User talk:Lobsterthermidor/Archive 2

Warbelton v. Gorges

Interesting read :) I like coming across articles like this one when I'm doing new page patrol. I wonder if you could explain, why was the charter written in French rather than English? Sorry if it's a stupid question, my history knowledge is pretty bad. --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 13:49, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your approval. It was in French because the English court spoke French ever since the Norman Conquest, and this trend became more pronounced after King Edward III, reigning at the time this charter was made, claimed the French throne in right of his mother. Perhaps I should add this info to the article. Now, assuming from your username you are a physicist, perhaps you can explain to me what nuclear fission is all about - just joking! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC))

Lol, I can try if you like. Thanks for the explanation, I learnt something new today --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 14:11, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

O tempora!

Can you quote me a use of tempus in context?

I think I've only ever seen it abbreviated, temp. Hen. II (for, I presume, tempore Henrici secundi) meaning in the time of H2. Obviously there are contexts where tempus is correct even in Latin, but it's not trivial to imagine a context where an historian would use temp. Hen. II as the subject or object of a verb. —Tamfang (talk) 21:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

I believe I've seen it innumerable times, but can't quote one of them. Can't fault your logic. Will keep my eyes peeled for next one I see & report back. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:45, 13 May 2011 (UTC))

I can't ask more than that. —Tamfang (talk) 02:42, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I have had fun

With Pimp tenure. I even found an online copy of Thomas Blount's book. No online copies of the rolls yet, as far as I know! Rich Farmbrough, 18:31, 18 May 2011 (UTC).

Great additions, feel free to expand from your sources, it would definitely provide extra interest. I have provided a translation of your Latin quote, which usefully states the tenure to be a form of serjeany (the text is surely corrupted, perhaps by the scanning process), as I had suspected. I keep telling people history's fun! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC))

Failed swimmer notability

OK, I doubted that a consensus had bee reached on that, but honestly I wonder about the importance of a title like "Miss Charlene Wittstock". It sounds a bit ridiculous... Not to speak of even listing her ancestors who were total nullities, just because other noble figures had them. But they were NOT noble, so where's their relevance? I've decided to add that comic template also to my personal page: hope that at least satire can work. Ciao and good work. --'''Attilios''' (talk) 11:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I like your collection of comic name plates - I hadn't realised you were a mammal. But seriously, the article on Charlene Wittstock should contain these standard records of fact, appropriate to the page of any royal personage. As royalty concerns heredity, ancestry and such matters are important, unlike in the case of a celebrity. If they can dig out Irish ancestors for Obama, who knows what ancient princes will be found in Charlene's ancestry. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:10, 3 July 2011 (UTC))

File:Soaptrust.jpg

Hi, I have corrected the license on this image: PD-old is plainly wrong because its author, Haselden has not been dead for more than 70 years (or even the 100 years claimed under that template). This image is still copyrighted in the UK, though PD in the US by virtue of pre-1923 publication. However, we still need to know where this image was obtained (it is obviously not scanned from the original newspaper, judging from the sharpness and different font of the partial text at the bottom). From which source was this image scanned from? Jappalang (talk) 04:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Well spotted, good addition and sorry for my oversight. Source now added (Wilson, C. History of Unilever, vol.1, p.81).(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC))

John Russell, 1st Earl of Bedford

Source for dates was Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ODNB).PacificBoy 10:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Better to have provided this as a reference in the article.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC))

In addition to King John...

If you have five minutes and fancy taking a look, I'd welcome your thoughts on King Stephen. The article's in a pretty good state now, but it would benefit from someone with a good background in the sources looking over it as well. I'd like to try and take it to FAR at some point in the near future and you've a good eye for this sort of thing! Hchc2009 (talk) 16:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! 5 minutes? The John article took me several hours to read carefully - and deserves no less! My focus of interest is really late John early H III at the moment. The John article is very informative and useful. The only area I would like to "interfere with" is the matter of punctuation and niggling little matters, which are perhaps just differences in American & English writing styles. For example, I find Americans use lots of ;'s and ,'s which I find detract from the text. There are lots of little clarifications needed, odd words to be replaced (i.e. "Wortham (sic) was responsible for fusing John's galleys"). What's needed is a classic & detailed edit job on the superficial areas, the text is there already. That's the trouble with FAR articles, they tend to fossilise for fear of losing their status due to change. I might have a go sometime and see if I get slapped down! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:14, 26 August 2011 (UTC))

Well, perhaps a little bit more than 5 minutes! :) Once I've finished with Stephen I'd like to try and sort out the Henry II article which badly needs some work, but I've been distracted by some work on the Bastille in user-space... Hchc2009 (talk) 18:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Dimidiation

Well, I didn't notice it until after looking at it for almost five minutes... AnonMoos (talk) 09:47, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

To be honest with you I was going to suggest in my caption a new term for such a phenomenon: "trimidiation"! I decided against it as I thought it just didn't sound right, with media meaning "middle" and di presumably coming from duos. Just as well! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 11:34, 16 September 2011 (UTC))

The di is likely the same morpheme as in divide, which (according to the American Heritage Dictionary) is related to dis– rather than duo. —Tamfang (talk)

Thanks for the as ever useful correction - by the way belated thanks for putting me right earlier on temp. being tempore, I keep my eyes peeled when looking at the writings of antiquarians who do indeed use the ablative - or should that be locative, generally same ending I think.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 21:25, 24 December 2011 (UTC))

I gather that in Latin the ablative mostly absorbed the functions of the PIE locative and instrumental. —Tamfang (talk) 07:57, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Your {{merge to}} at Category:Methods of writing

I have converted your {{merge to}} at Category:Methods of writing to the more correct {{cfm}}. Please support your suggestion at the discussion here. Mark Hurd (talk) 03:02, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

File:FirstArmsOfGorges.jpg listed for deletion

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File:Heraldic gurges (whirlpool) Gorges.svg

Generally files in SVG vector format are preferred to PNGs or JPEGs as coat-of-arms illustrations (as opposed to photographs of old historic depictions). However, the distinction between "computerized" and "artistic hand-drawn" is by no means as simple as you assume -- for example, Commons:User:Sodacan creates a lot of SVG files from scratch which have significant artistic qualities. As for the specific case of the Gorges arms, the JPEG was adequate, but it was obviously a photograph of something drawn on paper with magic markers (or similar), so I had no hesitation in replacing it with a smooth geometric vector SVG, which could also serve as a source for a vector heraldic whirlpool for future authors of heraldic SVG files. I'm not actually much of an artist (definitely not if it comes to freehand drawing from scratch), but I can contribute things like that. (However, I may have made the shield a little too narrow...) -- AnonMoos (talk) 01:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

There's definitely a place for "artistic personality" in many heraldic representations, but I'm not sure that a modern illustration of the blazon argent, a gurges azure (or perhaps just gurges) really qualifies. For charges which can be defined in term of simple geometry, such as azure, a cross Or etc., most of the time you just want illustrations with the correct simple geometry, and which don't call attention to themselves with unnecessary fancy elaborations. AnonMoos (talk) 00:53, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

That seems like a fair comment. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:08, 14 October 2011 (UTC))

William de Botreaux, 2nd Baron Botreaux

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Now fixed (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:20, 4 February 2012 (UTC))

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Requested move at Talk:Arabesque (Islamic art)#Requested move

You may be interested in Talk:Arabesque (Islamic art)#Requested move. TimBentley (talk) 17:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

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Sic

• Thank you for your contributions to the article Sic. I have started a discussion regarding the recent bold edits and would like to understand the purpose. —CodeHydro 14:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The martlet in the cadency image

I made the image. I don't recall where the current version of that brisure came from. If you can find a better martlet anywhere on Wikimedia Commons and let me know, I'll be glad to replace it. Marnanel (talk) 12:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

• Your image was of a French Merlette, a type of duck, I have thrashed out the difference between this and the English martlet in the article martlet. A good image of the martlet is available at [2]. I'll be glad to see the last of that French intruder into English heraldry on WP! Thanks (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:34, 1 May 2012 (UTC))

Twelve Knights of Glamorgan

		The Original Barnstar
		It's wonderful when you just happen upon a really interesting article. Thanks for making my day and all the other hard work you put into Wikipedia. FruitMonkey (talk) 11:46, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

That was one of my very first contributions! - and this is my first Barnstar, a very great honour, thanks. I'm really glad you enjoyed the article, there's a lot more to say on that topic, I hope I'll get round to it one day, but with WP one is constantly moving on...(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC))

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	One of the finest references that I have found. Thank you. Stuartwross (talk) 18:12, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Much appreciated! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 00:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC))

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Tristram Risdon

Hello and thank you for your additions and corrections to Tristram Risdon. You do seem to have gone rather overboard on the lists and short choppy sections in that article, though. Both of these are looked on unfavourably here - see WP:BODY: "Very short or very long sections and subsections in an article look cluttered and inhibit the flow of the prose" and "Bullet points should be minimized in the body of the article, if they are used at all; however, a bulleted list may be useful to break up what would otherwise be a large, grey mass of text" (which in our case we have not got).

Similarly, quoteboxes are often used to "illustrate" an article where few relevant images are available. I also find them useful to separate a quote from the flow of the content when the quote isn't directly relevant to the text, but it does provide a useful or interesting example - as here where it gives a flavour of the style of Risdon's writing (not as dull as some have claimed, I think!)

Unless you can provide some persuasive arguments for retaining the new layout, I propose to substantially return it to how it was before. I'm happy to discuss, of course.  —SMALLJIM  16:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I like to use headers to encourage expansion of sections such as "Origins", for an input of geneaology, "Marriage & progeny" for expansion re. descent, etc. I like to find stuff quickly. Quoteboxes should surely state source on face, else seem rather too jouralistic, I find it irksome to see a block of text with no context at all. Surely better "illustrations" can be dreamt up than this. I'm not a WP lawyer and will not attempt to defeat your citations from the rule book. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC))

Hmm. Don't forget that the purpose of WP is to serve its readers, who vastly outnumber us editors, and it's to aid them that we have style guidelines to follow. Rather than leaving an article in such a disjointed state for an indeterminate length of time, it's surely more appropriate to wait until significant content is to hand before creating new sections. And if you don't have the content, the talk page is the place to request it. Is Risdon's genealogy/descent meaningful and relevant anyway? We don't add such details to every biography.

Regarding the quoteboxes - all I can say is that they're used in many FAs (1, 2 - absolutely at random) and GAs, so they're evidently looked on favourably. And far from having no context, this one illustrates two separate parts of the text - Risdon's prose and the Tiverton fire.

Are you at all persuaded?  —SMALLJIM  19:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I much appreciate your consultation. I don't want to get too bogged down in presentational matters. I believe in ever increasing expansion of WP articles, that they are always in a state of flux and never finished. That's not to say they should look a mess, but I don't think short paras do that, I find they assist reading, certainly the ability to consult quickly on a specific point without having to wade through a block of text. As a user I find myself consulting on specific points more often than reading whole articles, and like to navigate straight there, that's what the content box is for. There's at least three times as much to say about Risdon as is here. Yes genealogy is relevant, indeed I intend to add a picture of his coat of arms at some point and an image of the brass at St Giles, a rare piece of 17th.c. English art, which will link into other articles on monumental brasses. We haven't even given the maiden name of his mother, a basic requirement. More work is needed, but that is the nature of WP. Don't attempt to "wrap it up" or fossilise it. When Jimbo Whales says we need to economise on server space, then articles need to be restricted, but at present WP's objective is to include the entire sum of human knowledge. My annual donation to WP certainly covers more than the extra server space required for all my text and image contributions. That doesn't mean packing articles with verbiage, but does include adding facts where available. Context of the box: I missed it when I read the article, and needed to go to the file page to inform myself what it was. It's as irritating as showing an image with no caption. As for your first comment, I consider myself equally a user and editor. I don't like quote boxes which are more at home in a glossy magazine than a serious encyclopaedic article. As for section length, I think the image of the family home looks good opposite the para on Origins, surely that qualifies as of sufficient length? I'm not persuaded, but if it irks you that much go ahead and change it to the way you like it, but don't loose any content.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC))

Thanks for your detailed response - similarly appreciated here. You talk about your opinions: you think short paras are helpful and don't look a mess, that quote boxes don't belong in a serious article, etc. The problem, of course, is that there's a huge range of such personal opinions among our editors, and that's why we have policies and guidelines - WP couldn't work without them. In this case most other editors haven't agreed with your view, so neither does the Manual of Style, or the FA process. On that basis - consensus about article style - I will restore the longer paras and the quotebox. Thanks for that.

Incidentally, you changed the caption of the photo from "Winscott Barton, an 18th-century farmhouse on the site of Winscott in which Risdon lived" to "Winscott Barton, the farmhouse (with later 18th.c. additions) in which Risdon lived". In writing that caption, I followed the photo's file description which helpfully cited Hoskins' Devon (which says "The present farmhouse is a late 18th-cent. house.") I remember wondering whether I should add the photo at all, since it evidently isn't the same building that Risdon lived in. But do you have evidence that refutes Hoskins?  —SMALLJIM  23:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Summary style

This is still in response to your last post. At least we agree that WP is never finished! I don't think I said anything about removing or restricting the addition of any information that's relevant to the topic. But that doesn't mean that an article can continue to expand indefinitely. We have to bear in mind summary style and what's expected of an encyclopedia article. Beyond a certain level, we don't expect a single article to provide all the information about a topic. When one aspect of a topic has been researched and expanded so much that it unbalances the entire article, it should be split off into a child article. WP:DETAIL gives a decent explanation of this principle.

This isn't really about the current Risdon article, but some of the others that you've edited - I came across Orleigh Court which demonstrates the problem nicely, I think: it's far from what I'd expect to see if I, as a general reader, came to WP for information. I reckon that all that content about the "descent of the manor" should be in a child article, with a brief summary in the main article. Much of it is only very peripherally relevant to Orleigh Court. What do you think?

By the way, you said, "...at present WP's objective is to include the entire sum of human knowledge". Sorry, no it isn't - see WP:NOT. (Though it does depend on one's personal definition of knowledge, I suppose!)  —SMALLJIM  23:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

At Talk:Orleigh Court, I've proposed splitting your additions into a child article. Your comments would be welcome there.  —SMALLJIM  12:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Descent of the manor is the format adopted by the Victoria County History series. Often in the cases of manor houses it is more practical to combine the history of the manor with the architecture of the existing house. There often is not enough to say about the building itself to form an article of any length, as is possibly the case with Orleigh. Often architectural features can only be properly explained by reference to previous occupants who built them, and the reader therefore needs to be familiar with the descent. To split into two separate articles seems somewhat disjointed. Subjects which become too dis-aggregated can loose the ability to give an overview. On your general point I do not agree that history of a manor is "very peripherally relevant" to an article about the house. I do however think you have spotted something of value re Winscott: Pevsner states under the heading "St Giles in the Wood": "Winscott House, a cheerless Gothic mansion of 1858-64 by W. White, has been demolished". My map shows a "Winscott Barton" presently located 1 mile E of St Giles. Clearly some clarification is required here. I would agree with you that pending this the image should perhaps be removed. There is incidentally another Winscott between Orleigh and Bideford. The source of the image needs verification. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC))

Dealing with your second point first, I agree that the Winscott photo should go, for now at least - I'll remove it and add a note to the talk page in case anyone else is interested or can contribute. I saw the mention in Pevsner, but assumed that was somewhere else because the details don't fit. An engraving of the old house would be better, of course (there's nothing in Somers Cocks that I can see), but best of all would be an illustration of Risdon himself, like the one you found of Wm. Pole.

Regarding Orleigh, could you copy your comment to Talk:Orleigh Court, please, where I'll reply. Thanks,  —SMALLJIM  14:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Keep looking, there'll be a portrait out there somewhere, imaginary or otherwise. Failing which I find that an image of the subject's armorials make a good substitute. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 15:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC))

Ledger line

You added a new meaning at the end of January. Unfortunately, you did not add a reference. The new material really ought to be in its own article (per a split tag) and yet it can't because of the lack of reference. Therefore, I will move the new material to the talk page so that it can easily be re-instated should you find a reference in the future. Op47 (talk) 18:41, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Noted, will endeavor to do so. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 20:36, 21 July 2012 (UTC))

Barony of Moor

Nice find! I've deleted the hoax article and indef-blocked the perpetrator. I've also redacted your addition of part of the content to Barmby Moor because (possible copyvio considerations apart) we can't be certain without careful reading that it hadn't been tampered with.  —SMALLJIM  16:38, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your action. To defend him somewhat the contributor is not a "malicious" hoaxer, just someone who bought a possibly phoney "lordship of a manor" certificate (a common scam) and now wants not only to give it historical validity, but also to promote it to a "feudal barony". He therefore willfully created a false article. Not really what WP is there for! The text he lifted from British History online on the history of the village/manor is probably accurately copied, but I take your point re copyright issues. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC))

After reading his last comments I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt if he made some commitments, but I was pipped by JamesBWatson who's refused his appeal. Perhaps that's just as well...  —SMALLJIM  15:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I think JamesBWatson has made a well-judged decision. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC))

Cite spam??

What's with this cite spam deletion you did on House of Braose? Surely the full citation is the preferred one. Doug (at Wiki) 17:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I do not like what I have seen others call "cite source spam". I understand the cite source template to be for new users who are not familiar with how to cite sources, and there it has its value. I don't see the point of using it once one has become used to citing, it just clutters up the edit text. Does it add anything extra? Does not just "author, title, date, location, page no" give exactly the same visible result without all the cluttering/spam code in between? I think I also deleted the ISBN, useless unless buying new books, librarians don't need it when ordering old books, should a reader wish to consult the source quoted. Thanks for helping me out with this article.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 17:58, 17 August 2012 (UTC))

OK. The cite templates are usually used to ensure a consistent approach. But since the other references given don't use it I don't think it matters much here. On the articles I have taken to GA status all the citations use templates. Doug (at Wiki) 18:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps just a matter of personal preference. I can't see the point of them. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 20:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC))

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Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at Talk:Barnstaple.
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Licences to crenellate

I noticed you've started an article on licences to crenellate, which to be fair is filling a gap in the encyclopedia. However, it is only fair to tell you that I'm effectively going to ditch what you've written as it is riddled with problems. First and foremost are issues relating to referencing. The author of the article you have been using was written by Philip Davis and published in The Castle Studies Group Journal. There is a significant difference between that and the group carrying out the research themselves. Then there is the issue of attribution. Despite the fact you added the information and clearly had the article to hand, it is not properly referenced. There are statements and paragraphs which do not have a footnote to explain the information has come from Davis' article, making it useless to a reader. Ensuring every statement is impeccably sourced should be standard practice for Wikipedia, and while there are a host of articles which fall hopelessly short of this standard there's no excuse for newly added information. On top of that, your reading of the article is somewhat ham-fisted. I made some corrections to the battlement article which you did not bother to copy across, thereby reintroducing errors. For instance you wrote "Pardons could be obtained for unlicenced constructions, termed "adulterine" whereas what Davis said was "In particular it is important to understand that the so called 'adulterine' castles of the Anarchy of Stephen were not 'unlicenced', as sometimes stated". Nev1 (talk) 17:04, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, its a new article, few WP articles are created perfect. I do my best. I was aware that I had omitted to carry accross some of your edits, nothing of truly vital import, but that is in the pipeline. If you can help improve it that will be very welcome. The problems you seem to have identified are:

• Attribution should be to "Philip Davis and published in The Castle Studies Group Journal", I thought I had picked up that edit of yours into the new article. If not can it not simply be inserted? What's the problem?
• "There are statements and paragraphs which do not have a footnote to explain the information has come from Davis' article, making it useless to a reader".

Why not simply state at top of the list: "All sourced from Davis unless stated to the contrary"? It is a great exaggeration to say the info's useless because of this minor matter of clarifying the source. There's certainly a way round that. If you are also refering to the main bodies of text, then I can improve the referencing as you suggest.

I can't see how this justifies your proposal to "ditch" the article. I should add that on the matter of pardons, you deleted the whole sentence instead of retaining what was OK, i.e. that a mechanism for obtaining pardons existed, an important point to make. I will make the above 3 amendments and you can let me know what you think. I'm glad you agree with me that this is "filling a much gap" (sic). It's a shame you previously deleted the whole thing with no reason given. You could have demerged the text yourself, or asked me to do it. Perhaps now you can work on it a bit more constructively. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 17:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

The real shame is that you didn't read that battlement talk page to see the reasons for deleting the list there, and why it is not appropriate at the new article. In short I am in the process of tearing out what you wrote because it was not good enough and simply easier to start afresh. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of adequate sourcing in Wikipedia articles, and making sure they are properly represented. Nev1 (talk) 18:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Lobsterthermidor, when adding references, do you think you could include the pages where you found the information? Thanks, Nev1 (talk) 18:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I will endeavour as hard as I am able to meet your standards of perfection, but am only a mere mortal. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:54, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

Ta, and it would be just great if you could use footnote references at Barons' Letter, 1301 so readers can see what information has come from where. Nev1 (talk) 18:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

So far as I remember its all from Willoughby de Broke, but again I will try to oblige you there as well. Now you're not going to "ditch" that article too are you?(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

My main concern right now is making sure Wikipedia has a decent article on licences to crenellate. Nev1 (talk) 19:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps you might condescend so much as to offer me some little credit for my own pathetic offering? (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

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Speedy deletion nomination of List of licences to crenellate

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A tag has been placed on List of licences to crenellate requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article or image appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Bradfield, Uffculme

Hello Lobsterthermidor,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Bradfield, Uffculme for deletion, because it seems to be inappropriate for a variety of reasons.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, Welcome to HorrorLand, where nightmares come to life! 14:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Ignore, request is poss. vandalism. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 23:12, 30 September 2012 (UTC))

DYK for Peter Rouw

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:03, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

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improvements to an entry

Lobsterthermidor could you kindly help expand the content of this article, Palmes family? Cheers (Yahoo12445678 (talk) 21:22, 7 October 2012 (UTC)).

Never heard of them. It seems to be something that interests you, so you should make it your own project. That's how WP works. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC))

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Arlington

Regarding your expansion: You might be interested in this if you look at the bottom of the page there are a couple of other versions. I never could decide which was the most illustrative. I drew it when I was planning to re-write the page to FA standard, but never got aownd to writing it. If you want to use let me knowm and I will key it up with the room names etc. Giano (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Would be a very useful addition, I think the current version is best. Do go ahead with room names etc., & add the image to the article if you wish, seems a shame to waste your work. More text is clearly needed on architecture & description etc. Also needed is a really good lead photo, good angle with good light, like this. May have to wait till next spring/summer. Am working further on the Chichester family at present, so more contribs to follow from me.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:32, 4 December 2012 (UTC))

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Sydenham House, Devon

Hi there Lobsterthermidor. Thanks for your nice note. Cheers, --Rosiestep (talk) 16:36, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

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Thanks

Hi Lobsterthermidor, I was on my new-pages-patrol rounds and came upon Raleigh, Pilton; just a quick thankyou for presenting a well-rounded new article, makes a nice change from the vast quantity of deletion-ready stuff that usually fills the new pages report. Baldy Bill (sharpen the razor|see my reflection) 22:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC))

William Willoughby, 5th Baron Willoughby de Eresby

Hi Lobsterthermidor,

I left a message for you at the Talk page for the above-referenced article. Best, NinaGreen (talk) 22:11, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Sir John Northcote, 1st Baronet may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 13:26, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at A930913's talk page.
Message added 15:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Berry Pomeroy may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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Forde, Wolborough

Hello, Lobsterthermidor, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on Forde, Wolborough, appears to be directly copied from http://www.ghostcallers-uk.com/fordehouse.html. Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted.

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on Forde, Wolborough if necessary. MadmanBot (talk) 22:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not my offence, I merely pasted existing WP text from within article Newton Abbot to form new article. On further investigation, your supposition appears erroneous. See talk page. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 10:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC))

Cornish heraldry

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Cornish heraldry a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. Gtwfan52 (talk) 07:16, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

That very confusing template was generated when I nominated your recent cut and paste move for deletion so it can be moved properly. As the template states, it is important to preserve the page history for copyright purposes. Your article creation will be deleted and the sandbox article will be moved to mainspace in its place.

Thank you for finding it! Someone put in a ton of work only to abandon it. Thanks for finding it and rescuing it! Gtwfan52 (talk) 07:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your input, good to know that you agree with my action. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 07:49, 28 May 2013 (UTC))

an admin deleted your creation of the above article and I moved the sandbox one over. That was a great find. I gave it a C rating, which I think is the highest I have ever rated a newly created article. Thanks again. Gtwfan52 (talk) 08:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks. All the credit must go to User:Bodrugan, whose article it was. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC))

Nice work! NB: there're two non-free images in the Motto's section, which are still limited as ":File"s, that probably need to be activated as full images now its out of a sandbox. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, noted, will deal with as part of on-going copy edit. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2013 (UTC))

June 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• 1792 was Robert George William Trefusis, later 17th Baron Clinton (Debrett's Peerage, 1968, p.265)(son of Robert Cotton Trefusis (d.1778)[http://www.thepeerage.com/p22808.htm#i228079]</ref> who

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Descents

Great work, but please stop overloading articles on villages – which should approximate to the format specified in WP:UKVILLAGES – with excessive details of manorial descents. Please create separate articles, as I have done for Manor of Berry Pomeroy, Manor of North Molton and now Manor of King's Nympton. Thanks,  —SMALLJIM  21:21, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

And Manor of Combe Martin.  —SMALLJIM  23:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Please see on your talk page my invitation to you to join the discussion "Manorial histories" of today's date on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 10:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC))

Thanks. I have replied there: not very favourably, as you probably expected. Incidentally - and I do say this with the best intentions - it may help garner more responses if you were to reformat your posting there with a few paragraphs. See WP:TLDR.  —SMALLJIM  16:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

commons:File:Portobello3.jpg

At commons:File:Portobello3.jpg you were listed as the uploader and the file description page states that you would be also the author. Now, a complaint via OTRS was issued and it looks like Michael Turner would be the author of this file. Can you clarify the situation please? Thank you. -- Rillke (talk) 18:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

My error, a regrettable oversight on my part. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 11:15, 20 June 2013 (UTC))

Original research

Although you haven't commented this time, I have no doubt you're aware that I've been "following you around" again, this time removing examples of original research from the articles you've edited.(*) I'm sorry it has taken me so long to become fully aware that this is a problem with your contributions and to take action – it's partly because of a reluctance to do the research necessary to show beyond reasonable doubt that a certain passage is indeed OR, a task made more difficult by the abstruse nature of many of the topics.

However, I am now as sure as I can be that the addition of original research has been a regular feature in your editing, and you need to ensure that this doesn't continue. Don't look upon this as an "official warning" or anything like that – I'm sure you acted unknowingly since it's apparent that you're not very interested in reading up on our policies etc. (which is OK – up to a point), and there's no doubt that your intent here is good, and that you have added a great deal of value to the encyclopedia. But you do now need to take more care that your contributions are made in accordance with our policies and guidelines.

I'm going to continue to work back through some of your contributions and remove the parts that seem to violate our policies. I hope you'll follow me and check my edits (if you were to precede me, that would be even more helpful – no-one can know better than you when you added something that wasn't already published!) I will, of course, be happy to discuss any individual changes. Oh, and if you strongly disagree with all of this, there are a number of ways of getting someone else to look at the situation – Wikipedia:Third opinion describes the most lightweight of these, though it lists the other available alternatives too. Best,  —SMALLJIM  15:02, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

(*) See, for example, some of my recent edits to Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe; Petrockstowe; Huish, Devon; Beam, Great Torrington; Denys family and Molland (apologies if any of that wasn't actually added by you).

Thanks for your work on the above pages. There's some further stuff for you to sort out at Molland#Molland lily; Talk:Manor of Molland; Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe#Descent of the manor and Margaret Rolle, 15th Baroness Clinton. Thanks,  —SMALLJIM  10:40, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

John Giffard (1602-1665)

Thanks so much for the article about John Giffard (1602-1665). I've made some edits - and have some comments for a few additional things to resolve for the article on the Talk:John Giffard (1602-1665) page.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Interested in some pointers?

Hi,

You've brought a number of great articles to Wikipedia! I've done some editing and research, lately on Monkleigh and Annery, Monkleigh, but there are really only a couple of issues. There are also some tools that make creating citations so much easier. I am hoping you're going to continue to bring interesting articles to WP! I wondered if you'd be interested in a couple of tips to make things easier and better fit the guidelines. If so, I am watching this page and will see any updates here.--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:09, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at Talk:Abbots Bickington.
Message added 02:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I want to check out a couple more articles and found this article where there was a large amount of uncited info added to a pretty clean article. So, I moved it to the talk page to resolve: 1) what is uncited, 2) what is not notable and 3) what belongs in the main articles about a person. If there are some people that you've been adding information about in multiple articles, that's a good indicator that there may need to be articles about that person or people. Here to help, but also wanting to protect work by people that follow the guidelines. CaroleHenson (talk) 02:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Rare survivals

Hi! I've noted CaroleHenson's recent cleanup of some of your work, including Abbots Bickington. It prompted me to read again through your posts at WT:UKCITIES#Manorial histories, where you raised the issue of appropriate content in articles on villages, and in your second long post there I came across this:

On the issue of biog details of seemingly unimportant people: about these people, often lords of manors, literally one thing alone will be known about them other than their date of death. It may be something apparently trivial like date of matriculation at Oxford, but that's all that has survived in the records from 400 years ago. That makes it valuable. Hence its inclusion. It hasn't been selected as pertinent, but simply because it's a rare survival of something at least.[3]

This strongly suggests that you are looking at Wikipedia as a place to store these rare survivals of ancient information. Whilst this is a worthy objective, it isn't part of Wikpedia's remit, so you may, as I recall CaroleHenson suggested to you recently, be better off setting up your own website for this purpose where you can work without our restrictions.  —SMALLJIM  10:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm very happy to work with WP restrictions, I think we're feeling our way as to just what they are in this area, following the recent discussion re Manorial Histories. I don't recall Carole having made that point to me. I'm very happy with your latest edits to Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe - not quite so happy with Carole's rewrite of Abbots Bickington, but I'll make my points on that one there. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:19, 25 June 2013 (UTC))

Further comments are below, but Carole's website suggestion is in point 5 of her reply to you of 22 June on Talk:John Giffard (1602-1665). (diff) Does it sound like a good idea?  —SMALLJIM  13:32, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Civility

Regarding this edit to CaroleHenson's talk page, please read Wikipedia:Civility and ensure you abide by it. Thanks.  —SMALLJIM  23:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Some advice

Following on from your reply of 25 June above, I'm pleased to hear that you're happy to work with the WP restrictions which, as you know, are set out in our policies, guidelines and the Manual of Style. Of course you have to be aware of them before you can abide by them and while no-one is expected to read every single page, experienced editors such as ourselves are expected to have absorbed enough knowledge to contribute without their work having to be checked and cleaned up by someone else. However, the recent bout of editing from CaroleHenson and myself has shown that this isn't the case for many of your contributions. I have focused on original research and Carole seems particularly keen on accurate sourcing.

You also say above that you're very happy with some of my latest edits: well thank you, but the point is that I shouldn't need to do such clean-up work for an editor who has made almost 14,000 manual edits to articles. Anyone with that many edits who cares about WP should be proud of the work he contributes and should strive to make it the best he can, not only in the research, but in its presentation and accuracy. Once advised that there is a problem, it's not collegial to continue and expect someone else to clean it up. The recent postings at Talk:Annery, Monkleigh are relevant here.

So... I want to urge you to commit to editing in accordance with our rules. We don't expect perfection, of course, but we can't allow a continuing flow of articles such as Whitechapel, Bishops Nympton, for example, which appear on the surface to be fine pieces of research – and, yes, I know a great deal of that goes into them – but which also contain nobody knows how much original research and citation errors and extraneous information. Not to mention the style issues.

In view of the above, here's some advice:

1. I know you are aware of our policies on original research and civility, so make sure you follow them.
2. Please ensure that all passages you add are correctly cited (see WP:PROVEIT: your regular addition of original research indicates that everything you add ought to be challenged), and
3. note that it is not acceptable to put a citation at the end of a block of text that does not cover all the content in that block (which is obvious, but WP:INTEGRITY is of some relevance here).
4. Please follow our Manual of Style in presenting your work – if you're still unsure what the "look and feel" of articles should be, a look at some of our featured articles will easily show you without having to read chunks of the manual, though it is quite well indexed.
5. Please don't add information that is not pertinent to the topic (see "Rare survivals" above)
6. We do not own the work we contribute.

We have a policy on disruptive editing which does not apply to you. But, as you can see if you read that policy, parts of it may do in the future if you continue to contribute as you have done, without taking notice of advice given and efforts made to improve your work. Although the fruits of your research are appreciated here, there is more to Wikipedia than just adding information to articles. There are other people here and we all have to get along and respect consensus opinions about how things should be done.  —SMALLJIM  13:16, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

A book from Google US

Hi again. See this chat I've just had with CaroleHenson. If it sounds like the book might be useful to you (as a taster, vol 1 is on archive.com here) and you'd like a copy, email me and I'll forward it to you.  —SMALLJIM  22:11, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at Talk:Petrockstowe.
Message added 23:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

CaroleHenson (talk) 23:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Retired

I saw your retired notice on your user page. One of the things that was a hard lesson for me to learn is that the information posted on Wikipedia needs to be provable / verifiable information. I am guessing that you've done a lot of research and know a lot about the history of Devon, and that there is a disconnect between what you know and what is provable by Wikipedia guidelines.

If you choose to work with Wikipedia, following the guidelines spelled out by Smalljim, you would be a tremendous asset. If, on the other hand, you wish to post information somewhere else on the web that has your rich armorial and genealogy/historical information, I wish you well.

{I hope you have email notification of content updates at Wikipedia.)--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:01, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I also wish you well...

...in whatever you choose to do instead. It's been recognised for a long time that the wiki way of doing things just isn't compatible with some people's preferred way of working and while that's unfortunate, it's definitely no reflection on their ability, worth or anything else. I shall ensure that as much as possible of your work remains here as a monument to those beneficial changes that you have made to Wikipedia.

If you do take the other website route, I look forward to seeing Lobsterthermidor's Genealogy Website becoming a useful web resource and maybe even a source that's regularly cited here.  —SMALLJIM  14:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Ditto - I understand why you're retiring, but sad to see you go. Hchc2009 (talk) 19:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Glad you came back

I'm glad to see that you came back!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:59, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Carole, I think you'll like my citations better in future. It was a bit of a rough lesson, but if that's how it's got to be done, I'm willing to do it. I see you're now quite an expert on North Devon! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 20:25, 29 June 2013 (UTC))

I don't know about that! I think I could have used your help at times, but I've been having fun. I did quite a number of articles about Cornwall towns and artists with someone a bit ago - and now with Devon I have felt like I've on vacation. It's been fun!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:43, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

That was a short break!

Are you willing to help check your previous contributions for OR? My message under heading "Original research" above refers. Assuming that you were gone, I started drawing up a list of articles, and was preparing a cleanup plan which involved tagging them with {{Original research}}, but I'm sure we could sort it all out quickly and quietly if we worked together. Let me know what you're prepared to do.  —SMALLJIM  23:12, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

To be honest I just want to move on. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:04, 1 July 2013 (UTC))

OK. I'll tag them all with {{Original research}} and add an associated talk page message explaining why.  —SMALLJIM  15:40, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Other Devon articles

I have been trying to be mindful of sources that you had said were good: Lauder (which I cannoot view), Lysons, Prince, etc. - and I believe John Burke's Peerage book to be a good source. If you see any sources that I'm using that aren't solid, reliable sources, please let me know. (As an FYI, I'm currently working on Petrockstowe and Robert Walpole articles.)--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:54, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Will do Carole. I like the way you work - I can see you are led on by a growing interest for a subject and follow it where it takes you. I work pretty much the same, hence I was heading Palmer House, Great Torrington way too!

• I have found an invaluable source to be Vivian, you might expect me to say that, and I believe the history of Devon is about people fundamentally, and especially the Landed gentry, who built the large houses, parts of the churches, etc., from whose ranks were appointed all the officials of local government. These are the people who populate Vivian and who are talked about in all the other works.
• Hoskins is essential, perhaps the most respected by other authors - some even dedicate their works to him - but his main work ("A New Survey of England: Devon, 1959") is an exhaustive overview summary and thus lacks detail. I think he's published much of his detailed knowledge in many specialist articles.
• Pevsner is the godfather for county architecture, church monuments etc.
• Risdon's work is also essential. He saw and recorded many documents and facts the sources of which are now lost. He is quoted by all later writers, Prince, Polwhele, Hoskins etc. The 1810 edition has notes which bring histories up to that date.
• William Pole (antiquary) is possibly even better than Risdon, but harder to get hold of.
• Hoskins, Pevsner and Risdon I find an excellent combination for cross-checking and a 3-D view.
• Lauder's Devon Families is good at least for the sort of thing that I find interesting.
• Ideally also the 2 vol ("2 part") set on the Devonshire Domesday Book, which contains translated transcripts of every entry, and copious notes on the subsequent descents of most manors and estates. Thorn, Caroline & Frank, Domesday Book, Vol. 9, Devon, Parts 1 & 2, Phillimore Press, Chichester, 1985. (That's how I knew Annery wasn't in DB, it's got very good indexes).
• Lysons is good also as you know.
• If you can pick up an old copy (the older the better) of Burke's Landed Gentry cheap, it's very useful, as it records long descents of families resident on certain estates.

I think that's probably more info than you asked for. Off some time soon to inspect you work on Annery! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC))

Wow! That's very helpful, thanks!

Yep, that would be great. User:Smalljim did some great work on it, too.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:49, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

If you're collecting Devon reference material, Carole, you shouldn't omit the 140-odd volumes of the Transactions of the Devonshire Association. Links to the online volumes (most of them up to vol 52 (1920)), a list of the titles of all the papers, and abstracts of the latest vols are on the TDA website here.

We should all be cautious in making use of those older sources like Tristram Risdon (died 1640), though, since later research can have revised or even completely overturned what they believed – that's why we usually attribute: "Risdon said ..."  —SMALLJIM  14:39, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I've bulletised Lt's useful list above for ease of reference in case anyone else comes across it. Maybe it ought to be transplanted into the Devon WikiProject – it might even liven that project up a bit!  —SMALLJIM  14:48, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Even if I say so myself, that's a damned good idea! I mean building up a list of standard sources, with comments on each, if that's allowed off mainspace or is that still POV. Thanks for the link to the TDA, I haven't looked at that yet. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:07, 2 July 2013 (UTC))

Oh, thanks. I was going to save it on my user page and that makes it much easier to reference.--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:47, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

The requirement to keep to a neutral POV only applies in article space, so which resources to categorise as useful in a WikiProject would be dependent on consensus. I'll get round to adding a list when I can, unless you want to have a go.  —SMALLJIM  18:56, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Go ahead, good idea. But more importantly, we'll have a great list of sources, but will we be "allowed" to use them in articles? All OR issues aside, please, my attempt to use the wealth of sources available for the estate of Annery were summarily confounded. (but I will make my input on that on the talk page) The TDA is a virtually untouched goldmine waiting to be exploited by WP Devon, certainly not yet systemmatically consulted by me, as you know it is stuffed full of specialist info, surely looking for its proper place on WP. Some may dismiss it as "parochial", but in the area of parish/manorial/estate histories that is exactly what's needed. We need to have a complete framework of manorial history in place into which can be inserted the odd fact gleaned from TDA. Like a christmas tree on which you can hang baubles. If you've got no tree, or a tree with insufficient branches, you can't utilise the baubles. You can't use high/detailed/specialist-level TDA content on a stub or summary article. Unless we're prepared to embrace articles which deal with local detail, e.g. Manor of Molland (OR issues aside, being fixed), most of the valuable contents of the TDA, Vivian, etc will remain unexploited by WP Devon. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 10:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC))

A talk page tip

When starting a new section on a talk page, don't click "Edit" on the previous section and then add a ==heading== beneath because this makes it look, from the edit summary, that you're adding something to the previous section – see your 29 June edit to User talk:Hchc2009 here, for instance.

Instead, click on the "New section" tag (may appear as "+") at the top of the talk page and you're presented with a Subject/headline box above the edit box. Doing it this way helps the intended recipient and/or other users see that a new topic has been started. HTH.  —SMALLJIM  14:28, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's helpful. Thanks. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC))

Talkback

Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at CaroleHenson's talk page.
Message added 13:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

 —SMALLJIM  13:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Administrator's noticeboard

Hello. Please participate in the current discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.  —SMALLJIM  21:14, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

No personal attacks

Lobsterthermidor,

I am pursuing having you blocked from my user pages, in accordance with Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Blocking policy#Protection.--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:56, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at User talk:CaroleHenson. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted or removed.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor then please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you.

Lobster, the point to note here is twofold: first, you have now been requested by User:CaroleHenson that you no longer post on her talkpage - this is an acceptable request, and you can be blocked for WP:HARASS should you continue to post there. Second, you have been warned (again) about your incivility - civility is a core pillar of this project, and you can also be blocked for chronic incivility and personal attacks. When you are in a disagreement, use dispute resolution, and don't cheapen your argument by resorting to lowball tactics (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I'll be more polite in future. Apologies to CH. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:03, 10 July 2013 (UTC))

Lobsterthermidor returned

Hi! Lobsterthermidor has returned to tie up a few loose ends. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC))

September 2013

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October 2013

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• charged with a bend, Argent, collar'd, Or, between 2 apple branches fructed of the second".(Lysons, Samuel & Daniel. (1822). [http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=50555 ''Magna
• |}

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• & 4th: ''Gules, four fusils ermine'' (Dinham), 2nd & 3rd ''Gules, three pairs of arches argent'' (Arches, for Sir Richard Arches (d.1417) of Eythorpe, Cranwell and Little Kimble, Buckinghamshire,

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Disruptive editing

Please stop your disruptive editing, as you did at Dunsland. Your edits have been reverted or removed.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively may result in your being blocked from editing. This cannot continue. I corrected a number of substantive errors that you made in this article, and made many other improvements, as explained in my edit summaries (and just now at the article talk page). I see no need to explain these changes further, and I am not prepared to instigate further fruitless attempts to explain our policies and guidelines to you - see above, and several article talk pages etc. This templated warning sets out the things you can do now. Reverting Dunsland again is not an option.  —SMALLJIM  20:18, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Ignored. This message was posted by an admin who is an interested editor in this sphere, who has been engaging in edit-warring with Lobsterthermidor for two years. He is here confusing his role of admin and interested editor. The disruptive edit was in fact his, a total and drastic rewrite of a new article (Dunsland) submitted by me, without any discussion on talk page whatsoever, a clear action of edit-warring in the middle of a prolonged edit-war. I simply reverted his drastic edits, which he must have known were part of his pattern of behaviour of edit warring and likely to prove inflammatory, and asked him to discuss on talk first. His edit-warring with Lobsterthermidor is becoming increasingly obsessive and pedantic - he broke off a 2 month wikibreak especially to continue his edit warring with 3 of my brand new articles. His contributions log evidences his actions in this regard. I've made suggestions as how to end the edit war, namely by not making major edits to each others' articles (I've never knowingly ever edited one of his articles, the traffic's all been one-way) without prior discussion. Let's see if he ceases his behaviour. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:32, 31 October 2013 (UTC))

I can assure you that I have very carefully segregated my admin role from that of an interested editor, and that warning was posted in that second role. It was intended to help you mend your ways before I finally gave in and asked another admin to look at your behaviour again. I have almost infinite patience, but I can do no more.

For interested parties, the relevant discussions regarding Lt's behaviour since his return are at Talk:Dunsland, Talk:John Arscott (1613-1675), Talk:Tetcott and Talk:Whitechapel, Bishops Nympton. I've already dealt with his other points on those pages.  —SMALLJIM  15:53, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.  —SMALLJIM  15:53, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Apology

Lobsterthermidor, I want to apologise for that second revert to Dunsland and for the above warning that I issued. A temporary loss of my normal imperturbability caused me to manage the situation badly. I'm sorry – it won't happen again. If you want to revert Dunsland back to your version, I'll be happy to work on improving it with you, calling on WP:3O if appropriate.

Going forward, since the editors who've seen our disagreements have shown little interest in my concern for accuracy in WP's articles, there seems to be no point in continuing to review your edits and running the risk of causing further discord. So although I propose to tidy up some of the outstanding issues, I'll otherwise only deal with anything that I happen across during routine editing. In other words you can rejoice that the "two year vexatious edit war with Smalljim, who has developed a creepy habit of following him around WP" [4] – as you have picturesquely described my intermittent attempts to help you since July last year – has ended :)  —SMALLJIM  13:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Apology accepted, thank you. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:30, 19 November 2013 (UTC))

A barnstar for you!

	The Resilient Barnstar
	You are the pride and joy of Wikipedia! Without people like you Wikipedia would not move forward! Banaster Giver Extra Polite (talk) 11:37, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Wow! That means a hell of a lot to me. Thanks a million. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:05, 9 November 2013 (UTC))

November 2013

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• ; "fig" by Rokewode, John Gage, History and Antiquities of Suffolk: Thingoe Hundred, 1838, pp.218-9); "Aspen" by the Middlesex Heraldry Society<ref>www.middlesex-heraldry.org.uk re blason of arms on

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• billets or'',<ref>As shown quartered by Bourchier in stained glass at [[Hengrave Hall]], Suffolk. (The History and Antiquities of Hengrave, in Suffolk, by John Gage [http://books.google.co.uk/books?

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• gules between four water bougets sable'' (Bourchier); 2nd: ''Gules billety or a fess argent'' (Louvain, [[English feudal barony|feudal barons]] of [[Little Easton]], Essex (for the mother of the

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• . Apparently no letter was ever received by Honor Grenville/Plantagenet from "Elizabeth Basset", (nil from Philippa, 3 from Katherine, 10 from Anne, 13 from Mary.(Byrne, vol.1, p.87). The names of

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• of Sir [[John IV Dynham]] (1406-1458)<ref>Vivian, p.46</ref> of [[Nutwell, Woodbury|Nutwell]], [[Kingskerswell and [[Hartland, Devon|Hartland]]. Joan Beaumont was heiress to her brother Sir Philip
• [[Arthur Plantagenet, 1st Viscount Lisle]], bastard son of King [[Edward IV of England|Edward IV]] (she married secondly Thomas Monke (died 1583), of Potheridge in [[Merton, Devon]] (as his first

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Autopatrolled rights added

I was cleaning up the back end of new pages and came across John I Rolle (1522-1570) as unpatrolled. Looking further at your prolific article creation history I was shocked to find that you didn't have autoptrolled rights. I've added that privilege along with reviewer to your account. Cheers. Toddst1 (talk) 14:54, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Very much appreciated, thanks. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 15:04, 11 November 2013 (UTC))

December 2013

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• John]], (1643–1723) The Worthies of Devon, 1810 edition, p.462, biography of Sir William Hankford]]; [[Tristram Risdon|Risdon, Tristram]] (d.1640), Survey of Devon, 1811 edition, London, 1811, with

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Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at Talk:John Fortescue (judge).
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File permission problem with File:HugodeRosel 0001.jpg

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This is a photo of artwork created in 1626, published as frontispiece of Two Centuries of Family History (1930). Apologies for the unclear wording. Should be no problems with licence, the image is in the public domain. I will upload to commons. Hope that's OK. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:53, 10 January 2014 (UTC))

January 2014

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• 1503 by Bishop of Exeter [[John Arundel (bishop of Exeter)|John Arundel]] (reigned 1502-1504).<ref>[https://archive.org/stream/historyofgranvil00gran#page/n9/mode/2up Granville, Roger, (Rector of

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• The river rises close to the border with [[Cornwall]] (north of the source of the [[River Tamar]] [http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=227510&y=117240&
• ]s of Great Torrington and other persons assembled to witness the commencement of the"'' ...(word chiselled out (ROLLE?)... ''"CANAL undertaken at the sole expense of his Lordship. James Green

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Bideford Long Bridge

Hello, Lobsterthermidor, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on Bideford Long Bridge, appears to be directly copied from http://www.northdevonjournal.co.uk/closer-look-Bideford-s-Long-Bridge/story-12151830-detail/story.html. Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted.

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on Bideford Long Bridge if necessary. MadmanBot (talk) 12:53, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Not guilty! Following the MadMan duplicate detector report, all I can say is I split out this text word for word from an existing WP article Bideford, as noted on the edit summary, so it appears that article is the root of the problem if any, unless of course the North Devon Jnl lifted copy from WP. Nevertheless I will undertake to rephrase the existing text to remove any possible copyright problem.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC))

Move reverted.

Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Your bold move of Townhouse has been reverted because an editor has found it to be controversial. Per Wikipedia:Requested moves, a move request must be placed on the article's talk page, and the request be open for discussion for seven days, "if there is any reason to believe a move would be contested". If you believe that this move is appropriate, please initiate such a discussion. Please note that moving a page with a longstanding title and/or a large number of incoming links is more likely to be considered controversial, and may be contested. Per WP:TWODABS, a disambiguation page is not needed at all where there are only two meanings asserted for a term, and one can be considered primary over the other. In that case, disambiguation can be accomplished in a hatnote. It appears that the meaning of "townhouse" referring to continuous row housing is the common meaning of the term throughout most of the English-speaking world. bd2412 T 15:09, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I think that's what the Brits call "terraced housing". But that's fine. Keep the US sense as the primary page and the split-off page is there for those Brits who follow the traditional sense. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 23:09, 3 February 2014 (UTC))

Thanks for your understanding. Cheers! bd2412 T 13:43, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

February 2014

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• Before the [[Norman Conquest]] of 1066 the highest sub-regal authority in Devon was the [[Ealdorman], of which office the later Earldom of Devon was a re-invention, if not an actual

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Category:English copyists

Hi Lobsterthermidor, I've nominated the category that you recently created, Category:English copyists for deletion. If you would like to take part in the discussion you can find it HERE. Kind regards. Sionk (talk) 20:44, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Manorial history

Thanks for your edit adding the manorial history to Shapwick, Somerset. I was wondering if you can make any sense/clarify the paragraph on Northmoor Green about manorial owners which seems to be shorthand but also has Dunning in brackets?— Rod ^talk 08:26, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Looks like total gibberish to me, have deleted it (if you disagree please restore). Better to start again from standard sources on history of Somerset.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:47, 16 February 2014 (UTC))

Thanks. Fine by me.— Rod ^talk 15:03, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 19 February

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March 2014

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• journal, it is now believed his brother Adam Wyote was the town clerk and author of the journal (Lamplugh, Lois, Barnstaple: Town on the Taw, South Molton, 2002, pp.45-6</ref> Wyote (or Wyatt) was

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• for Fowey for the [[Short Parliament]] and re-elected in November 1640 for the [[Long Parliament]].}{{sfn|Willis|1750|p=230, 242}} He supported the King in the Civil War and was disabled from sitting

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• bend gules three cinquefoils or'' (Stradling); 2: ''Azure, a chevron between three crescents or'' (Berkerolles of [[Coity Castle]], Glamorgan; 3: ''Chequy...and...afess ermine'' (Turberville of [[

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LORD OF BOWLAND

Stephen William Jolly, a Cambridge don, is Lord of the Forest of Bowland, according to the Manorial Society. He is known as "William Bowland" within the Forest (check with the Forest Archive at Slaidburn; contact Helen Wallbank). His son, Henry, has the name "Fitzjoly" as William Bowland's natural child.

Please check facts before proposing deletion! Manorial (talk) 14:02, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not an appropriate place to promote purchased manorial titles. Please use your own private website for that purpose, if you must.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC))

Hello

You recently edited Coat of arms of the Netherlands. You may be interested in a Request for Comment on it's talk page. Fry1989 ^eh? 16:48, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Have added my comment to the talk page. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:55, 27 March 2014 (UTC))

April 2014

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May 2014

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• a Description of the County of Devon, Sir John-William de la Pole (ed.), London, 1791, p.498). Alternatively: ''Ermine, a chevron gules a chief azure fretty or'' (per Vivian, (Ed.) The

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