User talk:Chocolateediter

West Yorkshire collage

Hi, Just to say I like the inclusion of an image of Ilkley Moor in the collage - now where's my hat? Murgatroyd49 (talk) 15:46, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Bound to catch a death of cold baht 'at. Chocolateediter (talk) 15:56, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Ey up! I stand by what I said in my edit summary, that this is your best collage yet. I've just given it a bit of a tweak and wanted to explain why.

• The Huddersfield photo was good, but cropping it helps emphasise the bridge and barge, which is important at such a small size.
• I've done some simple editing of the Hudderfield and Ilkley images to improve the things like the colour and brightness, which just helps them stand out that bit more.

Again, really good job. I'm not setting myself up as some sort of collage expert, but thought you'd appreciate the insight into what I do when I'm compiling mine. A.D.Hope (talk) 19:57, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Perfectly fine by me to tweak colouring and crop, I am not much of a tweak and re-uploader, only uploads to commons from geograph and the odd search. I love seeing pictures lighten up.

The brilliance tends to be the main thing to me, I just wack it up and nine times out of ten it doesn't need much else.

I did the historic County Durham map overlay recently and that took more time on commons than I've ever done before. Chocolateediter (talk) 20:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, the amount of times I've found almost the perfect image and then realised I'll have to go through the rigmarole of a Commons upload just to tweak it is too high. We're getting there, though! A.D.Hope (talk) 20:41, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

10 years of ever increasing quality of phone pictures is noticeable. Just have to stop yerself from looking at really good pictures you know you can't upload, that's what I do the only problem is remembering if I've see it in person or see a good picture before then I get annoyed.

Maybe fiddle around to see if they is an easier way to upload photos. On Geograph I copy the description, press licensing, press directly upload this image to Wikimedia Commons, paste description into the summary description field (otherwise is just has the image name), add categories and upload file. You can check it is already uploaded but it doesn't work well and if the file is already there it will wipe the box anyway when you upload.

In any photo's commons article's file history you can press "Upload a new version of this file".

I have in preferences the "timeless" appearance on commons, in desktop mode it is responsive to mobile viewing, shows add categories before you upload and I tend to find it looks and works better than the default. Chocolateediter (talk) 21:35, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

West Midlands (county) collage

Hi @Chocolateediter. Noticed your change to the infobox collage at West Midlands (county). I don't see how it's appropriate for Droitwich Canal to be the main image when said canal is not in the West Midlands county. The canal runs between Droitwich and Worcester - see Droitwich Canal#Map. Hoping you'll come up with something more representative. Cheers. Rupples (talk) 01:13, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Sorry about that, typed in West Midlands and forgot that it would show the region. Chocolateediter (talk) 18:03, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

See you've now changed it. Thanks. Rupples (talk) 19:25, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Wynyard Village (July 30)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DoubleGrazing was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Wynyard Village and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Chocolateediter! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Bonjour

How's things? You've backed off a bit from the North Yorkshire and Buckinghamshire discussions, so I'm just seeing how you are A.D.Hope (talk) 13:26, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Birthday then coming up Dublin trip. I'm trying to dial back edits because I get too tied in te wiki sometimes. Chocolateediter (talk) 19:39, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh wonderful! Happy birthday! Don't worry about the discussions, they can wait. Enjoy the trip :) A.D.Hope (talk) 18:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@A.D.Hope:, I'm back, some more birthdays and got a cold when I came back so some days off doing little bits and back to feeling better. After months of planned stuff I'm in a quiet time where I need to find stuff to do. I've changed the Merseyside pics and suggested some Bucks pics. Chocolateediter (talk) 16:49, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh no, that's no fun! Glad you're feeling better now though.

I'm not quite sure about Merseyside, as two of the images are 'beachy' and, although Dream does look a bit odd, it's good in that it represents something cultural and from St Helens. Why not keep the Pier Head, but swap one of the other two for the Lady Lever Gallery or something along those lines? A.D.Hope (talk) 17:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Knowsley Hall, the Earls of (West) Derby (Hundred) residence. Inland and has a history to the area. Chocolateediter (talk) 18:22, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Hmmm, it's basically a wedding venue these days and not actually that historic a house. Why not have a browse of the Port Sunlight images? A.D.Hope (talk) 19:33, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2023

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10:35, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

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BUA/BUASD

Where did you find BUASDs being renamed for 2021?

(btw, I really think you should have proposed that move beforehand at WP:WikiProject UK geography.) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:29, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

@JMF:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/articles/townsandcitiescharacteristicsofbuiltupareasenglandandwales/census2021#data-sources-and-quality

"Towns and cities, characteristics of built-up areas, England and Wales: Census 2021", Section 10: "Data sources and quality", under "Built-up area (BUA) geography".

I've read also read conglomeration somewhere on the site a while back as the new term, it could have been scrapped or not released yet.

I regretted the move afterwards, spur of the moment. Chocolateediter (talk) 18:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

www.ons.gov.uk/methodology/geography/ukgeographies/othergeographies Chocolateediter (talk) 18:34, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

I thought with

2001	2011	2021
Urban area	Built-up area	Conglomeration
Urban area sub-division	Built-up area sub-division	Built-up area

just call the wider area conurbation since it is the article explaining the international one. I honestly first read conglomeration and thought agglomeration for a while before conglomeration stuck so I have five terms in my head.

For the smaller area use city/town/village/place or settlement because built-up area has a differing meaning from 2011 to 2021. Chocolateediter (talk) 19:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

This is exactly why you should have tested the idea at WUKG first. As I read it, BUAs do not replace BUASDs. BUAs wil continue to exist as they were for settlements that aren't big enough to have useful subdivisions. The large BUAs are renamed as conglomerations (perish the thought that they could use the established term agglomeration!) but they don't say what nomenclature they plan to use.

So I think you have jumped the gun and that you should self-revert and wait for the full announcement. And invite comment at WUKG first. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:07, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

"The main change is that the geography has been simplified into a single layer, providing one boundary and a single set of statistics for each settlement.

Changes and updates to the geography boundaries since 2011 mean that statistics from 2021 BUAs cannot be directly compared with those from 2011. The single layer used in the new geography most closely resembles the 2011 BUA subdivision layer."

I took this to mean the first later link was confirmation of conglomeration mentioned in the second earlier link as the new term for the top layer was scrapped at some point and that BUA is the only layer they use now. I had to dig around for the 2nd older link but had the newer link at hand the order I sent them may have gave off the other way round.

All the articles on 2011-BUAs and the list are now in need of using a new metric for population with 2021 census not catering to them. A new excuse for the articles exist is needed, I guess Tyneside might be one that could stay with the Geordie identity backing it up but each needs to be decided on whether they merge into the corresponding counties or place articles.

My brain sees components of words. Think about the times I've tried searching for agglomeration to pull up the first link to no avail, probably separate con so that I don't get confused with conurbation . Conurbation itself to me reads to me as con-urban-tion (connected the places are) which means I keep miss-spelling it by adding an "n" every once and a while.

The spur of the moment move should help me think of consulting first, what is done is done I hope I'll be wiser if another ever crosses my mind again. Chocolateediter (talk) 00:07, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

For now, I advise you revert the change (I think you will need help from an administrator so use {{help me}}).

Then start a new topic at the WikiProject because I really think it is going to be a total dog's breakfast. I can see Manchester as a conurbation but Northampton? (Just because in 2011 the ONS decided to delineate two BUASDs, one also called Northampton, how stupid is that? They did even worse at MK, actually splitting the 1967 New Town designated area in two and calling one fragment MK!!) I suspect (hope!) they got a good kicking. I suggest that we really need to combine a lot of personal horror stories to find a formula that works, it really is too complicated for one person to solve. Which perhaps is the reason why the ONS haven't solved it yet either! 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 18:03, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Of course DankJae is correct. WP:RMT is what you need. Do'oh! --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:34, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Merseyside

Hey Chocolateediter,

I can't be sure if you've seen what I wrote at Talk:Merseyside, but I suspect you probably have. I just wanted to make it very clear that I was talking about a few specific edits, not you as an editor. They were a bit of an irritation, but irritation is a minor feeling which passes. Not a big deal. Plus I know I have my own habits which are equally annoying! What I wrote looks harsh and I apologise for that, but it doesn't reflect my actual emotions. In my experience things always look worse in writing than they'd sound if you spoke them, so please don't think I dislike you.

All the best, A.D.Hope (talk) 17:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Na didn’t see it, thanks anyway. I’ve done some Bucks pics if want give the all clear on them. Chocolateediter (talk) 18:11, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, you would have done at some point and the last thing I want is any sort of rift.

I think that Bucks looks great, have you done some work on the images? Also, I know you're only saying it lightly, but it's not my place to give the 'all clear' to your edits. We're collaborators working toward a consensus. A.D.Hope (talk) 18:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I respect your view and I like your similar view on pictures to me, if we don't agree it seems that we both find a good resolution quite fast anyway.

All clear was the phrase that came to me, your one of the collaborators who was working on the consensus with me and I had you here so seemed convenient to get your view.

I said I didn't do photo editing then started doing it a lot because I quite like doing it like the trio collage. Chocolateediter (talk) 19:37, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Exactly, we are pretty good at resolving things! The collages are quite fun to do, I must admit, glad you're also enjoying them A.D.Hope (talk) 09:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

List of Catholic churches in the United Kingdom

While taking an interest in the List of Catholic churches in the United Kingdom can be helpful, such an overhaul of the sorting of the article after mentioning it in the talk page would have been better. While you took hours yesterday getting it done, the very changes that you did were raised before, and disagreed with. A mention in the talk page before that work would have been best. Cardofk (talk) 14:10, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - September 2023

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12:15, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:York City Centre has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:York City Centre. Thanks! Qcne (talk) 12:21, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment @Qcne:.

Which parts need more refs, they is some dotted around the draft do they need to be referred back to a bit more. I think I've done enough to match other city centre articles.

Any local knowledge I can look up and add with refs to help fill any gaps. I am from near Middlesbrough so I've some knowledge from a lot of day trips and looking up but not a lot beyond that. Chocolateediter (talk) 12:37, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

So, a few sections have zero references such as North West, South east, Places of worship, and Transport. It looks like its WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH if you just state the locations of various buildings/neighbourhoods/places. It's a tricky one to get right. Qcne (talk) 12:40, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

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Metro areas

In case you miss it, there is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography#Metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom that you may find of interest. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

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Annoying anonymous editor

'I did the historic County Durham map overlay recently and that took more time on commons than I've ever done before'

Then surely you would have noticed the 'Portrack Cut', why did you not mention this cut in the 'Stockton' racecourse article? You do know that there has never been a racecourse in Stockton?. As for the nonsense you've made-up about Thornaby, do you actually know anything about the town? I was born and bred in the town and have researched it's history for many, many years. Where are your citations? Or are you deliberately going out of your way to undermine the town? 86.22.156.129 (talk) 21:51, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

User: 86.4.91.211 did

"

". Although named "Stockton Racecourse" there was never a racecourse actually located within Stockton-on-Tees but, across the River Tees in the North Riding of Yorkshire".

"

In 2013

It confused me, surely you should have noticed the Mandale Cut is one you are on about NOT the Portrack Cut so get off your high horse for summit I did 4 years ago rather than getting your own facts straight and putting the correct information yerself. Chocolateediter (talk) 19:20, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

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Greater Leicester etc

I advise that you pause these changes pending consensus at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography#"Greater Leicester"?? as I suspect that it is rather unlikely to be accepted in advance of whatever the ONS comes up with (Agglomeration? Conurbation? but highly unlikely to be Greater anything). 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:01, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree, your move wasn't so terrible that it needed to be shot down first, ask questions later. Which is why I didn't. WP:AGF.

Your logic is not sound though.

• There has been no discussion (especially no recent discussion) about the title of the page that expressed any objection to a new title, but equally There has been no discussion ... that expressed any need for a change of title. Yes, you can WP:BEBOLD for blatantly obvious moves but this one was not such.
• It seems unlikely that anyone would reasonably disagree with the move. Greater Manchester would disagree, its the only thing that makes them Second City. "Greater Birmingham" (including Wolverhampton, Dudley and Walsall) would probably trump them.

In my experience, if in doubt, consult first. That way you are more likely to achieve the result you wanted or at least have had a fair hearing. Otherwise people feel they are being railroaded and just dig their heels in. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Bold is bold, editors should respect it more otherwise we'd get nowhere. I thank you for doing that, shame it wasn't just you who noticed the edit so fast.

Greater just means referring to a region or place together with the surrounding area pertaining to it; (of a city) metropolitan.

Shire and greater can be almost synonymous but so can conurbation (con = with, urb = city, tion = acting).

Ultimately the area with Birmingham is the Black Country which decides to co-operate with Birmingham but has its own identity which is understandable as it practically equals Birmingham. Manchester doesn't have the same situation as the other places squabble to be separate identities thierselves.

Greater Manchester BUA would instantly have the Greater Manchester article space if the county didn't exist. I wish the Victorian -polis would come back into use I would very much like Ironopolis, Cottonopolis and so on over Tees Valley and Greater Manchester.

I like

Conurbation for one place with small places that don't equal or aren't bigger than the largest

Metropolis for multiple places that can equal or be bigger than the largest.

I might propose this as we need to sort this definition of what a metropolitan area is (although metropolitan is more local authority) Chocolateediter (talk) 17:47, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

That logic is reasonable except that you bump up against precedent. I hit the same problem when I wanted to refer to 'districts of Milton Keynes' – "Oh no, you can't do that, MK was a District of Buckinghamshire, the word 'district' is bagsed" (or words to that effect). Well that is a bit of an extreme case but the phrase "Greater Abcde" has a meaning in UK law, as does "metropolitan" and "non-metropolitan", so we can't appropriate them for another use because they are already loaded terms. I really think that the ONS has made an even bigger rod for their own backs: BUAs and BUSAs aren't great terms but places like Northampton being called a conurbation? Seriously?? And we couldn't possibly have agglomeration, far too French! But the fundamental point is that you are on a hiding to nothing when you try to assert your own terminology. We really have no choice but to wait for the ONS to reveal the answer.

If it is of any consolation, there is a lot of it about:

Defining a city or large town is not as straightforward as it may sound. And it’s something that there are any different opinions about – Centre for Cities gets more correspondence on this issue than anything else that we do.

— Centre for Cities Does how we define cities change our understanding of them?

You just have to accept that anything in this area is a hot button for someone so it is wisest to test the water first. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:22, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

That Greater Leicester was a testing I was doing Liverpool BUA but the redirect thing so all in all Greater … is out of the window. Chocolateediter (talk) 20:10, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - November 2023

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Your submission at Articles for creation: York City Centre (November 5)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DoubleGrazing was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

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DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

The Blackpool topic[edit source]

Greetings - I noted you likely are much more of a stakeholder in the Blackpool article - I did make many bold and rabidly strident changes - and I documented them as such in the audit trail of the edits - I do apologize - all edits made in good faith.

Sadly, the reversion by @DragonofBatley deleted other more conservative edits - the sizing of the images is the most notably visual loss of quality by these wholesale resets.

As with most matters there is always a civil middle ground and sure - I have no interest in edit wars and I was crystal clear that I did think my edits - pushed the 'consensus boundaries' - but no one reacted negatively - until this day. There are sections in the article's talk section and there was arguably some degree of consensus.

I usually only focus on medical and science articles and there is less room for bombast and group think in such articles -

I did actually think the changes others made - size of images - should be reverted - but I am not getting directly involved.

Kind Regards, Dr. BeingObjective (talk) 18:12, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

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3RR violation

You have just done your third reversion. I am about to do the same. From now on, we are required to resolve this at the article talk page. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 00:20, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Racecourses map

Hi, thanks for adding the maps to show all the British racecourses - would you be able to add Kempton Park to the south-east Britain map? Bcp67 (talk) 20:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Added, probably missed more. Chocolateediter (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you - I couldn't spot any others at first glance, I can give it another look. Bcp67 (talk) 21:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

No thank you, a polite nudge that I missed one like yours is always something that is always appreciated. Chocolateediter (talk) 22:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

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(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:54, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh yes it is! Oh no it isn't!

If you haven't already seen talk:Bedford#Populations used in lead and infobox, it may help explain my "interesting". There must be hundreds of such disputes around the country that are totally non-obvious to anybody who doesn't live nearby or travels through it regularly. The stretch from Upton to Hordle via Poole, Bournemouth, Southbourne, Christchurch, Highcliffe and New Milton is the stuff on nightmares aka WP:OR). I think you would be making a rod for your own back. There is a reason why the ONS is struggling to get the agglomeration definitions out and why they are trying to dump it on the ONS. It's difficult! --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:31, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - May 2024

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22:29, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of List of ONS built-up areas in England by population for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of ONS built-up areas in England by population is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of ONS built-up areas in England by population until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:30, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

FYI, the AFD process invites nominators to consider alternatives to outright deletion, such as park in draft space. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)