User talk:Holiday56/Archive 14

Genre

Heya, I saw your edit correction here at The Amazing World of Gumball, where you state in your summary that Animation is not a formal genre classification. In the description for the Genre parameter at Template:infobox television, editors are instructed to refer to List of genres#Film and television genres for examples of appropriate genres. That article lists Animation as a main genre (along with Comedy, Horror, Erotica, etc). If I've provided a reliable independent source (RottenTomatoes) to support the addition, and even unreliable sources (Amazon.com, IMDb) describe the series "genre" as Comedy, Animation, I'm interested in understanding the justification for why it is not a "formal" genre in your eyes, and I mean that in a respectful way, not a combative one. Editors can only rely on the guidance they've been expressly given, and the List of Genres article is the only guidance we're expressly given. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:09, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

My removal of "animation" from the genre field, I'll admit, stems mostly from the fact that from the animated series articles I've seen—and I don't mean to bring up WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS here—I've rarely seen "animation" being explicitly listed as a genre in the infobox. At most I've seen the term being used in the lead, i.e. "[name of show] is an animated comedy...", or in the format field of the infobox, i.e. "Animated series". I actually took a look at some GA/FA animated series articles before I carried out the edit, and I failed to find any examples where "animation" was listed as a genre; the listed genres seem to pertain more to terms such as comedy, drama, science fiction, fantasy, etc.

If I've read it correctly, the list of genres article lists animation as a sub-sectioned format, and not as a formal genre classification ("Genres are listed under the sub-sectioned formats"), and from the way I've read the infobox documentation the genres article serves as more of a list of examples for editors rather than an enforced guideline of genres to choose from. I also don't mean to be combative here, and I hope you can see where I'm coming from regarding my edit. Thanks, Holiday56 (talk) 06:58, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the friendly reply! I think I understand exactly where you are coming from and agree with you in the grander scheme, (which I will address in a few sentences), but I still do respectfully disagree in the narrow scheme. The "Comedy" subsection of the List of Genres is as prominent a classification as the "Animation" subsection in that article. Horror is bolded and illuminated just as Animation is. That may be a fault in need of addressing, but that is the status quo right now. That said, I would propose that we try to find a middle ground here, because "Comedy, animation, cartoon series" seems to me a reasonable attribution of genre for that show, given the very vague instructions. (And clearly we can both see that this type of grouping looks a lot like a taxonomy, identifying the series broadly as Comedy, presented through the medium of Animation, in the style/format of a cartoon series.) There are other fundamental problems with the infobox, which is why I started a discussion here where I attempt to address the problems with the poorly-defined, antiquated "format" parameter. In an ideal world, I think there should be a clear taxonomy for TV. Yes, maybe genre SHOULD (as you propose) be broader: Comedy, Horror, Suspense, Drama, Reality, and maybe "Animation" doesn't quite fit as a broad classification, like you say, because animation could be a MEDIUM for comedy, or horror, or suspense. So maybe there should be clear sub-classes for Comedy>Animation or Drama>Soap opera or Drama>Soap opera>Daily series. Anyhow, until we get to the ideal, I would like to propose that we flesh out the genre field of Gumball a little bit to describe the series based on the current guidelines, which may hopefully dissuade the kiddos from porking it out with ridiculous "black comedy", "poop humor" tags. At least maybe we can both agree that no form of humor-style-interpretation" (slapstick, surreal, gross-out) should exist here unless sourced? In the interim, if you wanna join me on a (potentially painful) campaign to re-figure the status quo, I'd be happy to get your input! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:53, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Radio releases

Hey Holiday56, I have learned of a few US radio sites such as Frequency and the BDS Radio charts because of your edits to hip hop articles, which has really helped me add radio impacts/service dates to articles and finding single releases, that would else have gone unnoticed and not reflected on the various articles. I was wondering how the BDSRadio charts work and if it is possible to find a solid date or even estimated time period for any of them. An example would be "Bound 2" is currently on 28 Urban stations in the US, but I did not see a reported impact date on AllAccess or Frequency. I noticed a long time ago that just searching google for radio releases does not help anything. STATic message me! 04:12, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes it did, and yeah "Black Skinhead" was exactly what I was thinking of, it never appeared anywhere. Maybe the sites have something against Kanye West aha. But I noticed you found a US Urban release date for "Used 2", did you search Frequency's archives or something? Because I have not been able to find a way to search the archives, and only going by the "featured music" section of their main page. STATic message me! 17:16, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

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Weird Al discography

Are you planning on taking that page to FAN? If so, I think it deserves it! You've really spiffed it up!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 18:16, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I'll try to start up the FL nomination as soon as possible. Thanks! Holiday56 (talk) 15:38, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

R&B/Hip-Hop notation

You've obviously seen this already. Do you think the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart (and the equivalent albums chart) needs a new notation on discography pages? Personally, I think that as most users are aware of the current notation, a different one would only be needed if both the R&B Songs and Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs charts are used on the same page: otherwise, if the user was really curious to the identity of the chart, they could follow the wikilink. Besides, some notations (such as US Pop or US Dance) are used for similarly named charts on different discographies already. However, I'm curious for your opinion, so I can try and establish some sort of consensus on the issue. I Am Rufus • Conversation is a beautiful thing. 18:19, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm gonna chime in and say that a new notation is not necessary, unless, of course, both of those charts are used in the singles table, as you mentioned. Infex (talk) 05:13, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to also chime in, but might as well since I was involved. I do think that it needs have the proper change and disambiguation since we now have the Hot R&B Songs and Top R&B Albums charts, we would not want anyone confused in what chart it charted on. Since I assume most readers just scroll through discographies, and not check every wikilink. This is especially confusing, since in most hip hop discographies have the Hot Rap Songs chart positions right after the R&B/HH chart, at least with the UK is actually referred to as the R&B chart, when its just a general urban chart. Not really sure why we always referred to it as just an R&B chart. STATic message me! 06:20, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Maybe this is just because I've already gotten used to using the "US R&B" notation, but I do think I prefer the old notation and agree with Rufus and Infex that the "/HH" notation isn't particularly necessary unless both the R&B/Hip-Hop Songs and the R&B Songs charts are being used in the same article. I've also noticed that the extra "/HH" makes the column width look rather disproportionate to the other charts (see Kendrick Lamar discography for example). Still, I can definitely see where STATic's coming from and I'm open to change if proper consensus can be established. Holiday56 (talk) 08:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

URGENT VANDALISM TO FLO RIDA WIKI PAGE

Hello, Some vandalist removed all mentions of FLO RIDA song for charity BOOTY ON THE FLOOR he did with Marc Mysterio. Can this edit be reverted as it was highly publicized and well sourced.

Can you please go back to a previous version of FLO RIDA page from august 2013 and re-add these well sourced info on the song and release? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.107.8.27 (talk) 20:46, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

A favor...

Hey, I have a favor to ask. I don't know if you watch the show Adventure Time, but I've been working on getting the episode list up to FL. Is there anyway you could pop on over to the page and vote/comment etc? I'm having a hard time getting anyone to comment on it, and I based it off of similar lists, like the one you made for Regular Show. Thanks!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 16:27, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

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songs by MCYRUS

Can you at list put the album appareances a parte from the others? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.126.112.91 (talk) 03:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd suggest adding your suggestion to the article's talk page—it's best not to make potentially controversial changes without consensus. Cheers, Holiday56 (talk) 04:20, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

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ARTPOP Consensus

@Holiday56: Just to make sure you understand the situation fully, here are the nine sources I've listed that explicitly state that the album received generally positive reviews: DigitalSpy, Metacritic's weighted consensus of generally favorable, The Huffington Post, Entertainmentwise, YahooMusic, The Southern Digest, Pride Publishing Group, Off the Shelf, Street Insider. STATic has been engaged in this debate for months and has admitted twice that he dislikes Lady Gaga and even made fun of her and her fans, which obviously constitutes WP:Bias. Homeostasis has previously been blocked from editing due to his unprofessional behavior on Gaga pages and has recently admitted that he's been accused numerous times of bias against the artist in question. This has been a ridiculous process that had no business lasting as long as it did, but as you can see, the consensus is obviously generally positive, although the response was more ambivalent than her previous work. Reece Leonard (talk) 00:18, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd prefer to stay out of a full-scale dispute here, so I'd like to refrain from making comments about any other users involved with the issue. My general take on the reception is that while there are certainly a number of sources which describe a generally positive critical reaction (i.e. the ones you mentioned), there are also a good number of sources which describe a mixed (or even negative, in some cases) reception (Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Gate, Gigwise, Consequence of Sound, the Christgau article I mentioned on the talk page, etc.). I'll simply leave it at that for now, though I'm certainly open to hearing more from both sides. Holiday56 (talk) 14:33, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

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List of Billboard Hot 100 top 10 singles in 1987 (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

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March 2014

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Kanye

Since you pushed Kanye West discography to Featured List status, thought you might be interested in this GT nom. igordebraga ≠ 02:33, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Bruno Mars discography

Thak you for updating the videos and the number of singles. Do you have any other source besides the amazon link for the "Can't Come Back to Me" song? Not saying it isn't reliable, however anyone can upload their own songs, doesn't mean it is a single. That's my only doubt. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:07, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

• • Edit:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AP6XSU8/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk12. The same song is used in Layzie Bone's group, Bone Thugs & Harmony, in their greatest hits album.

Amazon link is all I can find right now. I'll try to look for more, though I don't see reason to believe that the Amazon source is questionable; Layzie Bone and Bone Thugs-n-Harmony are pretty established artists, and the song is licensed to their official Mo Thugs label on the download page. Also, keep up with the good work on these Mars-related articles. Cheers! Holiday56 (talk) 15:14, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for it. I will try to keep. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 16:35, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

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Soliciting comment...

Hi! Would you care to review or comment at my FA nomination for the article Marquee Moon, an article about a rock music album? Information on reviewing an FA nomination's criteria is available at WP:FACR. If not, feel free to ignore this message. Cheers! Dan56 (talk) 01:43, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

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Talkback

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Regular Show production codes

Hey, man. I got the codes from http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First. If you type in "Regular Show", the episodes will each have an episode number, which corresponds to the suffix of the production code. I don't know how to cite this site though. Any ideas? Paradox295 (talk) 03:58, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Is streaming a single format?

Thought you might be interested in weighing in on this dicussion. — Status (talk · contribs) 06:31, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

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Peer review

Could you perhaps leave some input here? Snuggums (talk • contributions) 22:41, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

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Arabella

This thing with radio singles was discussed multiple times at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs. I don't have the time to look for paricular discussions now, but you can ask other members of the WikiProject Songs for an opinion, if you want to. BTW, it's a similar situation as with Coldplay's "Up in Flames" (no digital/physical release, only radio), while the main difference between "Up in Flames" and "Charlie Brown" was that the latter was released to radio stations in the US. Plus radio single redirects to promotional recording. — Mayast (talk) 11:53, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the taking the time to respond. From what I've picked up in the past radio releases have been well-established as an acceptable form of labeling a song as a single, which I'm perfectly fine with. The one thing I don't quite understand with regards to this whole situation is how United States radio releases in particular deserve some sort of special treatment over radio releases from other countries — just kinda strikes me as too US-centric in a way, and I'm doubtful of whether that particular detail has even been established as consensus, considering that I've seen many examples of radio-only singles only released in Australia, Europe, etc. listed with single infoboxes: "I Care", "Hummingbird Heartbeat", "New Day", "Jump", and "Worst Behavior", to name a few. Holiday56 (talk) 13:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I've been wondering the same thing, actually (why does US get special treatment), as I just realized earlier this week that UK releases to radio are quite easy to prove with Official Charts entries like this one. It might be a little harder with other countries, but maybe we could try another discussion with the entire WikiProject to establish some real guidelines regarding radio singles. I must say I'm a little puzzled to find that these songs you mentioned have been labeled as singles. Anyway, I've stumbled on this topic several times, and sometimes fought with other Editors over the single/promo labels. There is especially one Editor with a strong opinion on this topic, who even wrote a lengthy response to that WP:SINGLE? essay. That's why I think that some clearer guideline would be very useful. I guess I'm fine with leaving "Arabella" as a single, at least until there any other Editors with a different point of view. — Mayast (talk) 23:06, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

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Watterson's at List of The Amazing World of Gumball characters

See [1]. Tried dissuading the IP, but no response. TLA 3x ♭ → ♮ 22:40, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@The Last Arietta: — Thanks for the notification; redirected the articles again. If these edits persist then some administrative action may need to be taken towards these IPs. Holiday56 (talk) 04:22, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

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Radiohead discography

If, it's such a big deal to you, why didn't you do something sooner, it has been over a month since I made them edits and if there was anything wrong with them surely someone would of reverted before now, also a featured list is irrelevant as Wikipedia should come before Awards. Lukejordan02 (talk) 12:53, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

@Lukejordan02: Not everyone can keep track of an article 24/7. I revisited the article today, saw issue with its current state, and reverted it back to its previous revision. Simple as that. Vice versa, I don't think anybody saw a problem with inclusion of formats until your edits, and in fact the article passed as a featured list with the formats included. The mere fact that the article passed as a featured list implies that community consensus from Wikipedia's users has established it as one of Wikipedia's best lists (the top-tier status for lists on Wikipedia, so I have no idea why you contend that they're "irrelevant"), and as such it has to live up to the standards of current featured discographies.

I noticed that you see inaccuracies regarding the album formats; the addition of formats is generally considered a standard for featured list discographies. Take a look at any discography passed as a featured list within the last year (examples: 1, 2, 3) and you'll see that practically every single one of them has formats, so obviously they aren't as unneccessary as you contend they are, and they're also much closer in overall formatting to the previous revision than the current one. If there are inaccuracies there's no reason why they can't be changed accordingly instead of being removed altogether. I also don't see why you've removed the references for release dates, and the single listing for "The Bends", without explanation.

This probably isn't the best venue for this discussion, so please feel free to use the talk page if you'd like to discuss your edits and the exact reasons why you've reverted my edits, or just voice out any concerns you see with the article. Cheers, Holiday56 (talk) 13:19, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

I never meant that a featured list is irrelevant but rather worrying about wether or not a page is a featured list is as the page and how accurate it is should come before awards, I know most discography pages have formats but they was incomplete, I wasn't aware I removed any references but if I have they most certainly should be re-added and I apologise for any inconvenience. Lukejordan02 (talk) 13:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

@Lukejordan02: Definitely we can both agree that accuracy is the foremost concern with any article. The main thing I took issue with was the decision to remove the formats entirely, something only reserved for cases in which every single piece of data is incorrect, which I don't believe is the case here. If some of the formats are missing or incorrect then there's no reason we can't go over each case individually on the talk page and make the necessary changes manually.

Re. featured lists: it isn't so much that I'm putting top priority over the fact that it's a featured list (accuracy is, like you said, important as well), but just a desire to keep the article consistent and up-to-date with Wikipedia's ever-changing formatting requirements for discographies, to prevent it from being delisted. Individual year columns for albums, for example, haven't been used in quite a while because the inclusion of full release dates leaves them redundant, and generally album titles and release data take up separate columns. If you see any further concerns with this, by all means feel free to voice them.

If you weren't aware that your edits were inadvertently removing references, then certainly that's forgiven, and I take it that you'd have no issue with me restoring those to the article. Hopefully we can get some productive discussion out of this and reach some compromise regarding the edits. Holiday56 (talk) 13:44, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for understanding and discussing the matter with me, I most certainly do not have a problem with you re-adding the references, I honestly did not no I had removed any. When making the edits it was my first time using an iPad to make them which is quite different from the PC so that is probably how mistakes got made (not to make an excuse) and I apologise for any inconvenience caused. Regarding the formats I have no problem with them being re-added as long as they are correct and up to date. Lukejordan02 (talk) 14:11, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I have abbreviated some of the formats based on other pages such as CS for Cassette. Lukejordan02 (talk) 16:16, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Good call on the cassette abbreviation, though I think that "digital download" is more widely used than the shortened "DL" form. Holiday56 (talk) 09:20, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Yeah your right but some pages do use an abbreviated term, do you think it looks OK though (I mean people will not what it is they can click on the link to see if they don't.) Lukejordan02 (talk) 14:38, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014

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• "was the outcome of four different versions of it", with "all the best bits put together."<ref>{{cite journal |title=Rainbow Warriors |work=[[NME]] |location=London |date=8 December 2007 |author=
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