribution):
Ronald Edward "Ron" Holloway, born August 24, 1953 in Washington, D.C., is an American tenor saxophonist known for his ability to adapt to a variety of musical genres. In the Biographical Encyclopedia of Jazz [1] jazz critic Ira Gitler describes Holloway as "a bear-down-hard-bopper who can blow authentic R&B and croon a ballad with warm, blue feeling."[2]
These 3 versions share SOME of the same wording...By necessity the quote from Ira Gitler but they are fundamentally different. This holds true for each and every paragraph if you carefully A-B the articles. By no means is one a carbon copy of the other.
Anyway, I welcome your help friend Leah.
Ronsax (talk) 12:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
From Leah- Ron, some thoughts[edit]
Hi Ron, I left you a long, detailed answer to your message to me, and am thrilled to have found you like, 30 years later! Old friends. Wow. Ok, first, my brotha', I added the template above to help you learn to use the wikipedia. Maybe YOU can help me! For example, do you know who took the photographs of Ron Holloway playing saxophone with Susan Tedeschi or Derek Trucks like the ones on the official website? Because they're needed both for the Ron Holloway page- you want a really notable page, right? And needed for The Derek Trucks Band,Derek Trucks for the "Soul Stew Revival" section, and especially for Susan Tedeschi's page. I can give you the information to upload pics so other wikipedias around the world will also have the ability to use them on their pages, as well. THAT would be great for me, and we'd be even, OK??? Pretty please?
Your editing. Since it IS your first article, I know you need some help, and am willing to mentor you here. You're a quick learner! As you know now, no bolding except for the name or stage name of the person in the biography. Never start a sentence without the left part of the page covered up, or you will
get a sentence like this. see?
All terms that people who aren't native speakers of English should have two brackets around them, like this word: [[English]], and that's called "wikifying" the article, along with putting the same brackets around the names of all performers, places, etc. that are in the text. So in your article, words that you would like to use to draw attention, like saxophone should also get brackets. If there is no page for the word, then remove the brackets so it won't show up like this-- the Psychedelly, which never got a page, yet, at least! ;)
Last, as this is an encyclopedia, every claim made in a biography about someone here must have a reference. This means research of noteworthy articles. All articles from blogs like "Blogspot" are not acceptable... however, sometimes they list where they found the information they use, and you can follow that trail, using Google or some other search engine to find the actual noteworthy publication where their claims come from. Good examples of references are periodicals, newspapers, like the Washington Post and other publications, including books, and all that, to show the claims aren't just bragging or lies. And, when you use the information in the text of the article, like, "The New Yorker has said that Ron Holloway is a wonderful performer," you must place two apostrophes before the name of the publication, in this case, the ''New Yorker'' to get the effect you see above. Well, that's all for now, so, since I'm the primary editor on the Derek Trucks article, and the newest one-- The Derek Trucks Band, as well as Susan Tedeschi, I hope to hear from you soon! Peace! --leahtwosaints (talk) 15:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
- Leah,
It's so generous what you've done for me ALREADY! It's greatly appreciated. You realize you're the principle editor for MY BOSS and her husband! I just performed with Derek LAST NIGHT at Merriweather Post Pavilon! I'll help you with those photos. Speak with you soon, Ronsax (talk) 15:42, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
- Ron, that's so cool! I'd give anything to see you play with Derek. That's one of the reasons I'm the primary editor on his page here! I'd heard he'd be playing in the Strathmore, but I think the tickets were pretty high, and I couldn't afford them. I'm dying to begin pages for Kofi, Mike, Onrico, Todd, and Count,- since I only just began the page for The Derek Trucks Band.. must be nice to be so famous! I just left another note for you on the talk page for Ron Holloway. You know, it would be nice to get together and talk with you sometime. I live in Hyattsville, Maryland now, near Prince George's Plaza. This is wild! One day I want to hear The dTb or Soul Stew play, if I don't reach old age before Derek turns 30, of course! LOL..
Questions for you[edit]
Hey Ron, I need to know some things, and hopefully you can assist me. One: in the little infobox, I need to know what record labels you have recorded under (OK, I'm lazy and don't wanna go through the text,) aside from Fantasy records. Another thing- in the infobox, it has an area of "Notable Instruments", like, for guitarists, say, an old Fender Stratocaster or an Epiphone Casino from the old days. Is there such a notable sax? Do you own a sax that you feel would be considered an instrument to strive for, and treasure above the others? I'm afraid I don't know enough about them. Also, although you are notable for your work on the tenor sax, I know you could play alto sax if you wanted to, but are there any other instruments you play even just for fun? I once learned the clarinet, and know how easy it is to go from learning one woodwind instrument to another (unless you keep breaking the reeds like I did, LOL).
I know you recorded with Dizzy, Root Boy, Osiris, etc. and for the sake of time, have you recorded on any of Susan Tedeschi's albums? I saw you playing some solos with her on You Tube, and wonder if you actually recorded with her on any of the numbers on Just Won't Burn, or any others? Have the Soul Stew Sessions produced any record albums? Last, I'm seriously trimming some of your wording now. Tell me if any of it bothers you, or if you can reference quotes and such to retain them. NOTHING is ever lost on wikipedia, not even old versions of the pages; if you see in the edit history, you can find the original version all the way to the current one, so no fears! Please would you do me a favor? Have a look at Derek Trucks, Susan Tedeschi (sad to say, I've been focusing more on Derek b/c of his tour with Eric Clapton that her page is coming around last, and she's a helluva singer.. OH! And please see the beginnings of The Derek Trucks Band. Tell me honestly what you think of them; they are only "Start" articles- as well as the one we began for Tal Wilkenfeld (she's amazing; have you met her??) and let me know what you think of what's been done with the other articles, OK? Thanks.
One last thing. If someone writes you like I've just done, you don't have to copy the message. No matter where it is on a talk page, if you place your answer right in the same message by clicking "edit" and answering by Placing a semicolon at the start of a sentence, you should get this--
- Thus, you will easily be able to see who wrote what, AND the person you wish to contact will get a note at the top of the screen when they open a new article or begin work on one the next time. Just remember to click the little button up top or put four tildes like this ~~~~and whomever you wrote to will get the answer. Plus, there's always email. I'm eating myself alive with envy to come see all the musicians I've mentioned above, including you! --leahtwosaints (talk) 16:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Discography[edit]
Hey- I began the Discography section, which probably will end up needing it's own page eventually, given the breadth of musical groups with whom Ron Holloway has guested. However, I wanted you to get a look of how it might be. I tidied up Gil Scott-Heron's page as best as I quickly could, and found some discrepancies in labels/imprints (differing Countries, geez..) and dates.If you can clear them up (just fix it?), please, do so, and then do it on Gil's page just to make sure they agree with each other. Can you find the major label from whence certain imprints have sprung? It would help make the discog. nicer. A great thing about the discography is that it's not something you have to prove and reference: the information is someplace recorded on some website anyway, if a person is determined to be certain of it. And all changes I made by eliminating links that aren't necessary in doing so can always be recovered if you want them by looking at the previous edit. You know how to get in touch if you have questions. Last, I'll try to get at those links later on. Might be a nice short page to do articles on Black Wax and other items not yet in the Wikipedia, not to mention articles on albums, etc. Peace. --leahtwosaints (talk) 06:56, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Ron, see what I've done[edit]
Contact me ASAP, OK? I need to know how we can proceed- staying on the same page, etc. (no pun intended) Will you be coming to Bethesda, or are you home already? Either way, before more of the Discography is placed in the article, know that the singles are kept in one place, then the albums (whether vinyl or CD), even if the same artist has been mentioned. The real task is now to take all the articles and weave the information from the (AHEM, NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS!) and other links into the text, as I did with Rollins and Osiris to some extent, and that overly long (for Wikipedia) quote about the passing of Gillespie. THAT is what makes a great encylopedic article, including the good and bad; failure and achievements, regardless of how the person appears later, their legacy is generally, in THIS case, anyway, in print. Get in touch! --leahtwosaints (talk) 02:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Ron you must contact me[edit]
Call me. Email if calling is impossible. But there are too many ways you are not following Wikipedia guidelines, that I can just tell you verbally especially, and save you a LOAD of work (as well as saving ME time too... please don't erase or revert my edits till you know why I have done them. Either way, I believe I can help, just get in touch. OK? I'm going to bed. I'll be up tomorrow, Sunday AM by 9 AM for sure, and staying home. Thanks. --leahtwosaints (talk) 05:59, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Ron, here are some pointers-[edit]
Please, see WP:RELY about reliable sources, what can and can't be used in pages. I've seen that you began to do some "inline referencing" on your own after the model I showed you, and that's great, but I've noticed that many times, the references do not actually support the claims the author (YOU) is making. IMDB is not really reliable, it might squeeze by in a pinch, but it, and blogs won't count. Many of the references you provided that support the discography would be great down the line, since I assume you'll be making pages for the albums you have recorded. Some things, like the section of books aren't needful unless you wrote books (like Gil Scott-Heron, or had entire books written about you like Cat Stevens. Remember to discuss yourself by your last name, not Ron, except in very intimate quotes like the Gillespie one. Don't lump yourself with Susan Tedeschi, as in "Ron and Susan did this...". Remember, she's the name on the act. I can't strongly enough urge you to work on someone else's page for a week or two at least, to see how other editors do things. It was this, more than anything else that allowed me to see how references, differing methods for discography and the like are done. Your page reads too much like a story, and while it's what you wish for, it isn't encyclopedic-- think about writing a college level English paper with references for each assertion or quote you make. You can't just stick a reference showing you were there, you must show that Ron Holloway said and felt those things, and that others made comments to him as well. Maybe if you work with a workgroup-- there's a bunch or utilize the "Village pump", you'll see what I mean. I'm always here if you have questions. Leave me a note on my talk page when you do. If you wish to learn to use CITE, ask-- it's how to best document books and newspapers that are out of print. Best Wishes, --leahtwosaints (talk) 10:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Glad to hear from you![edit]
After finally hearing from you today-- when you and Susan Tedeschi are back from touring, please give me a call. I put a different banner on your page, hopefully it's less harsh, and as soon as you recover from jet lag, let's get together, and go over the whole article with a fine tooth comb, OK? I think that was the best idea you had yet. I'd like to see it really be a fine piece too. But, I'm gonna make you pay for this! Haa.. you'll owe me a soda and some old clippings if you can get your hands on them! Deal? :)) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 04:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Forgot to mention this-[edit]
I found some photos of you playing with Honeytribe. It isn't in the article. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 04:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
You aren't listed in the Soul Stew list[edit]
There is a list in the left side of this part of the Derek Trucks Band's My Space page, where the band members of the DTB are listed, there's some modern art of each with their names, and then a list of the Soul Stew Revival additional performers and your name isn't on the list. It could cause problems with all kinds of things (from Wikipedia on..) starting with your claims to perform with Susan Tedeschi on nearly every occasion. It's here: [1] You need to rectify this. Thanks. Hey call me email me, what EVER, (lots of reasons). Leave me a note on my talk page. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 15:13, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Your conflict of interest is being discussed in the appropriate forum[edit]
... at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Ron Holloway --Orange Mike | Talk 17:09, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Notable person survival kit[edit]
Hi Ron, there is an essay at WP:Notable person survival kit advising notable people editing Wikipedia on how to deal with conflict-of-interest accusations and the like. If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a line (click on the yellow 466 in my signature to get to my user talk page), or reply here (I will be watching your user page). Best, --JN466 13:39, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello, Jayen466! You sound like a nice person. Thank you very much for reaching out! It's much appreciated! Sorry, I'm just responding to your message. I have been very busy of late with several different projects, one of them being the article here on Wikipedia. As you are doubtless aware, I have been putting in some serious time here, trying to make some meaningful changes and improvements. Hopefully, all of the inline citations and the deletion of gratuitous links at the bottom of the page will result in a much improved article. My article was started by a T. Anthony on September 26, 2006...Just over four years ago! Mr. Anthony and his companion had JUST come home from a night out on the town. They had attended one of my performances in downtown Washington, D.C. The two of them sent me an email stating how much they enjoyed the music and told me they had JUST started a Wikipedia page on myself! I was stunned!! That was so unexpected and so thoughtful. I immediately checked it out to see how it looked and how it read. It was very simple but I appreciated the gesture immensely. I became interested in it and gave serious thought to trying to "flesh it out". It wasn't long before I made my first entry and found I enjoyed working on it. In fact, working on the article inspired me to pull out a lot of clips, magazine articles, newspaper reviews, etc. in an effort to document precise dates of performances, recordings, etc. Once I started putting in some serious time into the article I thought about what I would like to achieve. I wanted the article to be as factual, accurate and well written as I could make it. That has never changed. I am committed to trying to achieve that goal and also make sure the article adheres to Wikipedia's guidelines. Eventually, I began reading various Wikipedia articles that made me aware of the fact that the writing of one's own article is discouraged. I understood why immediately. I also began hearing (receiving messages) from a few editors who asked me if I was writing the article on myself. Once that was established I began to scrutinize the article because I didn't want to fall into some of the obvious pitfalls. Anyway, before you start nodding off, Jayen466; there were quite a few mistakes made in several different areas. However, there are some victories too, in that I still, very much want it to be an exemplary article. I have worked to improve it in spurts, because over the years I have traveled extensively and couldn't possibly work on it with any regularity. Being a musician first and foremost, I still spend a lot of time performing, practicing and studying. I tend to put in marathon hours when I have some free time because I know I won't be able to work on the article once I "hit the road". Like anything I care about, I want it to be good. I am thankful for THIS interval, which has allowed me to begin adding the inline citations that were sorely missing from it for so long. I welcome any encouragement or positive guidance I can get from those more knowledgeable than myself. (That would be just about EVERYONE! Hahaha! Thanks so much, Jayen466, for the friendly persona that shined through in your greeting! Sincerely, Ronsax (talk) 10:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
- A letter I wrote to T. Anthony within the past hour: Hello, Mr. T. Anthony! It's been a little over four years since we saw each other the night you were present at one of my performances. I hope all is well with you. I didn't realize you could be found here on Wikipedia! Thank you very much for starting the article on myself back then! I was aware of Wikipedia at that time. I used to look up articles on all of the historic saxophone players, which I still do today. I am writing you today because recently my article has caused a bit of a "stir". As you have probably noticed, I kept your article on myself going since your original entry. I have decided it's time for me to speak up on my own behalf because I finally did a check to see just how MANY times (on Wikipedia) User:Leahtwosaints has written long messages about the article and made comments about me on a personal level. There have been numerous instances where she admits to making certain mistakes when she was new to Wikipedia due to her inexperience. I, too, have made mistakes in the writing of my article due to a lack of experience and a lack of knowledge. "My" article is the only article I've seriously worked on because as a traveling musician I didn't have time to work on other articles. I've only worked on "mine" in spurts because of all the traveling, performances, rehearsals, recording and trying to spend time with my better half in between. I "met" Leah here on Wikipedia during one of the periods I was making significant entries on my page. It was a rough first encounter! The exchange between us IS documented here on Wikipedia. Then as now, I was VERY polite and courteous to her. She and I have communicated in three ways: Messages on Wikipedia...by telephone...and by email. I have NOT to this day met her face-to-face. Shortly after our initial rocky encounter on Wikipedia, she became very forthcoming and helpful to me with LOTS of great advice and pointing me to all the right articles to read. I was very appreciative and told her so. As she has said many times in her messages ABOUT me and the article, we talked about getting together so she could show me the things I could do to improve my article. This never happened because of the rigorous demands of my profession. This I apologized for several times. I didn't do this intentionally. The most recent telephone conversation we've had was two nights ago. It was a long one--two and a half hours long! I called her because in an email she expressed it would be "even better" if I called. We talked about many things and at one point, about midway into the conversation I said; "Leah, you keep going over the same points as if we haven't talked about these things". She replied; "well, maybe it's because I don't remember I said them". I then said; 'have you NOTICED all of the inline citations I've inserted into the article the past couple of days? I notice you haven't mentioned my improvements." Supplying inline references is one of the MAIN things she spoke to me about early on. It took a while but I am DEFINITELY incorporating them now! I have been whittling down the article, removing gratuitous links, refining sentence structure, removing my first name from a few remaining spots, removing improper quotation marks and MOST of all, using inline citations. I haven't make any comments in any discussions here on Wikipedia, even when untrue comments were posted about myself. I refuse to engage in any name calling, blaming or trying to "win people over". This is never productive. I have conducted myself in an honorable fashion and will continue to do so. One thing I keep reading is how I refused to respond to emails. I explained via email a couple of days ago to Leah; I switched cell phones and cell phone carrier a while back. I realized my old email address was incompatible with the new phone. I could no longer receive any emails coming through the old email address. This sort of thing is not something that should be aired on Wikipedia! I am making a public reply about it now because I keep reading this. I wasn't intentionally not responding. There have been several other comments that were not true but I'm hoping I've seen and heard the last of them. I am not making any negative or distraught comments here on Wikipedia in so much as a single discussion. Sorry to put this on your talk page, T. Anthony, but YOU know me somewhat and have a sense of my character. I am at a distinct disadvantage when someone sets out to make numerous comments about me in a website community where no one knows me and I don't even realize this is going on. I am just getting around to making improvements I should have made a while back. I assure everyone here I am trying to be as accurate, truthful and as thorough as possible in supplying documented, irrefutable proof of any statements I have added to the article. Be well, T. Anthony! Ronsax (talk) 19:19, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi Thomas, please don't feel as though you are in the middle of anything. I was under the impression you may have been the person who started my article four years ago based on the above message from User:Leahtwosaints. I have not spoken or otherwise communicated with the gentleman who began the article since we emailed each other the day after. I mentioned his name in a message I wrote early this morning. I woke up several hours later and got on Wikipedia to find that User:Leahtwosaints had read my message (to another editor who reached out to me) and actually succeeded in locating a T. Anthony. Thank you for your response, Thomas! Ronsax (talk) 03:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Harassing Emails - This Has Gotten Out of Hand![edit]
- I have received my second harassing email from User:Leahtwosaints in my personal inbox. The email was sent yesterday evening at 6:02pm. I have sent a copy of the email conversations between she and I to the police. I have not yet filed a formal complaint but I will if I get another email of this kind! I wanted the conversation (as it REALLY occurred) to be on file. At this point I do not wish to have any further contact with Leahtwosaints outside of this forum. I will report each time I hear from her OUTSIDE of Wikipedia. I have made a detailed list of the inaccuracies and lies she has repeated here on Wikipedia and in emails. Several editors have corrected her and made her aware that her accusations involving me supposedly writing articles on Answers.com, etc. are unfounded. I have no need of making anything up. That's why inline references are mandatory. I will not be contacting or making any further replies to User:Leahtwosaints in any shape or form outside of Wikipedia. Ronsax (talk) 17:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
- I won't email you if you choose. I just taught you how to use inline referencing last week! Please remember to use CITE.--Leahtwosaints (talk) 09:18, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank you. That is exactly what I choose. I do not take harassment lightly! I warned you about the tone, sarcasm and volatile language you used in the email you sent me on Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 9:21 PM, which you titled "A Rant". The very first paragraph of my response email to "A Rant" reads: "Good morning, Leah. I'm up early getting ready for an early gig this morning. You were up late last night! I'm feeling like there's something not right about the manner in which I'm being addressed in your emails. I'm also starting to notice a lot of the same questions from you that I have already answered. I feel at this point anything I say in response to your questions gets lost in translation- like it's become futile to even respond. I have always used a respectful tone with you, Leah and I feel I deserve no less. I am not a child. I will respond to one of your questions and then I must get ready to go to work." I wrote these words not only in response to the rude tone of your email, but the vile accusations you have posted on many pages here on Wikipedia. I have seen them all and can tell you exactly where each one can be found. Please don't pretend you have been a positive, helpful friend since October, 2008! Anytime you'd like to post our entire email exchange from Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 1:32 PM through Saturday, Oct 2, 2010 at 6:02 PM I am ready. I would suggest we post it TODAY, in it's entirety, on this page. Ronsax (talk) 18:10, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Ron, this is ridiculous[edit]
Be honest. I've attempted to assist you since I first stumbled upon your attempts to edit the article about you. I was not prepared years ago to adopt anyone, but I have learned the use of the Wikipedia. We all have lives; some of us choose to use time wisely. After you discontinued answering my coaching on your talk page, or email, I did give up on you finding more and more external links, but no contact back. Now that your article is under scrutiny from an Admin., you have left a string of email, lengthy phone calls, and I've responded. You're trying to represent yourself to.. who here? I've put in hours of work attempting to satisfy not just the Wikipedia, but your own specifications here, teaching you (the same things you would have learned had you read WP:MOS and the instructions here that I, and other editors have left you). After that, your critical email regarding a few spelling mistakes on the run seemed like small thanks. It did piss me off. But I never discontinued trying to clean up and explain in the edits why I was making each edit. The only reason I continued to respond in email is that it was more conveniennt, takes less space, and most of all, I didn't think you'd want a running commentary on your talk page, as you seem so touchy about the article about you. If you wish, we can air out all of your concerns here. Please take a look at WP:PA. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 09:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- You wrote in the above paragraph: "We all have lives; some of us choose to use time wisely." Ronsax (talk) 18:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
This is Serious - Not Ridiculous![edit]
You don't know me or the details of my life well enough to make a sarcastic judgment call like that. I would venture to say I haven't done too badly with the use of my time. I began playing the saxophone around September of 1966. I have supported myself solely playing the saxophone since 1975. No secondary jobs. You sound as if you equate being a productive person with ones mastery of Wikipedia rules. Ronsax (talk) 19:03, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- Be honest, you say? I am first and foremost a musician. I still spend a lot of time performing, practicing and studying. I tend to put in marathon hours here on Wikipedia when I have some free time because I know I won't be able to focus on the article once I "hit the road". Like anything I care about, I want the article to be accurate, truthful and well executed. I am thankful for THIS interval, which has allowed me to begin adding the inline citations that were sorely missing from it for so long. Ronsax (talk) 19:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
You repeatedly mention on various pages here on Wikipedia sending emails that I refused to respond to. A couple of years ago I got a new cell phone. I switched companies and quickly realized I couldn't access my email on the new phone. In order to access emails I had to ALSO switch my email carrier. That's why, as you are aware, I no longer use the Verizon email address. I wasn't purposely ignoring your emails- I had to discontinue my use of the old email address. To compound the problem, something went wrong with the laptop I used to take on the road. My old email address just became a lost cause. I apologized to you several times for not responding. Is there some reason you keep mentioning this? I have apologized and explained it a few times now! Ronsax (talk) 19:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- This is an excerpt from the message I wrote User:T.Anthony on his talk page. It was posted at 19:05, 2 October 2010: "I 'met' Leah here on Wikipedia during one of the periods I was making significant entries on my page. It was a rough first encounter! The exchange between us IS documented here on Wikipedia. Then as now, I was VERY polite and courteous to her. She and I have communicated in three ways: Messages on Wikipedia...by telephone...and by email. I have NOT to this day met her face-to-face. Shortly after our initial rocky encounter on Wikipedia, she became very forthcoming and helpful to me with LOTS of great advice and pointing me to all the right articles to read. I was very appreciative and told her so. As she has said many times in her messages ABOUT me and the article, we talked about getting together so she could show me the things I could do to improve my article. This never happened because of the rigorous demands of my profession. This I apologized for several times. I didn't do this intentionally." This excerpt is also quoted on this page, above your most recent messages under the heading --JN466Notable person survival kit. (Halfway down that article). I have always thanked you for any help you have given me, Leah. I have also given you credit here on Wikipedia and in emails. In contrast, many of your entries in reference to the article, my character, my motivations, my activities, etc. have been untrue, inaccurate and mean spirited. I can supply links to each one of these instances if you would like, so that we have all of these type statements on one webpage. Ronsax (talk) 20:18, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Inline Referencing[edit]
It's not true that you taught me inline referencing last week! You've complained in several places here on Wikipedia how I don't use CITE. You also complained to me in our phone conversation how I wasn't following your suggestions about using CITE. I've made a significant number of inline references as far back as 2008. This I can easily prove. Maybe you're forgetting because several of the accessed dates say the references were put in place within the past week. I changed several of the accessed dates because I put some of the references in different places within the article to verify a more relevant claim. If I had learned inline referencing from you last week, I'd be using CITE. Ronsax (talk) 20:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
In My Defense[edit]
Hello, T.Anthony and Leah, Thanks again for taking the time to look at the article, T. Anthony. When you have a moment, please take a look at the replies and messages I left on my talk page since you and I communicated there. I stand behind everything I said in those messages. There is a very different tone on display in Leah's above message than the volatile, sarcastic tone in her personal emails to me. It was the inappropriate tone and aggressive language in her emails that prompted me to make a public statement that I would no longer be responding to her emails. After the second harassing email I found out how I could get the email trail to the police so that they have a copy of exactly what was said. I haven't filed any formal complaints but I've been asked to report to them each time I hear from Leah outside Wikipedia. I take this seriously. I have been a gentleman with Leah in emails, here on Wikipedia and during telephone conversations. I have not gone from site to site making untrue statements about her. I do not have a prolific history of posts here on Wikipedia. Ninety-nine percent of my time here has been me working to improve the article. I only recently started to defend myself here out of necessity. Please do not feel "caught in the middle". I am only leaving this message here because I noticed the above statements. Above Leah states: "Obviously this kind of thing has been problematic for others in the past, since so many pages in the WP that address problems that ensue, and why the subjects are discouraged from editing." My problem is not with anyone making changes or edits on the article. A close examination will reveal this. My problem has to do with finding a significant number of negative, sarcastic, untrue statements made by Leah, about myself and the article! I know where each one of these are and have made copies of the comments. Ronsax (talk) 20:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
October 2010[edit]
{{unblock|Your reason here}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:58, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Ronsax (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I haven't filed any formal complaints with the police concerning User:Leahtwosaints and I am not threatening legal action. I contacted the police because I received two harassing emails from her. I made them aware of her emails and sent them copies. No formal complaint was made. Because Leah has posted things that are not true about myself and my career history on several Wikipedia pages, I wanted to protect myself by having a record of these emails on file as they actually occurred. I wasn't aware she was making these type statements, on several pages, until very recently. I was advised to file a formal complaint if I receive any more harassing emails from Leah. This is not something I want to do and I truly do not believe Leah to be the kind of person that would continue to send these type emails. I did warn her about her volatile tone after her first offensive email. She was then angered by an email I sent her, in which I pointed out how she frequently leaves misspelled words, sentences without continuity and disrupts the chronology of events when she makes edits. I was very polite and respectful. I gave her an example. She then sent a second email that was much worse than the first. I am very sorry about all of this but I felt if I didn't try and defend myself, the offensive emails and the reckless statements on Wikipedia would continue. My editing history here has almost entirely been on my article and I have not and would not ever post anything irresponsibly. One of the worst collection of accusations and inaccuracies from Leah can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wasted_Time_R#Can_you_help_me.3F In this section, entitled "Can You Help Me" she writes: (1) And one other glaring problem: his claims to have been a member of Dizzy Gillespie's final quintet for FIVE years-- something you think would be mentioned someplace in Gillespie's sources as well. I never said or recorded anywhere that I was in Gillespie's band for five years. What one will find on many websites is "Ron Holloway joined Dizzy's quintet in the summer of 1989. He remained a member of Dizzy Gillespie's final quintet until Diz' passing on January 6, 1993" or something very similar. (2)Now, I find that he has written articles in just about every single not-so-credible sites, like Answers.com and maybe two pages more. The User Wasted Time R responds: Hi Leah. Yeah, I see what you mean about his article. The other sites you see are probably just Wikipedia echoes – I know that's what Answers.com is. I'll think about what to do. Leah then responds: ...One thing, though. Those are NOT mirror articles. I WATCHED him move from one spot to another adding this stuff. This statement is not true! User:Wasted Time R is correct about Answers.com. I've seen many more such sites, that mirror Wikipedia! On several other pages she claims she makes this same accusation along with others. I have since added several inline references that prove I was in Gillespie's group as a full time member. I appear on two CD's with Dizzy, one of which I composed the liner notes. I am mentioned in several books, all of which I have inserted as inline references, along with ISBN numbers. Finally, I supplied a YouTube video of the Dizzy Gillespie Sextet & Friends in Prague, Czechoslovakia (1990) as visual proof. This video can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ron_Holloway under the heading: "Videos for references". Sincerely, Ronsax (talk) 03:48, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Our policy against legal threats has multiple purposes. In this case, the threat that you will report another editor to the police has a chilling effect on editing, both for that user and for other editors. Why should I, as an uninvolved editor, bring up a concern with your editing if I will be threatened with police action? This does not contribute to a collaborative editing environment. On that basis, whatever the merits, it is clear that you are threatening legal action in your statements on this page, and you'll need to withdraw that threat in order for an unblock request to succeed. See also my comments below. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:19, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I'm not familiar with the Ron Holloway article, or its history, but I gather from your unblock request that you are Mr. Holloway? And that your edits are entirely related to the article about you? Is there a discussion on the rather obvious conflict of interest that that implies, and how that conflict was addressed? I see that you've been editing the article for several years now, so I presume it's an old discussion - but I cannot seem to find it. Thanks, UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:19, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Ronsax (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
Hello, User:Ultraexactzz. Thank you for taking the time to read my request to unblock. I did read the article "Guide to Appealing Blocks" before requesting to be unblocked. I just finished reading it a second time. I understand it's contents. With my original request I didn't mean to give the impression I have any intent or desire to take legal action against User:Leahtwosaints. I was truly saddened to even feel I had to entertain such thoughts. When I did consider it, it had nothing at all to do with editing the article. Leah and I have worked on the article more than anyone else. We worked on it together! Sadly, I cannot pretend now, that Leah didn't send me two inflammatory emails. It was the improper tone of those emails that prompted me to search out her comments on myself here on Wikipedia. When I did I found she had made comments about me that are untrue and several details have been exaggerated to reinforce her points. I find this to be reckless and mean spirited. I consider it a privilege to work on and edit an article here and I would never abuse it. My decision to share the emails with the authorities was a matter of self protection and it did not have anything at all to do with editing the article. It was about improper emailed messages sent to me outside of Wikipedia. I welcome anyone's input on the article and I would NEVER say or do anything to discourage it. I will not, for any reason, be taking any legal action against User:Leahtwosaints. It saddens me that any of this ever happened. I mean that sincerely. Ronsax (talk) 20:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Decline reason:
You write that you have already forwarded allegedly harrassing e-mails by another Wikipedia user to the police. This amounts to taking legal action. Until we are positive that this matter is settled, you will remain blocked. Sandstein 21:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
{{unblock|Hello, User:Sandstein. Thanks for taking the time to read my second request for unblock and thanks for responding. The matter is indeed settled on my end. The police merely have a copy of the email thread as it occurred as a precaution against tampering with it. They will not do anything with it unless I say there is a reason to. I am certain User:Leahtwosaints will not send any more inflammatory emails. I am at a distinct disadvantage here because no one knows me here. When I recently discovered the various untrue, exaggerated messages User:Leahtwosaints has been posting on several Wikipedia pages I was very surprised and concerned. I didn't understand for example why she kept mentioning a long conversation she and I supposedly had. She says on one page this international call lasted one hour...the call gets stretched to an hour and a half on another page. Finally, on still another page, that same call has become a two and a half hour call. I don't remember making any call from France! I only started making international calls after I got Skype and I didn't have Skype during the time she refers to. Besides that, my Mom and my girlfriend are the only two women I call from Europe. As I said in my first message above, on this page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wasted_Time_R#Can_you_help_me.3F ) User:Leahtwosaints adamantly accuses me of writing articles on websites like Answers.com. Even after I became aware of these false accusations I didn't threaten any legal action. It was when she began sending the volatile emails that I knew I had to do something to protect and defend myself! I thought to myself; If she's capable of spreading falsehoods on a public forum she might try to alter the emails. Based on her behavior I was taking no chances. If you're worried about some sort of vandalism on my part- it's not going to happen. Speaking for myself; this matter is settled. You have my word there will be no legal action on my part. Thank you. Ronsax (talk) 05:01, 8 October 2010 (UTC)}}
ANI[edit]
I have started a discussion at WP:ANI#Review_of_NLT_Block. If you wish to comment, please place your comment below and add {{helpme}} on your page, requesting it be moved to the ANI on your behalf. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 09:54, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
{{helpme}}Thank you so much for being so perceptive and discerning, BWilkins. It is much appreciated. There is one thing I would like to reiterate; there IS no police investigation. The police don't expect there will ever be a need for an investigation. Neither do I. I would like to request that this discussion be moved to the ANI. Thank you. Ronsax (talk) 11:57, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Done Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:42, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Interaction ban[edit]
As a result of this discussion on WP:ANI, in order to deescalate their conflict, Ronsax (talk · contribs) and Leahtwosaints (talk · contribs) are by community consensus banned from interacting with each other on Wikipedia, as described at WP:Banning policy#Interaction ban. In particular, this means that they may not edit each other's user and user talk space; may not reply to each other in discussions; may not make reference to or comment on each other anywhere on Wikipedia, whether directly or indirectly; and they may not undo each other's edits to any page (whether by use of the revert function or by other means). Any violations of this interaction ban by the other party may be reported to an uninvolved administrator, by whose decision about how and whether to act on it the parties are required to abide without further discussion.
In addition, Ronsax, my personal recommendation to you is that you cease editing the article about yourself, in keeping with WP:COI, and make any suggestions for improvements on the talk page. Sandstein 10:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank you so much, Mr. B. Wilkins[edit]
I cannot thank you and your colleagues enough, Mr. B. Wilkins, for taking an interest in my case and focusing on the finer details. You have my deepest gratitude! Sincerely, Ronsax (talk) 13:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi,
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ArbCom 2017 election voter message[edit]
Hello, Ronsax. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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