User talk:MeegsC/Archive 2

List of Ontario birds

Hello, I've been working on a list of Ontario birds here from scratch. I have a strong interest in birding but am by no means an expert, so I was wondering if you could take a look at the list and let me know if I'm doing anything wrong. Thanks, Scorpion⁰⁴²² 03:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Mozart list: thanks

I'd like to thank you for leading the supports at FLC; others were to slow to follow your example, but they finally did, and the list is now promoted. Your help in achieving this is much appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 21:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Donovan McNabb references

I have again removed the refimprove tag from the Donovan McNabb article. The article has 14 references already, which probably puts it in the 95th percentile of references per article, and no explanation is offered as to what references need to be improved. While every single article on Wikipedia would benefit from better referencing, applying the tag without labeling and identifying your specific issues of concern is not likely to address your issues. I would suggest that you label the specific items that require sources and elaborate on these issues on the article's talk page. Alansohn (talk) 16:15, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Bank Jumping Theory

Well, I can just barely understand why you removed my "bank jumping" theory from the theoretical section of the "origin of birds". But, when you removed it from your discussion area, you become intellectually dishonest. My theory of the origin of bird flight, that all can read at protobird(dot)blogspot(dot)com, is why, how, and where flight evolved. It won't go away, ever, because you or anyone else can't give a cogent and persuasive argument why it is wrong. Ground-up or tree-down theories are easy to refute, try me! Bird flight evolved by plunge diving from river banks! Protoart(at)gmail(dot)com. Arthur H Tarver69.225.121.234 (talk) 05:37, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Oops! Sorry, ther are two sites "origin of birds" and "bird flight" You didn't remove it from discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.225.121.234 (talk) 06:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Subst:BirdWelcome

Hi MeegsC, it may be good to have a BirdWelcome template that can be easily "subst"-ed into new bird editor pages. Your current format is a good starting point. Shyamal (talk) 09:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, had not noticed. Have not seen many of the birdproject sub pages carefully enough. Shyamal (talk) 07:47, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Subst:Sibleys

Hi MeegC, Charles Sibley was my father-in-law, and I am referring to a copy of his CV. What do you want?

--Tom Lum Forest (talk) 21:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice

Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Wikipedia:Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 20:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

RJ: formatting inquiry

My changes to the article reflect more than just the guidelines in the manual of style. For articles on geography, in particular, and the animal kingdom, a "further reading" section will eventually develop. It is a waste of time to compile a bibliography when more general articles will be written on the authors in ornithology. Ottre (talk) 08:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Feather

Have tried to improve the content and referencing in the article. It may still need some gap identification, re-organization and copy editing. Do take a look when you find some time. Shyamal (talk) 16:55, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Novels Newsletter - September 2008

This newsletter was automatically delivered by TinucherianBot (talk) 15:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Donovan McNabb

Well, when I had placed the tag (which was probably shortly after the end of week 1, I can't remember) his stats and possibly the game description (once again I don't remember) was missing, but the problem has been fixed and the tag was removed. Thanks for pointing that out tho. RC-0722 ^361.0/1 02:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

No problem. :) RC-0722 ^361.0/1 20:40, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed image

FYI. A user posted an image with "birds are Dinosaurs!" scrawled on it and that has been deleted. Shyamal (talk) 05:23, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Mexican footballers list

Hi do you know of any good title i can move the list to, it's a list of active mexican players playing in other countries. BlueRed 19:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Turkey list

Hello. Thanks for the welcome. Tonight I have started adding to the Category:Birds of Turkey. But, apart from random burst of enthusiasm, I won't be able to be a regular contributer until I have finished my masters thesis by the end of this academic year (sadly it is in Eng Lit not ornithology!). Still will contribute to the project as much as humanly possible. WikiLambo (talk) 18:07, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello, MeegsC. You have new messages at Plasticup's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

WikiProject Birds October newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line The Birds WikiProject Newsletter Issue VII (October 2008)
Welcome to the seventh issue of the Birds WikiProject newsletter. Ties to our project are growing: Avibase, one of the internet's largest generators of database-driven country checklists, now directs its users to Wikipedia's pages for more information on individual species.	Articles of note New featured articles and lists: Willie Wagtail (August 4) List of birds of Ontario (August 8) Greater Crested Tern (August 12) Puerto Rican Amazon (August 14) White-breasted Nuthatch (August 25) Red-necked Grebe (September 2) Welcome to our newest members Diucón (talk · contribs) Grantus4504 (talk · contribs) LNG123 (talk · contribs) oneelephantpickle (talk · contribs) Richard001 (talk · contribs) Article statistics Bird articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 2 19 61 152 234 FL 1 6 23 30 FM 616 616 GA 6 10 34 149 199 B 10 37 66 229 342 C 12 100 253 1,057 5 1,427 Start 5 114 832 6,174 3 7,128 Stub 16 1,310 7,969 2 9,297 List 10 75 734 107 1 927 Category 4 3,865 3,869 Disambig 2 195 197 File 1 305 306 Portal 57 57 Project 58 58 Redirect 1 14 98 222 2,016 2,351 Template 1 276 277 Other 6 6 Assessed 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 11 27,321 Unassessed 10 10 Total 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 21 27,331 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 98,554 Ω = 5.29
What is a bird of prey? Collaboration efforts Bird of prey, this month's collaboration article, is an overview of the many species of diurnal and nocturnal raptors. Please help us boost the quality and content of this important article—which is currently a mere start! In a related note, be sure to vote for November's collaboration, which will be chosen on 21 October. As always, we could use a few new nominations...
Project news A listing of bird-related articles destined for the next Wikipedia DVD is available here.[1] Unfortunately, a few of the identifed articles are currently stubs (Apodiformes, Columbiformes and Cuculiformes), and others have banners indicating various problems. We should try to get as many as possible updated and upgraded before the October 20 cutoff—the date by which we need to identify "safe" versions for inclusion. The bot that runs the project's cleanup list has unfortunately developed some problems since its last run (in August), but there are still plenty of corrections to make on the existing list! We're still on course to reach our (informal) target of 100 good / featured articles or lists by the end of the year, with only 12 more to go. Antbird is currently at FAC (where reviews would be helpful). Do you have an article nearing completion that needs some copyediting, reference searches or writing assistance? Let the project know!
Bird news A new species of white-eye is described in October's issue of Ibis. The bird, dubbed Vanikoro White-eye (Zosterops gibbsi) by its describers, is endemic to the Vanikolo Islands, which are part of the Solomon Islands. The Wikipedia editor who creates a new article on this species (containing at least some basic information) will be named in next month's newsletter. An abstract of the Ibis article is available here.
Got a suggestion? A correction? Something you'd like to see included in a future issue? Drop a note at the Tip Line with your ideas!
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

You know a lot about birds! Oh, and birds are dinosaurs. For more information, see Avialae, Feathered dinosaurs,Theropod, and Dinosaur.--Vuerqex (talk) 01:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

How do I get to the talk page for the bird article? I can't figure it out. Please respond soon. --Vuerqex (talk) 01:36, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello? I would like a reply. I still can't figure out how to get to the talk page for the bird article.I would really appreciate help. I really don't know how to get there. Please respond soon.--Vuerqex (talk) 01:54, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! --Vuerqex (talk) 23:33, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello again. Thank you for helping me. --Vuerqex (talk) 01:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

"Wiki-magic"?

I've asked a question about "wiki-magic" on the {{Citation}} talk page. You may want to comment further there. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 15:01, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Colymbus

The synonymy list is given in Hellmayr 1948, full scan here http://libsysdigi.library.uiuc.edu/oca/Books2007-11/catalogueofbirds1312hell/ Unable to find the German reference you refer to but http://www.peterbertau.de/seite09.htm suggests that the word "lumme" is indeed of German origin. Shyamal (talk) 02:43, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I am lost. The one scanned book of Brunnich (p 39) has the description in Latin. The other on the nest and eggs work of Lorenz Oken gives the names used by him and identifies the eggs in the illustrations with current names "8. Sterntaucher - Gavia stellata Bei Oken: Rothkehliger Taucher - Colymbus septentrionalis". Do let me know the exact link if there is still an issue here. I have a German speaker around to help me. Shyamal (talk) 09:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, seems like he got the summer and winter forms as two different species.

130. Stellatus, corpore supra nigricante maculis stellatis albis innumeris, subtus albo.
[Which I presume is : body above black spotted with numerous white speckles and underside white]
Willoughby Orn. Tab. 62 Colymb. max. stellatus 
132. Lumme, corpore supra nigricante, subtus albo, collo, antice ferrugineo.
[Which I presume is: Body above black, below white and front of collar ferrugineus.]

Shyamal (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Quite a mystery. The AOU checklist had the name as Urinator lumme until 1895 http://darwiniana.org/zoo/AOUa.htm - and the Hellmayr paper seems to clearly says 1761 - the genus Urinator was established in 1800 (Cuvier 1800 - Anat. Comp. I. table ii. Type Colymbus imber)

• Colymbus lumme Gunnerus Trond. Selsk. Skr. I. 1761, pi. ii. fig. 2.

It is possible that the the authorship being assigned to (Pontoppidan, 1763) is perhaps explained in the paper by Leonhard Stejneger of 1882 in Proc. US Nat. Mus. V has an explanation. Shyamal (talk) 10:16, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Elliott Coues does not seem to have had a good opinion of Stejneger ! http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v015n03/p0271-p0272.pdf The intrigues of taxonomy ! Shyamal (talk) 10:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Flickr post for newsletter

I'm not sure how long this should be, but here's an example of what you could say:

In the last month quite a few new photos have been obtained from the photosharing website Flickr. A few photos are already suitably licensed for use on Wikipedia. However, for the majority of unsuitably licensed images it is also possible to ask uploaders to change the license of their photo(s), and a good portion of Flickr users have been willing to release images upon request. This is particularly useful for articles that currently have no images. There are still thousands of bird articles needing photos and few people involved in this process, so any help is appreciated.

Richard001 (talk) 04:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Welcome!

Welcome to wikiproject Madagascar! --RayqayzaDialgaWeird2210    16:06, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Newsletter

How do you get that newsletter thing? Vuerqex (talk) 15:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Vuerqex

[2] is my very own website. I just created it. The website is far from finished, though. Vuerqex (talk) 05:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello, MeegsC. You have new messages at Tinucherian's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

-- Tinu Cherian - 12:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds November newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line File:Pitta-like Ground-roller.jpg The Birds WikiProject Newsletter Issue VIII (November 2008)
It'll mean a sprint to the finish line to reach our informal goal of 100 FA/GA articles by year's end; we're currently 11 articles shy of that total. A list of possible candidates—articles already containing significant amounts of information, which only need a bit more work to nudge them into contention—can be found here, if you'd like to help.	One of the many antbirds... Articles of note New featured articles and lists: Antbird (October 19) New good articles: Indigo Bunting (October 30) Welcome to our newest members Bogbumper (talk · contribs) Vuerqex (talk · contribs) WikiLambo (talk · contribs) Article statistics Bird articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 2 19 61 152 234 FL 1 6 23 30 FM 616 616 GA 6 10 34 149 199 B 10 37 66 229 342 C 12 100 253 1,057 5 1,427 Start 5 114 832 6,174 3 7,128 Stub 16 1,310 7,969 2 9,297 List 10 75 734 107 1 927 Category 4 3,865 3,869 Disambig 2 195 197 File 1 305 306 Portal 57 57 Project 58 58 Redirect 1 14 98 222 2,016 2,351 Template 1 276 277 Other 6 6 Assessed 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 11 27,321 Unassessed 10 10 Total 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 21 27,331 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 98,554 Ω = 5.29
Penguin could use some help... Collaboration efforts This month's collaboration article is Penguin—an iconic and well-known family that is the project's third most popular "read" (after Bird and Chicken). With more than 80,000 readers a month, this article deserves to be one of our first-class entries. Though it's in reasonable shape at the moment, it needs the expansion of a few key sections, and could use considerable referencing as well as some copyediting. Can you help? In a related note, be sure to vote for December's collaboration, which will be chosen on 30 November. As always, we could use a few new nominations—Birdwatching is the only contender at the moment.
Project news Over the last month, we've obtained many new photos from the photosharing website Flickr. Some photos on Flickr are already suitably licensed for use on Wikipedia. However, it's also possible to ask uploaders to change the license of those photo(s) which are unsuitably licensed (by far the majority), and a good proportion of them have been willing to release images when asked. This is particularly useful for articles that currently have no images. There are still thousands of bird articles needing photos and few people involved in this process. Contact Richard001 (talk · contribs) or Snowmanradio (talk · contribs) for more information about how you can help. We have a newly-generated cleanup list to work on. According to its latest stats, we now have more than 13,750 articles in the project, with 760 (5.5%) tagged as needing corrections or improvements of some kind.
Newletter challenge Maias (talk · contribs) took up last month's challenge, and started our article about the newly-described species Vanikoro White-eye. This month, we're looking for someone to create an article on the Northern Rockhopper Penguin, Eudyptes moseleyi, which has been split by many of the world's authorites; this will remove a redlink from our Penguin article as well. The editor who starts this article and gets it to at least a reasonable stub class will be mentioned in next month's newsletter.
Got a suggestion? A correction? Something you'd like to see included in a future issue? Drop a note at the Tip Line with your ideas!
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This has been an automated delivery by TinucherianBot (talk) 07:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Feedback?

Hi. I'm new to WikiProject Birds and have done a bit of work on Eurasian Woodcock. If you've got time, I'd be grateful if you could take a look and suggest further improvements. Thanks! Bogbumper (talk) 17:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Woodcock. Thanks, that would be great. Now stay off the computer! Katie Bogbumper (talk) 18:24, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Hope you had a great time in Madagascar. Sorry to be cheeky, but if you fancy having a look at any of the bird articles I've been working on lately (Eurasian Woodcock, Black-tailed Godwit, Green Woodpecker or Sedge Warbler), that'd be grand. Thanks! Bogbumper (talk) 21:30, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Dysart, Fife

I have managed to get around to doing the peer review work you gave me back in August. Do you feel that there are anymore edits i can make to the article? Kilnburn (talk) 17:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

unitarian greetings

• a fine Xmas message for all of us to be mindful of.... hehehe. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I used the wrong adjective, and meant meant global pan-religious not unitarian (i.e. uniting church), now for alot of reversions/amendations...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:25, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Long-toed salamander comments

Thanks for coming to my article and giving the feedback. I'll take a look at your recommendations and will keep working at this.Thompsma (talk) 16:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Over the top

The way it was said certainly made it seem like they were the ones being over the top. Wikipedia is seeming rather anti-science these days, and, contrary to them getting bored, they're wearing down the good writers and interfering with the writing of articles. It's been going on for months now. It's too much. --KP Botany (talk) 03:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Red-throated Diver

I've got to drive to London shortly, which should be fun, so I can't look now, but I'll respond tomorrow. I have a good source for old names, and I might be able to reference some of them. I wouldn't worry too much about synonyms anyway jimfbleak (talk) 05:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Distraction display

Noticed this in your sandbox (from last summer), looks like its time has come. See Talk:Rufous-crowned Sparrow, and I have added a red link in the article. Shyamal (talk) 14:14, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I jumped the gun...Maybe the challenge article can be changed? Shyamal (talk) 15:22, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

R-t D

• An alternative ref for the rain goose is <ref name=lockwood >{{cite book || last = Lockwood | first = W.B. | coauthors= | title = The Oxford Book of British Bird Names | year =1984 | publisher = Oxford University Press | isbn =0192141554 |pages = p.125 |}}</ref>.
• OBBBN doesn't have any of the other folk names, so I guess they are American. Personally, I would just chop them, and if people want them in, I would source them.
• Binomial synonyms (in taxobox) - I don't give binomial synonyms other than, say, the original name for the species as a whole if it differs from the current. Even then I'd put it in taxonomy rather than the taxobox.
• If I did give synonyms, I wouldn't normally reference them. Similarly, for subspecies I just give the author and date without a source, never been queried yet. On the whole, the people in the project won't ask for that detail, and at FAC its the type of dash you use, rather than the minutiae of taxonomy, that will be queried. If you do keep the synonyms and refs, you're expected to spell out journal names.

jimfbleak (talk) 15:24, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

For consistency, I'd be inclined to put all the real books in sources, difficult to see any logic in just two. jimfbleak (talk) 15:28, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

You have some Harvard citations, which need to be converted to cite templates, mustn't mix citation styles jimfbleak (talk) 15:35, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

R-t Diver

Roads fine down to west of London, not much snow left snow in Heathrow area, but Guildford and Caterham very icy according to traffic news. Ring-necked Parakeet in Wraysbury in a five-minute detour from the motorway and a Red Kite over the M25 were new for the year. Fine with the refs, I tend to either take out all the books or none, but that's just me. jimfbleak (talk) 17:47, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

re: newsletter

Hello. I think I could accommodate you. I need several details to prep up:

1. How often?
2. To whom? (All participants? Only a selected spamlist?)
3. Where would it be located?
4. Has this been discussed (link?) and is there a consensus?

Cheers, Миша13 16:36, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry for not getting back to you in time. :( Please signal me again next month (or whenever you feel like sending it out) - I should have all the code ready to fire by then. Cheers, Миша13 22:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Chimango Caracara

Thanks very much for the confirmation. I wish I'd taken more bird photos now. I've put another 4 up (http://picasaweb.google.com/Stevage/Unidentified), if your friend can help any more. Pity the photos are so bad, I don't have a telephoto, since I normally take landscapes. Stevage 01:46, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

EFD

You do realize Editors For Deletion is a humor page. It's frequently opposite-day around that place. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 23:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds March newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line The Birds WikiProject Newsletter March 2009
	Articles of note Rufous-crowned Sparrow New good articles: Whitefish Point Bird Observatory (January 25) – with apologies for not including it last month Rufous-crowned Sparrow (February 13) Article statistics Bird articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 2 19 61 152 234 FL 1 6 23 30 FM 616 616 GA 6 10 34 149 199 B 10 37 66 229 342 C 12 100 253 1,057 5 1,427 Start 5 114 832 6,174 3 7,128 Stub 16 1,310 7,969 2 9,297 List 10 75 734 107 1 927 Category 4 3,865 3,869 Disambig 2 195 197 File 1 305 306 Portal 57 57 Project 58 58 Redirect 1 14 98 222 2,016 2,351 Template 1 276 277 Other 6 6 Assessed 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 11 27,321 Unassessed 10 10 Total 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 21 27,331 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 98,554 Ω = 5.29
Project news Cockatoo needs you... Our first collaboration article for 2009 is Cockatoo—a well-known Australasian family of parrots. The article is already in reasonable shape, thanks to early efforts by a number of contributors, and with a little more work, we should be able to get it to GA/FA status. Can we get our first "group star" for the year on this one? On a related note, be sure to vote for April's collaboration article, which will be chosen on March 31. If none of the existing nominations interest you, consider adding a new one! Please be sure to mark any featured lists as FL-class rather than FA-class. All of our current featured lists have been moved into this new(ish) category. Beginning in April, we'll be removing from our "active participants" list the name of any editor who hasn't edited on Wikipedia for 6 months or more, putting them instead into a "retired editors" section. (Please note that will be easy to move yourself back into the active category if you start editing again after an extended absence.) This should help us to better evaluate our project's editor retention and make for more efficient newsletter delivery.
Videos We all know the old adage "A picture is worth a thousand words." And if that's true, videos are probably worth 10,000! They're a great way to add information to articles—for instance by showing behaviours that are hard to explain with text or static pictures. They can also include audio, adding a dimension unavailable in a photo. If you don't have your own video camera, you can still help the project by finding and requesting videos from others who have already taken them (checking, for example, at Flickr, YouTube or The Internet Bird Collection). If you have questions about how to upload videos, several project members, including Richard001 (talk · contribs) or Aviceda (talk · contribs), may be able to help.
Newsletter challenge Shyamal (talk · contribs) took up the last newsletter's challenge, and started our article about distraction displays—behaviors used by birds to lure or drive potential predators away from nests or young. This month, we're looking for someone to start an article about acoustical luring, which is a method used by some predatory birds to lure potential prey into reach. The person who creates this article and gets it beyond a mere stub level will be mentioned in the next newsletter.
Got a suggestion? A correction? Something you'd like to see included in a future issue? Drop a note at the Tip Line with your ideas!
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This has been an automated delivery by Cbrown1023 talk 21:32, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Acoustical luring

Hi MeegsC, the article challenge seems to be rather narrow in scope and I just see that avian foraging is a red link and could be much larger article that can introduce this term as it applies to shrikes (seems to be the only case in birds). The term itself seems a bit ambiguous as call play back and pishing might actually qualify. Shyamal (talk) 04:13, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Some suggestions that come to mind so far: Ornithophily currently redirects to zoophily. I think a lot more can be said on the topic. A much larger possibility is avian ecology and it could encompass what is now standing in avian ecology field methods. Shyamal (talk) 16:40, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I seem to be thinking of many large topic ideas. There was a suggestion on the bird project talk page as well about avian distributions - which could cover a bit on phylogeography, niche concepts, invasions and expansions. There is a somewhat isolated fragment at Avian_range_expansion. Shyamal (talk) 12:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Avian tool use might be an interesting topic - some nice references here http://biology.mcgill.ca/faculty/lefebvre/ Shyamal (talk) 15:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Now what about....

Red-throated Diver.......Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Birds newsletter template

I like it. I suggest not hiding it - it's not going to be a nuisance. Go ahead and add it to all the newsletters for navigation. Richard001 (talk) 08:54, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for taking the time to help with WikiProject_Organismal_Biomechanics! I'm awful at a lot of this coding and layout stuff, so it's really, really appreciated! Mokele (talk) 14:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Newsletter

It would be good if there were a way to navigate more easily between newsletters, e.g. a 'next' and 'previous' button, or better still a template at the bottom with all newsletters on it. Another suggestion is to link to Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds/Article requests in the section on the new article.

For the next newsletter, you could mention moving photos to the Commons, e.g. "Except in very rare cases, all bird related images must be freely licensed and thus should be uploaded to the Commons. There are however a number of bird images only found here at en.wikipedia (sometimes being the only one of that species), which prevents them from being used by other Wikipedias and Wikimedia Projects, and makes them harder to find. Some are not used in articles, and most are not placed in a bird specific image category. If you come across one, consider moving it to the Commons, which has a much better category system for bird images. You can search for and move them on a regular basis if you want, but you can also help simply by putting them in Category:Bird images (which should only contain images from here, with the occasional exception such as featured pictures), where others can find them and move them. For help on this you can ask User:Richard001."

(That's quite long isn't it? Oh well, I'm sure you can do something with it.) Richard001 (talk) 08:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• I'd like to offer my bot services for future delivery of the newsletter. Just let me know if you're interested. –xeno (talk) 16:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

  Yep - Category:Newsletter delivery bots. If your usual deliveryperson is still on break for the next one, just let me know and I'd be happy to fill in. –xeno (talk) 16:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

References, a clarification

In answer to your question, please let me explain.

This is the formula recommended on Help:Cite errors. It indeed is a little ambiguous. It means that the list itself is not part of the template. If it were, you would have found the whole references section including

== References ==
''This reference list does not appear in the article.''

in all articles that use the template. The references themselves obviously are part of the template.

So the trick into understanding this is in the words this list.

If there is anything more I can help you with, please write. Debresser (talk) 08:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

User talk:MZMcBride#Gastrolith

FYI MZMcBride is on a wikibreak, I took the liberty of responding at the above-linked thread. –xeno ^talk 17:09, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Ruff

Many thanks, the link as given is fine even at FA, doesn't have to be to the journal site as long as it has the text jimfbleak (talk) 13:35, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Spoken articles in Bird newsletter? Great suggestion! Can we pend it a bit?

Hi MeegsC,

Thanks for the message. Sorry for the delayed reply. I left on 22nd for Bangalore and I'm accessing my email only today from there. The fact is that aside from a small spoken article on "Bank Myna", my second spoken article "Bird" is progressing slowly and is still incomplete. As of now I feel that I should write the article you want once I have some experience behind me. Would you consider waiting another month till then? I'm beginning work on it right away. Let me know. You may like to fill in the vacant slot in the forthcoming issue in the meantime. Could you tell me the word limit and other rules for the Bird newsletter?

AshLin (talk) 04:12, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Great, go ahead. My post on WikiProject Bird should be enough to base a paragraph or two. Please add my name as a contact for interested people. AshLin (talk) 03:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Spoken articles are Wikipedia articles which have been read aloud. Spoken articles make Wikipedia content available to those who can understand English but cannot read it, for users who enjoy podcasting, for visually challenged users and for people learning english. As of date, Spoken articles are prepared by users under the auspices of Wikipedia:WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. To ensure adequate voice quality and minimal size, spoken articles are recorded from 48 kbit/s to 96 kbit/s encoding bit-rate, 44.1 kHz sampling rate, with one channel (mono)in ogg vorbis format. Recording and editing an article can easily be done by users using a home computer setup with microphone and the free software Audacity. Users wishing to record an article will find guidance on the WikiProject pages. At present WikiProject Birds has only 14 spoken articles. Considering that the Project has 76 FAs/GAs and thousands of other articles, there is a dire need to ensure that more than an insignificant fraction of bird articles are available to the visually-challenged people of the world.

You could use this as a preliminary draft and amend it to your satisfaction. AshLin (talk) 05:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Rollback

You might find this Wikipedia:Rollback feature useful. It is a server-side revert and much faster. Shyamal (talk) 15:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I have already changed your rights :) Shyamal (talk) 15:12, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds May newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line The Birds WikiProject Newsletter May 2009
We've done it! With the awarding of a GA rating to Australian Magpie, we reached the milestone of 100 FA/FL/GA articles for the project. And that's fitting, since it was Casliber (talk · contribs) who both shepherded the magpie article to its rating, and who challenged us to the goal of reaching 100 in the first place. We also reached our goal of 50 FA articles, when Rufous-crowned Sparrow got its star. Well done everybody; those are major accomplishments. Now, on to 150…	Articles of note New featured articles: Tree Sparrow (April 4) Rufous-crowned Sparrow (April 18) New good articles: Australian Magpie (April 15) New project members Welbergen (talk · contribs) Article statistics Bird articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 2 19 61 152 234 FL 1 6 23 30 FM 616 616 GA 6 10 34 149 199 B 10 37 66 229 342 C 12 100 253 1,057 5 1,427 Start 5 114 832 6,174 3 7,128 Stub 16 1,310 7,969 2 9,297 List 10 75 734 107 1 927 Category 4 3,865 3,869 Disambig 2 195 197 File 1 305 306 Portal 57 57 Project 58 58 Redirect 1 14 98 222 2,016 2,351 Template 1 276 277 Other 6 6 Assessed 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 11 27,321 Unassessed 10 10 Total 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 21 27,331 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 98,554 Ω = 5.29
Red Knot Project news May's collaboration article is Red Knot, a widespread species which is in increasing peril across much of its worldwide range. (Some scientists have predicted that the American subspecies, for instance, may be extinct as soon as 2010.) Help us to raise the profile of this worldwide shorebird. On a related note, be sure to vote for June's collaboration article, which will be chosen on May 27. If none of the existing nominations interest you, consider adding a new one!
"Heard" birds Spoken articles are Wikipedia articles which have been read aloud and recorded. Such recordings make Wikipedia content available for visually challenged users, for those who can understand English but cannot read it, for those who enjoy podcasting, and for people learning English. Currently, WP:BIRDS has 14 spoken articles—a tiny fraction of the more than 13,000 articles and lists overseen by the project. There is a real need to increase this number, and it's easy to help with the process. Recording an article can be done using a home computer with a microphone and the free software Audacity. The Spoken Wikipedia WikiProject oversees all recording efforts, and their project pages should be followed carefully to ensure that agreed standards of access, content and performance are met. Please contact AshLin (talk · contribs) for more information.
Newsletter challenge Shyamal (talk · contribs) stepped up yet again and created an excellent, well-referenced start to the ornithophily article. This month, we're looking for someone to split the article about Bonelli's Warbler into two species: Eastern Bonelli's Warbler and Western Bonelli's Warbler, both of which currently exist only as redirects. The person who splits this article and separates the appropriate information into each new article will be mentioned in the next newsletter.
Got a suggestion? A correction? Something you'd like to see included in a future issue? Drop a note at the Tip Line with your ideas!
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

• Newsletter delivery by xenobot 06:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

•  Done =) Let me know if you need this again next month. –xeno ^talk 06:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

IBC

Hi MeegsC; I'm sorry to have overlooked your comment on my talk page.[3] Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 00:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Italics

I'm not sure I follow. If the genus name matches the page title, is contained within five 's in the taxobox, and there is no name parameter in the taxobox, then the title will be italicised automatically. Won't it? Martin (Smith609 – Talk) 16:31, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds June newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line The Birds WikiProject Newsletter June 2009
With three new additions to the project's FA/FL/GA article count, we're on our way towards our next goal — of 150 such articles. Ruff and Alpine Chough are currently good article nominations; drop by their candidacy pages to comment, review or suggest improvements!	Articles of note New featured list: List of birds of Maryland (May 23) New good articles: Azure-hooded Jay (May 1) Red-capped Robin (May 1) New project members Barn Owl 444 (talk · contribs) Dougjj (talk · contribs) Noodle snacks (talk · contribs)
Secretary Bird Project news June's collaboration article is Secretary Bird, about an iconic long-legged African raptor, which is widespread throughout sub-Saharan Africa. Our current featured articles display a decided "Anglophone" bent; can you help us to get our first African species to FA? On a related note, be sure to vote for July's collaboration article, which will be chosen on June 27. If none of the existing nominations interest you, consider adding a new one! There still 16 bird families with articles currently considered to be Stubs—great progress if you think back to the scores we had last year, but still more than we should have. Any assistance in reducing that number would be much appreciated!
Newsletter challenge SP-KP (talk · contribs) met last month's challenge and split our former "Bonelli's Warbler" article into Eastern Bonelli's Warbler and Western Bonelli's Warbler, reflecting widespread agreement among taxonomists that the two former subspecies merit their own species; jimfbleak (talk · contribs) helped with taxobox reorganization. This month, we're looking for someone to wikify our Brazilian Merganser article. The editor(s) who perform this needed service will be mentioned in next month's newsletter.
Got a suggestion? A correction? Something you'd like to see included in a future issue? Drop a note at the Tip Line with your ideas!
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

• Newsletter delivery by xenobot 14:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Good job on Down feather article

Much improved from earlier versions! Bob98133 (talk) 15:06, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

HVC

http://www.avianbrain.org/neostriatum.html

cheers, 128.118.29.7 (talk) 22:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Nice work

I noticed you started an Outline of birds page and just wanted to say nice work. Thanks for being so proactive. Tiamut^talk 21:05, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds August newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line The Birds WikiProject Newsletter August 2009
We're looking for input on several topics this month — including whether we should change the period of time we work on collaboration articles from a month to a quarter, and whether we should change the authority for our species (and article) naming from Handbook of Birds of the World to the International Ornithological Committee's World Bird List. Be sure to add your two cents (or pence or rand or rupees or pesos or bolivars or whatever other currency is appropriate) to the discussions...	Articles of note Macaroni Penguin — just one of the project's new Featured Articles New featured articles: Macaroni Penguin (June 2) Australian Magpie (July 7) Ruff (July 14) New good articles: Alpine Chough (June 23) Red-throated Diver (July 18) New project members Dger (talk · contribs) Frosted Orange (talk · contribs) KnowledgeRequire (talk · contribs) Skinips (talk · contribs) Article statistics Bird articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 2 19 61 152 234 FL 1 6 23 30 FM 616 616 GA 6 10 34 149 199 B 10 37 66 229 342 C 12 100 253 1,057 5 1,427 Start 5 114 832 6,174 3 7,128 Stub 16 1,310 7,969 2 9,297 List 10 75 734 107 1 927 Category 4 3,865 3,869 Disambig 2 195 197 File 1 305 306 Portal 57 57 Project 58 58 Redirect 1 14 98 222 2,016 2,351 Template 1 276 277 Other 6 6 Assessed 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 11 27,321 Unassessed 10 10 Total 37 320 2,735 16,717 7,501 21 27,331 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 98,554 Ω = 5.29
Potential collaboration changes The question has been raised as to whether we should change our collaboration article period from monthly to quarterly. Please weigh in on the debate — and be sure to list anything you'd like to have considered for possible collaboration efforts.
Project news What's my name? Help decide — see the text. A proposal has been made to change the standard source for species (and article) names from Handbook of Birds of the World to the International Ornithological Committee's World Bird List. Do you agree or disagree? Comments and opinions are sought here. There's renewed interest in getting some of our nearly-there topics ready for a run at Featured Topic. Currently, there are a trio of potentials: the Procellaridae, the New World vultures and the choughs. Each of the first two have two articles that will need to be improved to at least GA-class before the topic can be nominated. For the procellarids, Procellariiformes is currently B-class and Diving-petrel is currently Start-class. For New World vultures, New World vulture is currently B-class, and Cathartes is currently Start-class. The choughs are currently up for Good Topic listing — but getting either Alpine Chough or Chough to FA-class would enable us to put that one up for featured topic as well. Last month saw the start of an Outline of Birds, which should eventually provide a project index, allowing interested readers to more easily access all of the articles associated with WikiProject Birds. Help to populate the outline with any articles you find missing.
I need a proper introduction! Newsletter challenge Prashanthns (talk · contribs) met the last newsletter challenge and wikified the Brazilian Merganser article. This issue, we're looking for someone to expand the Semnornis (toucan-barbets) article from Stub-class to Start-class. The editor who does so will be named in next month's newsletter.
Got a suggestion? A correction? Something you'd like to see included in a future issue? Drop a note at the Tip Line with your ideas!
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

Newsletter delivery by –xeno ^talk 02:12, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

User:MeegsC/Sandbox

Hi. Your sandbox is shown in a category. There is a wiki-guideline against having sandboxes in a category. Snowman (talk) 11:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

• I did not mean to cause any difficulties. It would be simple just to add the hidden mark up (<!--[[Categeory:Name]]-->) and that is fixed the problem. Snowman (talk) 12:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Triple Crown

Your majesty, it gives me great pleasure to bestow the Triple Crown upon MeegsC for your feathery contributions in the areas of WP:DYK, WP:GA, and WP:FA. Well done :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:21, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Naming Conventions. RFC: Removal of exceptions to "use common names" passage.

This is to inform you that removing exceptions to the use of "most Common Names" as the titles of Wikipedia articles from the the Talk:Naming_Conventions policy page, is the subject of a referral for Comment (RfC). This follows recent changes by some editors.

You are being informed as an editor previously involved in discussion of these issues relevant to that policy page. You are invited to comment at this location. Xandar 21:38, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Animals

Are you still and Active participant of WikiProject Animals WP:ANIMALS ? Please let me know. ZooPro 05:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks i will list you as Active. ZooPro 03:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

house sparrow

Are you interested in helping me try get House Sparrow up to featured article status? (It's currently C-class) If so, I have lots of questions for you. Thanks, innotata (Talk | Contribs) 21:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

First, I guess I really don't know much about improving articles like this. I've been looking at Tree Sparrow, and have adopted a few ideas from that page, for instance, putting the description on the top. I think I'll start by beefing the article up, as I feel a lot is left out. One thing I want to add immediately is a discussion of House Sparrow evolution, a subject well-known since the 1960s. (Not microevolution in Australia and elsewhere, another interesting topic). Where to put it I don't know. It is very difficult in general to decide how to organise the text. I also think it may be good to change the name of the heading "As an invasive species". It is becoming common for authors on the subject to describe the native range of such species as the house sparrow and rats as wherever there are humans. This is partly just my pet peeve (right phrase?), so don't give it much heed. That'll be all for now, innotata (Talk | Contribs) 17:01, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's something I'd like you to do: Would you mind expanding and adding refs to the standard texts at the description section? I probably would do a bad job of it. (As at Tree Sparrow, but please try to cite descriptions that apply to sparrows worldwide, i.e., not just the Collins guide.) I've also found, by searching in several search engines and journals such as Carnéts de Geologie, that it appears no major developments have been made in our understanding of house sparrow evolution since 1988, the year my main ref (Summers-Smith's The Sparrows) was published, so it and the sources referred to in it will be suitable. innotata (Talk | Contribs) 22:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm having a hard time making inline/harvard cits for the primary references, so I'll just give sources without them for now. Can you help here? (Though it seems you messed up too). innotata (Talk | Contribs) 19:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

A quick note, in case you care to know: you may have heard of the declines of the House Sparrow, in Western Europe, especially. There actually was a somewhat poorly done section on this earlier–an IP address deleted it and nobody noticed–, and I'm giving it some work at User:Innotata/Decline. I've got this covered, completely. I also have a file on my computer with around 30 urls for webpages and papers on the matter, so you don't need to put any effort into this. innotata (Talk | Contribs) 00:49, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Yet more little notes on house sparrow: I think one reason for your apprehensions on the removal of the cit and text to the bluebird society was my ongoing move of info on the house sparrow's spread from the invasive species to the to the distribution section, leaving the invasive sp section to focus on current status. Another major change I'll be making is the addition of habitat and decline subsections to the distribution section. If you have other ideas as to how to arrange the text, please do leave a note at my talk page. I've found another useful source, Kate Vincent's PhD dissertation and webpage. I'll probably be citing Vincent a good deal, but I can't find out how to cite dissertations in the citation template. Also: do you think that since Groschupf is so short, it should be given as an ordinary inline cit? Lastly, I'd like to note that I can't find many things on the house sparrow's harm to native birds, except in North America. Can you try to find some things on this matter? innotata (Talk | Contribs) 18:19, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Here's what I've got as for a cit to Vincent:

• Vincent, Kate E. (October 2005), Investigating the causes of the decline of the urban House Sparrow Passer domesticus population in Britain (PDF)

I can't tell what parameters to use with Template:Citation. innotata (Talk | Contribs) 17:33, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, the italics are wrong with this template, too. innotata (Talk | Contribs) 17:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

This is something I just typed at my talk page, in a discussion with Jimfbleak, who is going to work on sparrow articles: "I've done it: I've found how you use Harvard and cite x templates!! You add the parameter ref=harv !" Now to fix House Sparrow. —innotata (Talk • Contribs) 16:35, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Another template

Hi MeegsC, this template might be of interest since you usually prefer the Harvard notation presumably due to this. Template:Rp - I spotted its use in "Insect". Shyamal (talk) 03:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, MeegsC. You have new messages at Talk:House Sparrow.
Message added 01:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I was going to tell you something about refs, but I added it to a response to your queries at the talk page. innotata (Talk | Contribs) 01:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds template

Thanks for removing the project talk page banners from those duck breed articles. If you want to double check, there are probably also chicken and turkey articles that have the same problem, though I'm not entirely sure. Steven Walling 05:59, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Not everyone is happy about the removal (probably temporary) these birds from WP birds. There is a discussion about this on the bird talk page; see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Birds#Domestic_birds. Snowman (talk) 21:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Purple Martin

Thanks for the note to User_talk:70.144.83.69 re purple martins, feel free to revert/edit or expand to a more accurate or complete entry, no edit war I promise! I just felt that the scale of use of artificial nests by martins merited a mention. Markletp (talk) 15:50, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

GA review reminder

Hope you have not forgotten ... Shyamal (talk) 04:00, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Service awards proposal

Hello, MeegsC/Archive 2! I noticed you display a service award, and would like to invite you to join the discussion over a proposed revamping of the awards. If you have any opinions on the proposal, please participate in the discussion. Thanks! — the Man in Question (in question) 20:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Eurasian Sparrowhawk/GA1

A gentle reminder - the above review has been on hold for 97 days, which is rather a long time. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:06, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Birds

Birds are dinosaurs. Just saying. One and a half years later, I still think you're wrong. --Ferocious Flying Ferrets 03:47, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

I know that. --Ferocious Flying Ferrets 01:35, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Oddie article

Hey, how are you doing? I can't even remember the last time I checked the Oddie page. It's been ages. Feel free to remove any tags you disagree with. Thanks for letting me know. [email protected] (talk) 13:31, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Red Warbler

The DYK project (nominate) 12:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Grab some glory, and a barnstar

Hi, I'd like to invite you to participate in the Guild of Copy Editors July 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive. In May, about 30 editors helped remove the {{copyedit}} tag from 1175 articles. The backlog is still over 7500 articles, and extends back to the beginning of 2008! We really need your help to reduce it. Copyediting just a couple articles can qualify you for a barnstar. Serious copyeditors can win prestigious and exclusive rewards. See the event page for more information. And thanks for your consideration. ɳorɑfʈ ^Talk! 14:59, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Karanacs (talk) 03:50, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Red-throated Loon photos

Hey! and thanks for the positive feedback. I had a magnificent evening with the birds and shot more than 400 photos, of which i kept around 40. I didn't want to clog the article with too many, but there are some very nice actionshots, both of the feeding as well as takeoff and landings. They are all available here for now (http://picasaweb.google.com/boaworm/BirdsAtEyrarbakki#), I'm happy to contribute more to wikipedia if you think any of the others would benefit the article. Boaworm (talk) 10:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Pink-headed Warbler

— Rlevse • Talk • 12:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

per admin...

Hi, sorry my brevity with saying "per admin. approval" wasn't clear - I meant "awaiting an admin. review and approval to stay" - 'said' with respect that it is a secured article. Seems the opposite interpretation was made. Sorry----Look2See1 t a l k → 03:50, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your two notes, you were right, I would have missed issue-discussion. Have posted a response there between these notes to you. Best---Look2See1 t a l k → 04:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)