User talk:Landroving Linguist

Cushitic languages

Hi Landroving Linguist! I have started to add some basic typological information in Cushitic languages. It is quite bloated with speculations about unattested languages (like the language of the Kerma culture), but until today completely lacked information about what Cushitic languages actually look like. I use the overview chapters by Mous and Appleyard (both 2012) as main sources. Probably you might want to join. And please correct my edits if I have misinterpreted anything in the sources. I know you have first-hand expertise which could be very valuable here. –Austronesier (talk) 20:29, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Austronesier: To my shame, I noticed that I hadn't even watched the Cushitic languages page so far, so thanks for pointing me towards it - I have worked mostly on Nilo-Saharan languages over the past 12 years, but I may get back to Cushitic fairly soon. It looks like you have done an excellent job about it, and Mous and Appleyard are both straight sources to use on Cushitic languages. What you have added on linguistic features of Cushitic all makes sense. Many thanks, and best wishes, Landroving Linguist (talk) 08:16, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome, and thank you for the supportive comments! –Austronesier (talk) 13:26, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Languages of Africa

Hi, my edits were to clear off the ambiguity in that article and not any other motive. I do not wish to engage in edit wars, so i have decided to discuss it to bring mutual understanding. The Akan language is a cluster of several dialects such as Akuapem, Baoule, Anyi, Ashante, Sefwi, Fante, Bono(Abron) and others. So i believe it is not appropriate to single out only the Bono(Abron) dialect, which in other way sounds like being different from the Akan language. So it is more behooving to take it out to reflect in the Akan language. Otherwise, all the other Akan languages need to be highlighted to render it more appropriate.

The reference in the Akan language did not provide for the number of the population, so i taught it wise to update it without changing the reference. But since it seems more important as far as you are concern, i would provide for it, after the discussion. Thanks. Sacrifice06 (talk) 19:42, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

User:Sacrifice06, thanks for striving to resolve this question through discussion! About the question whether a speech variety is a dialect or a language in its own right, like in all matters, we need to defer to published sources. Ethnologue on this page lists Abron language as a language separate from Akan language, although it acknowledges a close genetic relationship. It is very common that members of speech communities have different attitudes regarding the relationships between their speech varieties than linguists who attempt to classify these languages, and therefore there is often some disagreement on Wikipedia on these matters. Therefore it is important to stick to what published sources (such as the widely accepted Ethnologue) have to say on these matters. Sentiments resulting from our own observations are what is called original research, and they are not sufficient to alter any information based on published knowledge.

In the same way, the Akan language is listed with roughly 8.3 million mothertongue speakers worldwide, plus another million second-language speakers, according to the Ethnologue. The 27 million that you claimed without source are therefore way above any published source. Your number seems to assume that practically every Ghanaian speaks Akan as a mother tongue, and I am pretty sure that you know pretty well that this is not the case. Be that as it may, we have the choice between leaving the figure of the Swedish National Encyclopaedy at 11 million, or change it to the Ethnologue figures as stated above. What is not an option, and will get reverted according to the rules of Wikipedia usually within hours of the edit (by me or others), is a change of figures that does not reflect any cited reliable source. If you reinstate unsupported population figures without providing sources (and not just your web-blog), your actions will be seen as unconstructive editing, and will lead to warnings, temporary blocks and, finally, terminal blocking from Wikipedia. Please don't go down that path, but share your good knowledge about matters in Ghana according to the rules of Wikipedia. Other users will respect you tremendously for doing that. Warm wishes, Landroving Linguist (talk) 21:05, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

User:Landroving Linguist, actually my main aim here is to correct those inveterate mistakes, and what non-Akans do not understand. Bono dialect(Abron) is the first and the earliest dialect in the Akan language. So, yes whats on this page, i can only describe it as very unfortunate and fortunate, and beyond understanding. Then i ask, what's this Akan language on that page about?. At the same time, if you scrutinize the Bono(Abron) dialect on the same page, it tells you as being Akan language. I have read a lot of this Akan language and know massively, kindly read on [1] or [2]. Or better still the comprehensive note on the Akan language(s) in this pdf, from page 88-116. It tells you about the Akan languages and its variations or comparisons.

AS for the population, i have no web-log, i just seek to do the right thing by updating it. Thanks. Sacrifice06 (talk) 22:44, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi User:Sacrifice06, thanks for this clarification! Again, it comes down to your personal knowledge that the facts stated are not as they are reported in the reliable sources. The sources you bring up are 40 to 45 years old, and therefore need to be disregarded when compared to the 2020 edition of the Ethnologue. In the face of this, you only have one of two options: leave the information as it stands, even if you know that it is wrong, or correct it based on a current reliable source, which you also need to provide together with that correction. It may sound terrible to let wrong information stand, but these are the rules of Wikipedia: it is an encyclopedia of published knowledge. There are pages where I know the information to be wrong, but since my better information is not based on published reliable sources, I cannot and will not change the information on these changes. The same is expected of you. You or I are not allowed to correct inveterate mistakes if we cannot provide the published reliable sources that support our view. The same is true for population numbers and the numbers of language speakers. My most frequent edits on Wikipedia are reverting attempts of editors who want to inflate the speaker numbers of their favourite languages in the face of published sources that give the correct numbers. And Wikipedia judges a number as correct when it agrees with the published reliable sources, and not necessarily with the perception of the language speakers. In fact, these seldom agree, because everyone believes to speak the most important and grandest language in the district, country, continent or even the universe. The same may be true for me, which is why I don't edit speaker numbers for the German language. Landroving Linguist (talk) 09:44, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks User:Landroving Linguist for your cooperation. I believe in always using reliable source as WP requires and have always adhere to that. I gave those incipient sources so as to throw more insight to the Akan language and nothing else.

I have removed, modified and improved it with Ethnologue and other reliable source for the population. With the population, even if you move downwards to the second table titled “By region” to the West Africa column, it has already been updated there. Shalom.Sacrifice06 (talk) 19:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Are you playing some game with me that I don't understand? Why do you profess your faith in reliable sources, when your edits don't quote them correctly? I pointed you to Ethnologue which states that Abron is a separate language, and you delete it anyway, citing the Ethnologue. You provide four sources about Akan population numbers (twice given in percent of a total population) and you change the article to a number that none of the sources quote. Please, before you make any more edits, acquaint yourself with Wikipedia's rules on original research and reliable sources, because all my assumptions of good faith on your part lead to the conclusion that you have not grasped their meaning. Landroving Linguist (talk) 19:54, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 2

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Agaw people, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Amhara. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

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Bench language

Because you are someone who has edited both the Bench language article and its talk page, you have been randomly selected as someone to ask for help with Talk:Bench language#small errors and omissions i don't have the information to fix. ;-)

Your assistance would, of course, be completely voluntary. However, if you are unable or unwilling to work Bench, do you know who might be a better choice?

96.244.220.178 (talk) 08:22, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Mursi people

Hi Landroving Linguist, I apologized for persistant force edits. I respect your contribution. I seem Mursi people who live in southwestern Ethiopia, in the region Southern Nations, Nationalities, and Peoples' Region are ethnic minority in Ethiopia, in contrast with Surma people, and mostly Nuer people and Anuak people. The image listed on People of Ethiopia largely relies on an ethnic majority, such as Amhara Tigrayans, Harari and Oromo people, while the latter one occupies larger portion of demographics, so I thought Oromo people should be displayed on the gallary list. It doesn't mean they are "inferior", but doesn't substitute in Ethiopian demographics as whole. The Supermind (talk) 15:16, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Zala language

Hi Andreas,

I created this stub because I didn't know what else to do with it. Do you? Ethn. lists it as a dialect of Wolaitta, but doesn't provide a source, so there's no good reason to think that's true. It might be one of the things called "Gamo", not that "Gamo" is a single language anyway. I have found a word list, but it's so close to both Gofa and Wolaitta that I can't determine anything (besides that being OR). — kwami (talk) 22:38, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Honestly, I have not heard of Zala before - it is certainly not on any list of Ethiopian languages I've seen, not even the one used by the Ethiopian census in 2007, which looks quite different from the Ethnologue sample. But I did find this survey report by Alemayehu Abebe which mentions Zala as a place name, the origin of a Gofa speaker. I remember that Alemayehu did an extensive Ometo cluster study at Cologne University in the 1990s, based on this survey (it was done some years before its publication by SIL), so he may have placed more information into his thesis, which I have never seen. Currently I am not in Ethiopia to ask people there, but once I manage to get there again, I will try to find out more. Landroving Linguist (talk) 23:48, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Cerulli (1929) [in the article] contrasts Zala and Gofa, but that hardly means they're distinct languages. — kwami (talk) 01:57, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Right. Did you have a look at Lamberti and Sottile (1997, btw, they spell it Wolaytta)? I don't have access to it these days. If Cerulli's article and Roger Blench's memo are all we have on Zala as a language, I would probably not create an article on it. Roger Blench most likely had Cerulli as his only source, and Cerulli himself (I haven't seen his article, as my Italian is somewhat rusty (that is, non-existent)) probably just encountered Zala as the language spoken in that place during his travels. In Ethiopia's current nationalistic climate, if there was any inclination by the people of Zala to have their language recognized as separate from Gofa or Wolaytta (sic!), they would have expressed it very loudly by now, and we would have heard of them. But since all we really have of them is a 90 year old article, I would give this a pass as a language. Landroving Linguist (talk) 08:09, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello Mr Andreas Joswig

I taught that talking the truth will not hurt anybody. Hussen Homeritae (talk) 23:02, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Well, you should know that nothing may hurt people as much as the truth! In any case, in order to understand why I reverted your edits, you need to understand the rules of Wikipedia, to which we all subscribe when we participate in this project. One of these rules is that Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view and therefore for every information that is placed on a page there needs to be a reliable source that supports this information, and this source needs to be stated in the article. So, in order to edit an article, it is not enough to have a firm conviction that this edit corresponds with the truth; you need to be able to prove the statement by pointing to acceptable published evidence. When you don't do that, your edits will usually be reverted within hours, if not minutes. There is nothing personal about that. I have reverted edits that I have personally held to be true, and I have sometimes deliberately not placed information in Wikipedia although I believed it to be true, just because I could not support it with reliable sources. Landroving Linguist (talk) 23:25, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Shabo

Hi LL. I was just dropping by to give some advice, apologies if you were already aware.

After you thanked me for my edit (you are welcome btw :), I looked at the edit history of the page and saw the 'fun' you had there when the now deleted text was introduced. When you get a source that bad, you should always take it to the reliable sources noticeboard, generally speaking we can get rid of the really out-there stuff quite quickly that way.

Anyway, if something like that happens again, and you prefer to avid wiki-lawyering, drop me a line and I will take it there myself. All the best. Boynamedsue (talk) 22:14, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice - I really didn't quite know what to do about it. I talked a bit to the editor on his talk page, which seemed to have discouraged him enough that he didn't further object when another editor toned his language down. I found the the Wikipedia Fringe notice board and threatened him with that, but didn't follow through when he stopped his activities. So next time the RS notice board it is. I may take you up on your offer to handle it for me when the opportunity arises again. Landroving Linguist (talk) 23:17, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Any time! I feel a little bad for for the person who added the text, I think your talk page comments were very appropriate and sensitive. In the end he is fascinated by the same thing we are, and he just needs a push in the right direction. Boynamedsue (talk) 10:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

My dear Boynamedsue! Your pity for me touched me a little :) My free advice to you for the future: Before you start pitying someone, ask if he needs your pity. Ukrainian Wikipedia has a large article about me: https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Рассоха_Ігор_Миколайович Horhius555 (talk) 09:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Issues with User:MfactDr

Hello User:Landroving Linguist, I saw you interacting with User:MfactDr, telling them to stop making false claims that the plain green, yellow, and red Ethiopian flag is an Amhara ethnic or nationalist flag on one of the articles you were looking at. The user User:MfactDr, has gone further in making these claims now affecting about 10 other Wikipedia articles with the same poorly sourced claims. I've tried to fix as much as I can but the editor is persistent and may undo a lot of the changes I instituted to undo the malicious edits they have made (also see User talk:MfactDr for more information). ItsLife1 (talk) 15:19, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I have placed the pages you mention there on my watchlist. So if the flag comes back as the banner of Amharic nationalism, without the provision of a better source, I can take action. But I think the editor got the message - he is really here to contribute constructively to Wikipedia, but sometimes gets carried away by his nationalist feelings. Landroving Linguist (talk) 16:47, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Disruptive editing warring of ItsLife1

Hi Landroving Linguist,

There are lot pages disrupted and negatively edited by ItsLife1. He added words between articles; deleting/ removing contents without explain, most of contents contradict with sources and go further to attacking editors and engaging edit-warring to override other contribution of editors.

. The ItsLife1 uses unnecessary and unsupported racially inflammatory language and ethnic slur and promoted pro-naftenya natioanlism, which Ethiopian people complain about century. The editor work misleading other editors and against Wikipedia editing policy. Here the page heavily vandalized and destructively edited. oromo people, Hachalu Hundessa riots, Amhara people, ethiopian nationalism, Prosperity party, fano ,Naftenya, qeerroo, ethiopian emprire, Jawar Mohammed, Amhara Region, Ethiopia and tigray conflict

Here unfounded statement ItsLife1 inserted in oromo people page:

“Certain non-Shewan Oromo had been branded by Naftenyans as outsiders and called the derogatory term "galla", meaning "savage", "slave", or "enemy," the term was originally used by Somalis to refer to non-Somalis (as a term for foreigner or outsider) and applied to non-Muslims (as a term for infidels).[44] The term “Galla” was also used by Northern Oromo clans against Southern Oromo clans for having different social class characteristics from each other. Tigrayans were also known for calling Amhara people “galla” or “half-galla” because Amhara majority regions of that time period (mostly in modern day Amhara Region) in Northern Ethiopia were ruled over by Northern Oromo clans such as the Yejju Oromo clan and the Wollo Oromo clan with the Amharas being subjects of the Oromo rulers,[45] especially during the Zemena Mesafint in which the Yejju Oromo ruled over the Northern Ethiopian portion of Ethiopian Empire. During the 17th century, the Yejju dynasty (more specifically, the Warasek dynasty) ruled much of the Ethiopian Empire during the Zemene Mesafint or "Era of Princes", changing the language in the court of Gondar (in modern day Amhara Region) to the Oromo language.”

• He claimed “ galla term originally used by Somali and northern oromo clans used against southern oromo clans.” I have gone through Both sources never mentioned. Deliberately distorting statement is a serious an offence. All this statement is made-up story not validating

Please check sock puppet account and other account pushing the same thing agenda and intervene the statement made on that page. what He really doing is not right , Edit warring is the act of overriding the contributions of other editors. MfactDr (talk) 09:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Many Thanks.

Hi User:MfactDr, as I told you on your talk page, ethnic-based nationalism in Ethiopia is sadly not just a problem of Oromos, and on the pages I watch I usually step in when nationalism championing any group is clouding the judgment of the respective editor. As User:ItsLife1 has prompted me now to observe a few more pages than before, that naturally implies that I'm also going to observe his actions on these pages. That being said, so far I did not see any need to take action against his edits, and I hope he keeps it that way. As usual, the best way to avoid trouble is to avoid POV-statements, and to back everything up with first-rate sources. I really don't care about the content of the arguments racking Ethiopia these days, certainly not enough to take any sides, but it saddens me that almost all protagonists blame the others of wrongdoings they themselves apply liberally. You are a case in point by calling your antagonist Neftenya to then accuse him of inflammatory language. As long as this kind of stuff continues, Ethiopia will not have peace. I really hope that Wikipedia can become a place where Ethiopians first start to work together again without othering the others. You could start doing that now, same as ItsLife1. BTW, I am not an administrator, so I don't have any Sockpuppetry tools at my fingertips. When I notice something, I go the correct notice board. Landroving Linguist (talk) 12:59, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Persistent Disruptive Edits by User:MfactDr - The same issue from before has resurfaced.

Hi Landroving Linguist, User:MfactDr has started adding the plain green, yellow, red Ethiopian flag back on some Wikipedia articles again claiming that it’s the ethnic flag of the Amhara people when it’s actually used by many Ethiopians and not solely by the Amharas. I’ve seen and tried to revert their disruptive edits on Ethiopian Empire but I believe this issue is going to be a persistent issue if action is not taken by someone with authority on here. ItsLife1 (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2021 (UTC)ItsLife1 (talk) 23:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

ItsLife1 stop accusing me for nothing!. I am here contributing positive contents nothing else. You reverted my work multiple times and putting unsourced contents and removed contents without explaining on multiple pages. The issue is not about flag. It solved by Landroving Linguist advise me not to put it. If you have any other issue let raise your issue. I raised the issue of your work but you failed to response MfactDr (talk) 23:39, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

User:ItsLife1, User:MfactDr, I was out of internet for two days, and now I notice that you two are back at each other's throat again. Well, I checked, and noticed that MfactDr did not reinsert the plain Ethiopian flag as ethnic Amhara since last time I warned him about it, so why do you (ItsLife1) claim that he did? And MfactDr, why do you accuse ItsLife1 of vandalism? You may not like his edits, and his behaviour may become even increasingly non-constructive, as your private feud goes on, but his edits by no means come anywhere close to Wikipedia's definition of vandalism, so please stop throwing around this term in situations where it clearly does not apply. As you can see from Keith's edit below, your edit-war is getting both of you close to blocking measures, so you really need to take the heat out of this, and restrict yourself to edits that are accompanied by first-rate sources, desist from slurs and and verbal attacks, and just calm down. I still see that both of you want to contribute responsibly to Wikipedia, but currently you are making it both difficult for each other, escalating an edit war that is really not necessary. You both know the rules of the project - now is the time to both adhere to them. Landroving Linguist (talk) 10:16, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Oromo people article problems

Hello Landroving Linguist, hope you do not mind me contacting you as you appear to have some background on articles relating to Oromo people and have interaction with the editors of that page. I have no knowledge of the area and could not really make a jugement on what is a valid and neurtal position for the article would be. Could you take a look and make any changes that you feel fit to bring it to a neurtral POV.

I could block both ItsLife1 and MfactDr for edit-waring but that would not achieve a stable neutral article. If you think that action should be taken to protect the article in anyway then let me know. Keith D (talk) 02:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Dear Keith, thanks for looking into this. Yes, quite a lot of articles have turned into a battle field for these two editors, but I hope that they both can calm down enough over the next few days that blocks may not be necessary. I think they are warned that other people, even admins, take notice, and that may call them to order. I will have a look at their articles and see that I can get them into an acceptable state, if I can find some sources. Landroving Linguist (talk) 10:21, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Shabo language

Bizarre discussion on whether Ihor Rassoka's paper on the connection between Shabo language and Sumerian language is a reliable source

Just now I saw your personal letter about edits in the article about the Shabo language. And I saw that my edits in the article were deleted again. I consider it beneath my dignity to waste time on a further "war of edits" - after all, the topic of the Shabo language classification is interesting for an extremely small number of people. And for me it is not the main topic of research. An article in such a journal was needed in order to have something to show to geneticists in order to interest them in the search in Ethiopia (and especially among Shabo) of the Far Eastern haplogroup O2a-M95. Yes, you have successfully “exposed” my connection with Ihor Rassokha. However, your closeness to Roger Blench is no less obvious. Perhaps our ideas about morality are significantly different. But I am writing this letter on the basis that you are really interested in scientific truth, not only in personal ambitions. One of your remarks is certainly true: my English is definitely worse than yours. However, you perfectly understood the essence of the article, as well as the essence of our discussion. So your pride in your English will not prevent you from understanding my following counterarguments: 1) You: “In any case, linguists have come to reject phylogenetic evidence in the reconstruction of language history, because it can be quickly shown that language and genome often go very separate ways.” - Really?! I'm not even talking about direct quotes in this article on the opinion about the "Austro-Asian" haplogroup. But let's remember: the decisive turning point in the discussion about the Indo-European ancestral homeland occurred precisely when the data of geneticists became known about a sharp genetic change in population at the beginning of the Bronze Age. And the most obvious example: the Siberian people of the Kets (about 200 people) sharply differ from their neighbors by the predominance of the haplogroup Q (not Q-anon :) ) characteristic of the American Indians. And now linguists have proven belonging Kets to the Na-Dene American family. Or do these linguists live in a different Universe than your "linguists have come to reject"? 2) You: "the numbers of cognates reached is so low that comparative linguists would always throw it out as within the range of statistical coincidence." - Really?! Name me at least one comparative linguist for whom the affinity of 20 words from the 100-word Swadesh List remains "the range of statistical coincidence." Or are you yourself such a linguist? 3) You: "very unconvincing wordpairs are presented as obvious cognates, without any kind of presentation of how a reconstruction may be accomplished". First, the methodology for comparing Shabo and Sumerian with modern Austro-Asian languages was the same. And in this case, the relationship of the Austro-Asian languages among themselves is just as unconvincing. But for some reason, linguists from a parallel universe still proved the kinship of the Austro-Asian languages. Secondly, as far as I know, a complete reconstruction of the Proto-Austro-Asian language (like Indo-European) does not yet exist. But there is a Mon-Khmer reconstruction. It was used when working on the article, but for reasons of economy it was not included in the finished text. I generally give preference to data of real languages, rather than subjective reconstructions. But as expected, there were much more coincidences here. For example: Sumerian – Mon-Khmer reconstruction: 82 words and 67 meanings out of Swadesh-100 list. I doubt very much that you, from the height of your knowledge of English, will read this letter at all. But human life is a long thing, and Wikipedia remembers old edits. Come in handy :) (talk) 20:40, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Horhius555 (talk) 20:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Horhius555 Certainly I do read everything that is dropped on my talk page. Let me assure you that I didn't want to show off my English (just like for you, not my mother tongue) to you when I pointed out some things that the editors of your journal didn't care to edit, in spite of the money you paid them for it. What you wrote now certainly was of the best English. Good English is certainly not your problem, but I doubt that we'll ever agree on the appropriateness of placing a link between Shabo and Austroasian languages on Wikipedia. I'm glad that you have given up the effort, because it would be very frustrating for all sides. All the best for your further research! Landroving Linguist (talk) 21:35, 14 February 2021 (UTC) Sometimes silence is much more eloquent than words. I have given three serious counterarguments that question your competence as a comparative linguist. You are silent in response. Sapienti sat.Horhius555 (talk) 08:40, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Horhius555 Well, in response to this, let me 'prove' to you here that German (my mother tongue) and the Afroasiatic languages of Ethiopia clearly must belong to one and the same language family, using your methodology. various surefire cognates between Germanic and Ethiopian Afroasiatic languages English Germanic Ethiopian AA one ajns (German) and (Amharic) six siks (English) sdst (Amharic) seven sɛvən (English) seβa (Amharic) ten tseːn (German) tsɨkːa (Awŋi) tongue tsuŋə (German) tsaŋ (Awŋi) domestic animal lam (German, meaning lamb) lam (Amharic, meaning cow) all al.lə (German) wulːa (Awŋi) donkey dɔŋki (English) dɨɣwari (Awŋi) dry kaːg (German) kagi (Awŋi) empty nixts (German, meansː nothing) naɣesi (Awngi) leg lɛg (English) lɨkw (Awngi) how wiː (German) wɨta (Awngi) child læd (English) lɨdʒ (Amharic) much mɐtʃ (English) mintʃ (Awngi) old owld (English) wulidʒu (Awŋi) sweat ʃwaijs (German) sisq (Awŋi) throw wɛrfən (German) wɨwɨr (Awŋi) when wɜn (English) weni (Awŋi) yes jɛs (English) jiga (Awŋi) horse pfɛrd (German) fɛrɛs (Amharic) eye aj (English) ajn (Amharic) These twenty words are probably all among the Swadesh 100, and if I had spent a bit more time, I could have found a few more, basically comparing only two languages against two other languages, always picking the closest similarity. According to what you did in your essay on your side of the linguistic universe, you would have no right to claim that my data is bogus (which it certainly is), as you really did not have anything better on offer, just using more languages, in this way exponentially increasing your opportunities to find 'cognates'. Landroving Linguist (talk) 14:15, 15 February 2021 (UTC) 1) You: "as you really did not have anything better on offer, just using more languages, in this way exponentially increasing your opportunities to find 'cognates'". - Nonsense. I compared the Austro-Asian languages (Santali, Chewong, Mon, Khmer, Vietnamese) in pairs with each other and in the same way in pairs with Shabo and Sumerian. Accordingly, for example, the Khmer language had 28 matches with Vietnamese on a 100-word list, 33 with Mon, 28 with Chewong, 17 with Santali, 26 with Shabo and 22 with Sumerian. 2) Professional linguists compare related languages in PAIRS. You have mixed in one heap FOUR pairs of languages instead of ONE. Let's count: German / Amharic - 3 matches, German / Awŋi - 8 matches, English / Amharic - 4 matches, English / Awŋi - 6 matches. I don’t know what it is better to compare with: with the "Shell game" or with the Benny Hill show.Horhius555 (talk) 18:41, 15 February 2021 (UTC)Horhius555 Well, this is not what you presented in your article. What you presented is this (and I just took the liberty to put it into a table): various comparisons between Shabo and Austroasian languages, Rassokha 2020, p. 62 "The most obvious Shabo/Austro-Asiatic examples" English Shabo Austroasiatic 1 Austroasiatic 2 breast duh tɔh (Mon) dah (Khmer) claw feŋgi chang (Vietnamese) sanem (Mon) come amo mɔɔk (Khmer) ma (Santali) die k'o qua đơi (Vietnamese) gujuk' (Santali) dog kaan ʔɛŋ (Chewong) ear k’iti kəto (Mon) feather c’eka sok (Mon) sɔk (Chewong), sak (Khmer) fish c’aŋa con ca (Vietnamese) hair c’eeka sok (Mon) sɔk (Chewong), sak (Khmer) (neither you nor your editors noticed that this is the same as feather, so not really another 'cognate') hand eːtta ti (Santali), toa (mon) tay (Vietnamese), day (Khmer) head k'oyi kuy (Chewong) horn k\are (?) krɛ̀aŋ (Mon) knee hotu ktoŋ (Chewong) know ɗɛ tɛm (Mon) baḍae (Santali) long ɗama dai (Vietnamese) meat hà ʔay (Chewong) not -be ba (Santali) person man mɔnuh (Khmer) sleep tolʔam toik (Mon) ʔam (Chewong) small hɛdeb huḍiń (Santali) smoke ciimbi siyay (Chewong) stay hitta hətao (Mon) stone manna mɔˀ ((Mon) tmaa (Khmer) tail hateʔ hətaʔ (Mon) kantuy (Khmer) that ŋa ona (Santali) nũʔ (Chewong), nuh (Khmer) this ney nɔˀ (Mon), cai nay (Vietnamese) nui (Santali), nuh (Khmer, same as 'this') tongue handa ʔandaat (Khmer) (2) k\add (?) kətaik (Mon) two (what is the difference to the previous?) babu ba (Mon), pii (Khmer) bar (Sanzali), ber (Chewong) we yiŋ yəəŋ (Khmer) who neʔebe ɲɛ̀h-kòh (Mon) neak naa (Khmer) yellow dama tmaga (Chewong) daik mìt Now this is your best data in all its glory. You compared Shabo with no less than four languages, certainly finding a few similarities. Frankly, if any of these comparisons indeed strike you as "obvious" cognates (they shouldn't), you certainly need to accept my above comparisons as cognates, as they are as good, if not even better - but of course, you shouldn't. Look, this is not linguistics, and that is precisely why you had to go to Virtus to get it published - for a hefty sum. This is where I stop this engagement, because every next step is going to get more embarrassing, believe me. Landroving Linguist (talk) 21:13, 15 February 2021 (UTC) The Benny Hill show goes on. 1) You: "you had to go to Virtus to get it published - for a hefty sum". My salary as a professor (after taxes) is about 17,000 hryvnia per month. 1 dollar = 27 hryvnia (in terms of purchasing power - about 7 hryvnia). The whole article in Virtus journal, together with the paper copy sent by mail, cost me 510 hryvnia. This is a normal scientific journal and standart cost for ukrainian scientific journals. This amount would be ridiculous, even if my professorial salary was the main income of my family. But this, fortunately, is not so :) There is a large article about me in the Ukrainian Wikipedia: https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Рассоха_Ігор_Миколайович 2) You: "this is not what you presented in your article". - Virtus, p. 62: "Shabo: Santali – 18, Chewong – 24, Mon – 24, Vietnamese – 20, Khmer – 26; Santali: Chewong – 25, Mon – 21, Vietnamese – 21, Khmer – 17; Chewong: Mon – 27, Vietnamese – 24, Khmer – 28; Mon: Vietnamese – 26, Khmer – 33; Vietnamese: Khmer – 28. The most obvious Shabo/Austro-Asiatic examples:..." 3) You: "this is your best data in all its glory". - Yes, this is the best, most obvious, but NOT FULL data. Do you want the full data? - OK: Similarities among 100 Shabo words: 1) “all” haɓa – krup (Khmer), 2) “ashes, ash” punk'wa – pətɔiŋ (Mon), pahi (Santali), 3) “bark (of a tree)” ork'an – hənok (Mon), 4) “belly” ɓeːše - pʊəh (Khmer), pɜ̀ŋ (Mon), 5) “big” mat - maraṇ (Santali), 6) “bite” kaw – kap (Chewong), kham (Khmer), 7) “bite” (2) t\a - dot (Vietnamese), 8) “black” c'inii(ŋ/n) – səʔɛ̃ŋ (Chewong), 9) “breast” duh – tɔh (Mon), dɑh (Khmer), 10) “breast” (2) kowan - koṛam (Santali), 11) “burn” gota - đot chay (Vietnamese), 12)“claw, nail ” ʃeŋgi – chang (Vietnamese), sanem (Mon), 13) “claw, nail (2)” cofolkoh – skoʔ (Chewong), 14) “cloud” gup\o – pɔpɔɔk (Khmer), 15) “come” amo - mɔɔk (Khmer), ma (Santali), 16) “die” k'o - qua đơi (Vietnamese), gujuk' (Santali), 17) “dog” kaʔal – klɜ (Mon), 18) “dog (2)” kaan – ʔɛ̃ŋ (Chewong), 19) “drink” woh – uong (Vietnamese), 20) “ear” k'iti – kəto (Mon), 21) “fat (noun)” sʔilimaŋ – klɔiŋ (Mon), 22) “feather” c'eka - sok (Mon), sɔk (Chewong), 23) “fish” c'aŋa - con ca (Vietnamese), 24) “fly” appɨr – kapɔy (Chewong), pɔ (Mon), bay (Vietnamese), 25) “give” hanno - kɒ (Mon), ʔak (Chewong), ʔaoy (Khmer), 26) “good” ɗanka – thien (Vietnamese), 27) “hair” c'eeka – sok (Mon), sɔk (Chewong), sɑk (Khmer), 28) “hand” eːtta – ti (Santali), toa (Mon), tay (Vietnamese), day (Khmer), 29) “head” k'oyi - kuy (Chewong), 30) “heart” t\undet - beh dooŋ (Khmer), tim (Vietnamese), 31) “horn” k\are - krɛ̀aŋ (Mon), 32) “I” tiŋ – toi (Vietnamese), ʔiŋ (Chewong), iń (Santali), 33) “kill” hátip – həcɒt (Mon), go̲c' (Santali), 34) “knee” hotu – ktoŋ (Chewong), 35) “know” ɗɛ – tɛm (Mon), baḍae (Santali), 36) “leaf” c'aam - la cay (Vietnamese), sakam (Santali), 37) “long” ɗama - dai (Vietnamese), 38) “man (adult male)” upa – boʔrɑh (Khmer), 39) “meat” hà – ʔɑy (Chewong), 40) “moon” kaʃip - kcɛʔ (Chewong), 41) “mouth” kaw - hɑɲ (Chewong), ʔaoh (Khmer), 42) “neck” ʃonna(se) - cai co (Vietnamese), 43) “night” dippo - tối (Vietnamese), yup (Khmer), 44) “not” ˗be – ba (Santali), 45) “person” man - mɔnuh (Khmer), 46) “person” (2) upʰa - biʔ (Chewong), 47) “road” homa – ho̲r (Santali), 48) “round” mohuŋgul – muul (Khmer), 49) “say” kimmo – hɒm (Mon), 50) “say” (2) sum – noi chuyen (Vietnamese), 51) “say” (3) apʰo – phedrao (Santali), 52) “see” yinno - yow (Chewong), kʰəəɲ (Khmer), 53) “seed” walkun - həne (Mon), hat giong (Vietnamese), kyaŋ (Chewong), 54) “sit” manka – ʔɑŋkuy (Khmer), ŋɔk (Chewong), nģoi (Vietnamese), 55) “sleep” tolʔam – toik (Mon), ʔɑm (Chewong), 56) “small” hɛdeb – huḍiń (Santali), 57) “smoke” ciimbi – siyay (Chewong), 58) “stay” hitta – hətao (Mon), 59) “stone” manna – mɔˀ (Mon), tmɑɑ (Khmer), 60) “tail” ʃooʃa / ʃundum - cai đuoi (Vietnamese), 61) “that” ŋa - ona (Santali), nũʔ (Chewong), nuh (Khmer), 62) “this” ŋaŋam / ney – nɔˀ (Mon), cai nay (Vietnamese), nui (Santali), nih (Khmer), 63) “thou” sitalak - louk (Khmer), chi (Vietnamese), 64) “tongue (organ)” handa - ʔɑndaat (Khmer), 65) “tongue (organ)” (2) k\add – kətaik (Mon), 66) “two” babu – ba (Mon), pii (Khmer), bar (Santali), ber (Chewong), 67) “we” yiŋ – yəəŋ (Khmer), 68) “we” (2) ann˗kak – hɛʔ (Chewong), 69) “white” ɗaːča – sada (Santali), sɑɑ (Khmer), 70) “who” naafe / neʔebe – ɲɛ̀h-kòh (Mon), neak naa (Khmer), 71) “woman” koto - koŋ (Chewong), 72) “yellow” dama – tmagaʔ (Chewong), daik mìt (Mon). Santali: 1) “all” sanam – sɒm (Mon), ca (Vietnamese), 2) “bark (of a tree)” baklalc – sɑmbɑɑk (Khmer), 3) “belly” lạc' – ʔac (Chewong), 4) “big” maraṇ – mnɨ̃ʔ (Chewong), 5) “bird” sim – həcem (Mon), chim (Khmer), 6) “black” he̲nde̲ - səʔɛ̃ŋ (Chewong), đen (Vietnamese), 7) “blood” mãyãm - mhə̃m (Chewong), mau (Vietnamese), 8) “bone” jaṇ – jəʔeŋ (Chewong), 9) “burn” jəʔ – je̲re̲t' (Chewong), 10) “cold” reaṛ – ret (Vietnamese), 11) “come” dela - təs (Chewong), đen (Vietnamese), 12) “die” gujuk' - qua đơi (Vietnamese), taay (Khmer), 13) “earth” o̲t – tɔeˀ (Mon), đat (Vietnamese), dəy (Khmer), tɛʔ (Chewong), 14) “eye” me̲t' - mɛ̃t (Chewong), mòt (Mon), mat (Vietnamese), 15) “fish” hako - kiəʔ (Chewong), kaˀ (Mon), 16) “give” de̲ - đưa cho (Vietnamese), 17) “full” bi – bək (Chewong); pɔiŋ (Mon), pɨɲ (Khmer), 18) “good” bhage - bayek (Chewong), 19) “hand” ti - toa (Mon), tay (Vietnamese), day (Khmer), 20) “hear” ańjo̲m - mòiŋ (Mon), 21) “I” iń – ʔiŋ (Chewong), 22) “kill” go̲c' – həcɒt (Mon), 23) “know” baḍae – biet (Vietnamese), 24) “leaf” sakam – slǝk (Khmer), 25) “long” jeleń – klòiŋ (Mon), 26) “louse” eicrii se - cɛʔ (Chewong), coa (Mon), cay (Khmer), 27) “mouth” moca - mom (Vietnamese), moat (Khmer), 28) “neck” ho̲ṭo̲k' - kɔˀ (Mon), kɑɑ (Khmer), 29) 61. nose* mũ – mɔ̃h (Chewong), mùh (Mon), mũi (Vietnamese), 30) “one” mit' - mot (Vietnamese), 31) “root” re̲he̲t' - rɜ̀h (Mon), re cay (Vietnamese), rɨh (Khmer), 32) “sand” gitil - hətɔe (Mon), 33) “say” phedrao - bət (Chewong), 34) “seed” itạ - tinh dich (Vietnamese), 35) “skin” harta – hoʔ (Chewong), 36) “small” kạṭic' – tooc (Khmer), 37) “stay” teṇgo – đưnģ (Vietnamese), 38) “star” ipil – bintaŋ (Chewong), 39) “tail” caṇḍbo̲l - cai đuoi (Vietnamese), 40) “that” uni - nũʔ (Chewong), nuh (Khmer), 41) “this” nui – nɔˀ (Mon), nih (Khmer), 42) “tongue (organ)” alaṇ - latek (Chewong), 43) “tree” dare - daəm (Khmer), 44) “two” bar – ber (Chewong), ba (Mon), 45) “walk” dãṛã - đi lai (Vietnamese), daə (Khmer), 46) “water” dak' - tɑm (Chewong), daik (Mon), tɨk (Khmer), 47) “we” abo - poi (Mon), 48) “what” oka poṇḍ – puteh (Chewong), pùˀ (Mon), 49) “white” sada - sɑɑ (Khmer), 50) “thou” am - mɨ̃ʔ (Chewong), may (Vietnamese). Chewong – 25, Mon – 21, Vietnamese – 21, Khmer – 17 And so on. Especially for you (otherwise you obviously don't know): for professional linguists, the amount of processed and published material is at least five to one. 4) You: "This is where I stop this engagement, because every next step is going to get more embarrassing, believe me." I wonder if you, or at least some of your colleagues, don’t feel a little ashamed? Even embarrassing? Horhius555 (talk) 09:05, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Horhius555

Regards Minilik Articles

Hi Landroving Linguist, you mentioned me on the minilik article as I drop the same "junk all over the pages of Wikipedia, repeatedly". if you look my edit I never drop any information not having or attributed to a known origin without source and relevant to the article page. The following contents already existed before me along time ago. you can check history of edit. I reverted back because of someone attempted to remove content. you reverted again claiming as I dropped! Please don't rash to judge me as I dropped here without even checked who exactly dropped!

"Parallelism to early European colonial extraction

The neftenya exploitation system that was instaured by emperor Menelik II in Ethiopia’s peripheral lands, with its forced colonial extraction and massacres, was most comparable to the system installed by Belgian king Leopold II in the Congo Free State. This went to the extent that Leopold II proposed a joint venture to Menelik II, for the exploitation of the resources of south Ethiopia. In the late 19th century, Ruppert Recking, a German journalist travelled to Ethiopia on behalf of king Leopold. They hoped to establish a joint venture for the exploitation of Kaffa, with the main shares owned by Leopold and Menelik. Leopold had understood how Menilek generated income from South Ethiopia. The colonial administration in the Congo gave troops to Recking, with a Zanzibarese Arab as his assistant. After crossing central Africa and reaching Kaffa, Recking observed that the Ethiopian emperor was already controlling the area. Menelik was not amused by Leopold’s proposal – he did not want to share his colony. Recking left, but the accompanying Hausa mercenary soldiers remained in Kaffa. An indirect confirmation of this poorly known venture is the presence of descendants of Hausa speaking settlers in Kaffa."

MfactDr (talk) 22:31, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I attributed this to you - I didn't check who placed it in the article - I should have guessed that you are probable not able to peruse a German-language source. I did notice that you restored it a couple of times after others removed it for good reasons, and after I removed it from a different page (I think the Neftenya page), for the same good reasons. And let me tell you, you do have the habit of spreading stuff all over Wikipedia, once it is established on just one page, even if it has little to no bearing on the matter at hand. And yes, in this particular case, the source is exceedingly untrustworthy, and drawing parallels between Leo's regime in Kongo and Melelik's rule in Ethiopia is entirely original research. You should know that by now.

Sorry also for my sharp words in the edit summary - I went too far with that, shouldn't use the word 'junk'. It feels that I spend a good chunk of my little time cleaning up after your edits lately, with the increasing feeling that every day you are itching to get a little bit more Oromo nationalist POV into the pages of Wikipedia, gaming the system to see how much of it will make it through. Please stop doing that. Over the past two years you have become an experienced editor, and the quality of your edits has improved, with lots of valuable contributions on your part. This also means that by now you know the rules and also what is and what is not a good source. Again the rule of thumb for you should be: Do you want to include this because it makes Oromo look great and everyone else in Ethiopia look bad? Then you really shouldn't include it without being absolutely sure about the quality of the source, and you absolutely shouldn't include it in a way that brings articles out of balance that are really about something else. Okay, ranted enough, you get my drift. Landroving Linguist (talk) 07:55, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

References

The existence of Amhara

My answer to your statement I definetly see your point, but this article is about a ethnic group and not about the people themselves. The difference is that the ethnic group identify with this certain group, yet there are some parts claiming people who lived before 1991 as part of this certain ethnic group, which can't be true, if I am not missunderstood. You can correct me, if you want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whatsnotclear (talk • contribs) 22:12, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

You write: "this article is about an ethnic group and not about the people themselves." Well, is it not, when the page is called "Amhara people"? No-one doubts that the Amhara people as a describable group have been existence for a very long time. What is in doubt is, for that same period of time, the existence of a national identity, as opposed to the identity "Ethiopian", according to the sources cited on that page. Try not to read too much into what these sources say. Landroving Linguist (talk) 07:47, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer! I think, it is better to say that I am questioning the existence in the modern (18th-20th century) and in the medieval period of time. If you look at medieval or modern Ethiopian history, how would you descibe someone of the "Amhara people" when this person doesn't identify with this group of people? I see your point to say that this group of people have the same historical root, but in this case there is not a clear distinction beetween the "Amhara people" and other people who inhabted this region, and if we consider something like assimilation, this argument isn't really valid. The headline says "Amhara people" but reading this article one would notice that this is about an ethnic group instead of a group of people. Again,you can correct me or ask me something, if I am missunderstood.

Well, your biggest misunderstanding is that the article as such is not making any claims, but reports on the claims that various scholars and thought leaders have made on that point. If reputable people noted an Amhara ethnicity in medieval and modern times, we report this. If others reject the idea, we report this, too. If these opinions contradict each other, we note that and report it. It is not the task of Wikipedia to decide academic disputes, just to report on them. I think this is what the page does. Landroving Linguist (talk) 10:09, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

But if we look for example at the section "Notable Amharas" a lot of the claims are not well sourced or even sourced at all. This section almost exlusively contains people from the medieval or modern periods of time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8070:D82:4900:8CD8:B3F1:A980:2521 (talk) 10:18, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

That section is a list of links to pages that are hopefully well-sourced in themselves. If you notice people that really are not ethnic Amharas (and their own page does not provide any sources to that effect), you are free to take them off this list, stating the reason in the edit summary. Landroving Linguist (talk) 22:00, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

naftenya article under disruptive editing

Hi Landroving Linguist, hope you doing well, I have come across naftenya page is been not edited in in good faith all of us expected to do. the user :HOA101 continue adding unsourced contents and copy existing source claimed as sourced to the naftenya page. Here are some cases of recent additions of information and distorted existing source or absent from the sources:

• 1. [3]
• 2.[4]
• 3.[5]
• 4.[6]
• 5.copy existing source from first paragraph

Please see the diff. Thanks MfactDr (talk)

• Stop lying, I have cited the source () of the information. I am using a preexisting source cited in another part of these articles because the source also contains information on this specific issue as well. See Amhara Political-Predominance Era vs. Shewan (Shewan Neftenya) Political-Predominance Era for more information on this discussion. HOA101 (talk) 15:19, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

As I am not particularly interested in editing pages on Ethiopian politics, I had removed that article from my watchlist in the hope that things have settled down somewhat. As for the matter at hand, I agree with user:HOA101 that their edits, although somewhat messy, are sufficiently sourced, and I don't share your opinion, user:MfactDr, that they are editing in bad faith. To both of you I really want to give the advice that you should only put things into the text that are clearly said by the cited sources. In the same way, you should not throw out sourced material just because you don't like what it says. Apply good judgment regarding what constitutes a reliable source (independently from your agreement with that source). Additionally, you should abstain from editing topics where your judgement is apparently clouded by strong nationalist sentiments, which probably is the case for both of you. Edit wars like the one you performed over the last few days are the stuff that gets people blocked from editing, so you should really tone things down, and stop accusing other editors from lying or bad faith when really you don't have much evidence pointing that way. Landroving Linguist (talk) 16:10, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

References

Why you revert my edit in Addis Ababa

The correct reason is Addis Ababa is the capital and largest city in Ethiopia, nor it is only for Oromia Region. Can you please discuss or reverse my edit. The Supermind (talk) 21:24, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Hi - in this revert, you labelled the edit as vandalism. I see an editor changing a figure while citing a source - it might be misguided, but I can't see why you assume it's vandalism, unless there's a backstory I'm unaware of? Thanks for any light you can shed. Girth Summit _(blether) 09:09, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, there is a backstory to it. The user has done this edit several times, got warned for it, blocked for it, and his last block just ended, and he is back at it again. LandLing 09:12, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

@Girth Summit, it looks like I need to correct myself. They did not get blocked (thought of another editor there), but the behavior has been addressed several times before. LandLing 09:16, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

You may want to look at this, this and this edit. With this edit I explained the matter to them in May 2021. LandLing 09:24, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, thanks - I'll take a look later and try to get a handle on what's going on. Girth Summit _(blether) 09:43, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

July 2021

Your recent editing history at Oromia shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that disagreement.MfactDr (talk) 08:15, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

MfactDr, thanks for the notification. Yes, things are escalating now, and I'm no longer willing to protect you, as I did here. I have warned you many times to change your editing behavior. LandLing 08:22, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

LandLing, please go to WP:ANI. I have opened a new case about MfactDr behavioral edits in Oromia districts and give comment for the issue please. Courtesy The Supermind (talk) 13:20, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

African language edits

Hi, I saw that you deleted several of my language edits of African languages stating that they were linked to "inappropriate websites", I would like to know how the website is inappropriate since the language edits are indeed correct and the website is not inappropriate. -tolaakin

Tolaakin, I explained it in the edit summaries - what you did is linkspam, spreading a link to always the same website across dozens of language pages that contains very little and very unencyclopaedic content on the language in question. What makes it even more problematic is that this website is obviously hosted by yourself. LandLing 20:07, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

BTW, you changed the author's (your) name in the source from Tola to Omotola, but the name is not shown as such in the source. We need to go by how the name is given in the source. And another BTW: you can sign your contributions on a talk page by writing four tilde characters ⟨~⟩ in a row. Your user name will then be inserted automatically. Third BTW: good idea to get yourself a user account - well done! That makes the discussion with you now much easier! LandLing 20:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Oromia page

Hi, MfactDr is very defiant at the page of Oromia by introducing unreliable sources such as [7] and [8]. Both websites by far suspicious to WP:OR and reliability and the whole references should be reviewed. I discussed at its talk page and tagged {{review}}, but MfactDr overwhelmedly insisted that the first one is reliable sources and Addis Ababa is declared as Finfinne by the Ethiopian government, although the site indicate Oromia Supreme Court. In short, this user actively control the page and resists to interfere the others, which sounded like "This page is mine". I have opened discussion at WP:WikiProject Ethiopia. The page currently blocked due to war with him and I'm glad to involve with the discussion. Regards. The Supermind (talk) 17:38, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

The Supermind, what is your issue with the supreme court source? This is an official government source stating that the city is officially called Finfine (in a similar spelling) by the Oromia Region. There is no original research in this. Neither MfactDr nor Oromia Supreme court claim that everyone needs to call the city that. Bilingual place names are a normal feature in many countries. Of course MfactDr could be equally tolerant recognizing that place names such as Nazret and Zway are equally in use by other Ethiopians, but I have not known him for being able to view an issue from another side but his own. Be that as it may, he is right in this point. LandLing 22:01, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

I need the recent federal government source not the archive. Its proclamation of Addis Ababa and Finfinne. This is not federal government source. Why you're aiding him to build WP:SOAP at the page. This page is all for Wikipedians, not for MfactDr. He deleted my new good sources [9] and avoiding any edit except him. Do you support this? The Supermind (talk) 07:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

If he have right to adding content, I will continue to add Sheger. That good place for WP:Be Bold. The Supermind (talk) 07:41, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi LandLing! I guess you have seen the discussion at Talk:Oromia#Protected_edit_request_on_23_August_2021. Can you help me (being a genuine outsider to the area) to understand the prevalence and usage of Sheger? There is nothing I could find about it in a not-so-quick search, except for a passing mention here:[10] (p. 114), and several references to the park, bus service, beautifying project and radio station using the term. Is it a factionalist-loaded name, is it an affectionate moniker, or...?

In spite of my current ignorance, I cannot escape the impression that the request (apart from its formal flaws) is just a frivolous reaction to the inclusion of the loaded, but undeniably more relevant and more visible term Finfinne. –Austronesier (talk) 10:08, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Austronesier, no, I haven't noticed that discussion, as I had removed that (and a number of other pages) from my watchlist in the interest of my mental hygiene. For now I have given up on these pages, as they have turned into battlegrounds and my recent attempts to do something about that have been ignored by the community. Honestly, I only ever encountered the name Sheger in the bus service name - which makes me doubt that it is factionalist-loaded. Then again, Supermind freely admits right above your lines here that he pursues that matter to make a point, which in itself should be actionable, if anyone bothers to go after this. LandLing 12:14, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your input! I take this as anecdotical evidence for the low significance of the term. As for your frustration, I can understand it. I have made similar experiences with reporting NOTHERE-editors, reports that slowly trickled up in the thread until attaining final rest in the archive. I mean, even the noisy ones (like the pile-on about @Andrew Lancaster) mostly end up as storms in the teacup. Sad as it is, I just resort to Niebuhr's prayer in the end. (Or to the parable of Tünnes and the Schutzblech: "Hey, admin, I want to inform you about disruptive editing!" "Sorry, talk later, I have to deal with disruptive editing!")

Occasionally, I still look into the CIR-fest around Horn of Africa pages and throw in my 2cts. Sorry that I didn't have the energy to chime it with your report. –Austronesier (talk) 13:58, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Austronesier, thanks for your understanding! I hope there will be times again when I play a more active role - these days I'm working against a deadline (end of this month), and I can imagine that afterwards I'll find life boring enough to get back into cleaning up the Horn-of-Africa pages. And thanks for the reminder of Niebuhr's prayer - that's ecactly what's needed. LandLing 19:47, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh, if you have some leisure next month, I might get in touch with you off-wiki with a few questions about Majang... –Austronesier (talk) 20:49, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

I'd be tickled pink! Try after September 12, as I will be on vacation first. LandLing 15:40, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

West Semitic

I edited the Ethiopian Semitic pages and labeled them as West Semitic because I noticed in the English language article lede it is considered a “West Germanic language.” The Germanic branch has three divisions North Germanic, West Germanic, and East Germanic. West Germanic then divides into North Sea Germanic and etc. It is like calling English a North Sea Germanic or Ingvaeonic language, rather then a West Germanic language, in my opinion. Now Semitic is divided into two divisions West Semitic and East Semitic. Hebrew, Arabic, Amharic and etc all belong to the West Semitic branch. Akkadian belongs and is depicted as East Semitic. So why does a language like Amharic have to be called “Ethiopian Semitic.” I am not denying that it is not Ethiopian Semitic, however I just thought it would make more sense to call it a West Semitic language, instead of an Ethiopian Semitic language. Rogeman123 (talk) 04:59, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Rogeman123, West Semitic is not a good idea, because all living Semitic languages belong to that group, and therefore the label is not helping in distinguishing Amharic or Tigrinya from other Semitic languages in a helpful way. The lede is the place that should give the reader a quick overview over the topic of the article, and Ethiopian Semitic helps with classifying these languages much more than basically saying that they are Semitic. LandLing 10:03, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

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You should make a correction on the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oromo_language

Hi Adnreas, you wrote that 'Oromo, historically also called Galla.' Here, 'Galla' means an animal from the lake, which is an insult and a misrepresentation of the population. It appears that you may have copied and pasted without investigating what the haters wrote a century ago. I strongly recommend removing the reference that mentions 'Galla' unless you want to perpetuate an insult to the Oromo people even today. Zealber (talk) 17:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Zealber Please read the discussion on the talk page of Oromo language on that question - this has been discussed at length. In a nutshell, although the historic name is doubtlessly and justifiably seen as an insult nowadays, it needs to be mentioned in order to comply with the rules of Wikipedia. LandLing 22:57, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

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