User talk:Church of the Creator

Welcome![edit]

Hello, Church of the Creator, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as User:Church of the Creator, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Tea House, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{help me}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Dwpaul ^Talk 01:17, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of User:Church of the Creator[edit]

A tag has been placed on your user page, User:Church of the Creator, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be blatant advertising which only promotes or publicises a company, product, group or service, and which is a violation of our policies regarding acceptable use of user pages; user pages are intended for active editors of Wikipedia to communicate with one another as part of the process of creating encyclopedic content, and should not be mistaken for free webhosting resources. Please read the guidelines on spam, the guidelines on user pages, and, especially, our FAQ for Organizations.

If you can indicate why the page is not blatant advertising, contest the deletion by clicking on the button that looks like this: Click here to contest this speedy deletion which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy deletion candidate). Doing so will take you to your user talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also edit this page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would help make it encyclopedic. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Dwpaul ^Talk 01:18, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked[edit]

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This account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia because your username, Church of the Creator, does not meet our username policy.

Your username is the only reason for this block. You are welcome to choose a new username (see below) and continue editing.

A username should not be promotional, related to a "real-world" group or organization, misleading, offensive or disruptive. Also, usernames may not end in the word "bot" unless the account is an approved bot account.

You are encouraged to choose a new account name that meets our policy guidelines and create the account yourself. Alternatively, if you have already made edits and you wish to keep your existing contributions under a new name, then you may request a change in username by:

Adding {{unblock-un|your new username here}} on your user talk page. You should be able to do this even though you are blocked, as you can usually still edit your own talk page. If not, you may wish to contact the blocking administrator by clicking on "E-mail this user" on their talk page.
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If you feel that you were blocked in error, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first.

DES ^(talk) 01:23, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock Request[edit]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Church of the Creator (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

all I want is for when people type in "Church of the Creator," they're NOT taken to the page for the White Supremacist group. Seriously, is that too much to ask? They've been legally estopped from using that name, so any directs should NOT lead there.

Decline reason:

Declined since user has now created the account User:Bohemian Gal, and therefore no name change is necessary. Yunshui 雲‍水 09:20, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Redirect[edit]

~~I have requested the deletion of the redirect Church of the Creator based on the prior discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Church of the Creator. Dwpaul ^Talk 01:39, 6 January 2014 (UTC)~~[reply]

On further review, it appears the redirect, in its current form, was a direct result of the 2010 discussion linked above, so it will require more detailed discussion and some evidence to change or delete the redirect. My nomination for deletion has been (correctly) reverted by another editor. Dwpaul ^Talk 01:45, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What evidence do you need? The entire court history is detailed here:

http://www.churchofthecreator.com/TM/TMindex.html

And just as a matter of curiosity, why is this white supremacist group deemed "worthy" of inclusion in Wikipedia, when the Church is not? Seriously, that makes no sense. Bohemian Gal (talk) 01:51, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

An article on the church can certainly be created by any individual (though not by an account set up specifically to represent and/or promote the church, see WP:COI among others), if it contains adequate citations of all of its claims to published, reliable sources and is not a user page written as an advertisement. Those, however, were not characteristics of the page that was just created and removed. Dwpaul ^Talk 01:58, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a high school teacher, and our policy is not to allow students to use Wikipedia as a reliable reference. All this nonsense just affirms the correctness of that decision.

Now, how about getting rid of the direct to the white supremacist group? That's really the issue. I only created the "Church" ID because I assumed I needed to show a connection to the organization to have "standing" to contest the search results.

Thanks.Bohemian Gal (talk) 02:04, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will again request that the redirect be speedily deleted, but on the basis that the name used in the redirect is asserted to be a trademark that refers to something other than the subject of the article to which it currently redirects. This may or may not be successful, and if not a more complicated (and relatively slow) process, discussed at WP:RfD, will need to be used to request its deletion. As you can see at that link, the RfD process is extensively backlogged. Dwpaul ^Talk 02:10, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As not completely unexpected, my request to speedily delete the redirect was declined[1] because this circumstance is not one of the reasons for speedy deletion detailed at WP:CSD. You will need to go the Redirects for Discussion route. You will find instructions on that page for submitting a redirect for discussion. In response to your earlier comment, I would do so using your primary user account. "A connection to [an] organization" with a direct stake in a Wikipedia article (or in this case a redirect) represents, in fact, a conflict of interest and thus why this account is blocked. Dwpaul ^Talk 02:46, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a "primary user account", and don't plan to pursue this. I'll leave it to the people who actually ARE connected to the Church. I'm not.

It's just truly a shame that you people operate like this. Shame on all of you.Bohemian Gal (talk) 03:03, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Then creating an account with a name that suggested you were connected with the church was doubly a bad idea. By "primary user account, I mean Bohemian Gal, versus the account you created for this specific purpose.

"We people" (not sure who that actually refers to; I'm just an editor, just like you) operate by requiring more than one person's input to a decision to remove content from the encyclopedia, through a process called consensus. A consensus was reached more than three years ago to create the redirect that is there now, after a discussion which appeared to reflect an understanding of the circumstances (as they were then known) on the part of those participating. It will require a process to arrive at a new consensus to delete it. If you don't pursue this matter, it will likely not be pursued. Dwpaul ^Talk 03:14, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I created that account name because I thought that's what I was supposed to do to create a page for that topic. Sorry I'm not an expert on Wikipedia like you are. I'm just a regular ol' person trying to right an egregious wrong. Maybe you (and the others who came to that "consensus") don't see anything wrong with the legal, copyrighted name of a Church being linked to the page for a white supremacist hate group, but it bothers the heck out of me -- and it's extremely disturbing to the members of the church. They're even less Wikipedia-savvy than I am, which is why I said I'd try to get it corrected.

And, no, I'm NOT an "editor" because if I was, I'd wouldn't be wasting time dealing with nonsense like this -- I'd just make the appropriate change(s) and move on.

Given that Wikipedia promotes itself as being editable by anyone, anywhere, anytime, then -- seriously -- one of you "editors" surely knows how to change the redirect and should just do it. No one is *removing* anything, just making a correction.

Yeah, I'm mad.Bohemian Gal (talk) 03:26, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I a) didn't say I didn't see anything wrong with the current situation, based on the information you've shared, b) wasn't part of the 2010 discussion, and c) have gone out of my way to help you. I might well have considered changing the redirect (yes, a much less tedious process, which you and/or I could technically do) to point somewhere more appropriate, if there was such a page, but it does not exist (and the user page you created would never have qualified as the destination for a redirect). If you and/or the people connected with the church feel so strongly about this, you or they should create an encyclopedic article (with citations, etc.) concerning the church so there is something to replace the redirect, not just complain that we can't change the encyclopedia based solely on your request to do so. Dwpaul ^Talk 03:35, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I was TRYING to create such a page, and it got deleted. Sorry that I'm not privy to the minute details about what makes an article acceptable or not -- again, I'm just a regular ol' person trying to right a wrong.

My very first question at the Help Desk was how to change the direct. Someone asked, "where should the direct go?", so I tried to create a page FOR the direct.

I put a request on the Redirect page, so whatever. You guys will make things right or you won't. There's nothing more I can do.

Thanks.Bohemian Gal (talk) 03:42, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is ample documentation available on how to create an encyclopedic article here on Wikipedia (versus an advertising page, which will be deleted almost instantly). Start with the links in the Welcome message above. By the way, when it comes to changing a redirect, you have all the capability that I have, and the documentation on how to do so is here. However, understand that it needs to be changed to an existing, appropriate destination, and that your change can be reverted by another editor (and almost certainly will be) if it is not appropriate. The best solution is the one I mention above. Dwpaul ^Talk 03:49, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"I put a request on the Redirect page, so whatever." - Where? I don't see anything on this at WP:RfD (nor anything on the redirect page itself). Dwpaul ^Talk 03:57, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter. I'm obviously not smart enough to deal with this. Thanks for you help.Bohemian Gal (talk) 04:10, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I found it. I needed to change your request at WP:RfD to use the correct template format, but it's there now.[2] Dwpaul ^Talk 04:40, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Was moved to here.[3]. Dwpaul ^Talk 15:04, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]