User talk:Sarasays/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Sarasays. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

We're recruiting art lovers!

Archives of American Art Wikimedia Partnership - We need you!

Hi! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the Archives of American Art and I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about art and quality content to participate in furthering art coverage on Wikipedia. I am planning contests and projects that will allow you access, no matter where you live, to the world's largest collection of archives related to American art. Please sign up to participate here, and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 00:14, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar Barnstar

		The Barnstar Barnstar
		The Barnstar Barnstar is for contributors who make Barnstars. So thank you for creating the beautiful Archives of American Art barnstar! SarahStierch (talk) 13:58, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Citation tags

Go crazy!!!! Wikipedia:Template_messages/Cleanup#Neutrality_and_factual_accuracy SarahStierch (talk) 19:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

You're invited: Smithsonian Institution Women in Science Edit-a-Thon!

Who should come? You should. Really.
	She Blinded Me with Science: Smithsonian Women in Science Edit-a-Thon will be held on Friday, March 30, 2012 at the Smithsonian Archives in Washington, D.C. This edit-a-thon will focus on improving and writing Wikipedia content about women from the Smithsonian who contributed to the sciences. It will be followed by a happy hour meetup! We look forward to seeing you there!

Sarah (talk) 00:04, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

You're invited: Smithsonian Institution Archives Edit-a-thon!

Please join us for the second Smithsonian Institution Archives Edit-a-thon! This event will focus on Smithsonian history including the history of the Institution's museums, archives, research centers and the people behind them. This will be a great opportunity to learn about the Archives, work within them & with staff, and learn more about the world's largest museum complex. We hope you'll join us on Friday, May 25. Please sign up here! Sarah (talk) 21:50, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Note: You received this message because you were listed here. If you no longer wish to receive messages of this nature, please remove yourself from that list.

WikiWomen's Luncheon at Wikimania 2012

WikiWomen's Luncheon at Wikimania - You are invited!

Are you a woman attending Wikimania 2012? If so, join us on Saturday, July 14, for the annual WikiWomen's Luncheon (fka WikiChix Lunch) This event is for any women attending Wikimania. Pick up your lunch, compliments of Wikimania, and join us at 1:30pm in the Grand Ballroom for a lively facilitated discussion hosted by Sue Gardner. We look forward to seeing you there. Please sign up here.
Sarah (talk) 23:32, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

You're invited to Masterpiece Museum Edit-a-Thon!

"Masterpiece Museum" Edit-a-Thon at the Smithsonian American Art Museum

The Smithsonian American Art Museum and Wikimedia DC present the "Masterpiece Museum" Edit-a-Thon. Drawing from their vast vaults of art, the caretakers of the Smithsonian American Art Museum have meticulously drawn forth canvas jewels to import into Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia articles. The museum directors and staff are excited about this project, and would love to have experienced Wikimedians help in the effort! Kirill ^[talk] 18:07, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

When

August 10, 2012, 10 AM - 4 PM

Where

Smithsonian American Art Museum, 7th & F St NW, Washington, DC

Signup

Details & signup

Backstage at the Smithsonian Libraries

Backstage at the Smithsonian Libraries is part of Wikipedia Loves Libraries 2012, the second annual continent-wide campaign to bring Wikipedia and libraries together with on-site events. Running this fall through October and November, libraries (and archives) will open their doors to help build a lasting relationship with their local Wikipedian community.

Organized by Wikimedia DC, this event will take place on October 12, 2012, and will include new editor training, a "backstage pass" tour of the National Museum of Natural History, and an edit-a-thon. Everyone is welcome to attend!

Kirill ^[talk] 18:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Oddball tag

Hi Sara! I stumbled across this today while writing a bit about some artists in Smithsonian holdings[1]. Weird copyright tag...is weird. Just wanted to FYI you about it... SarahStierch (talk) 06:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Sarah! From what I can tell, once this users' contributions are reviewed, the image should be in the clear again. Not sure I need to jump in and do anything? --Sarasays (talk) 22:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
	For great Oct 12th presentation of how to edit with easy fun graphics. CarolMooreDC 02:16, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Help with uploading images

Sara, I missed some important details. How does one correctly categorize an image one is uploading? I recently uploaded one image to Wiki Commons from an Internet source: 'An American Shore Scene' by Thomas Birch, 1827.jpg [after being emboldened at the Wikipedia Loves Libraries editathon at the SI Natural History Museum]. But oops! This new image does not even come up in a search in Wiki Commons for Thomas Birch. Where online can I find out how to correctly categorize this image? I see "Southeast View of 'Sedgeley Park'" (also by Thomas Birch) as an example of correct categorization (media, artist, etc.), but I don't understand how to categorize new images. Help! (...and did I even contact you in the correct manner?) Sorry, I have schedule conflicts with upcoming Wikipedia events in DC. Okita2 (talk) 14:51, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Okita2! From what I can see you are doing things right so far! And yes, this is a proper way to contact me. The search function on Commons can be a little bit hit or miss sometimes. Typically you add categories during upload, but you can see/add new categories after the fact as well by clicking "edit" on the image page on Commons. I was able to find found the image you uploaded on Commons, and actually it now has lots of nice categories, thanks to the automatic work of CategorizationBot. If you look at the History tab and click Compare Selected Revisions, you will see what I mean. Finally, there is more information about categories here. As you learned at the edit-a-thon, I am not a Commons expert, but I'm happy for us to try and learn more about this topic together. Let me know if this information helps! --Sarasays (talk) 15:12, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Smithsonian Gardens

It seems the article Smithsonian Gardens was tagged, for deletion by User:Secretlondon at 22:58 on 17 October 2012 and then deleted at 8:45 on 18 October 2012 by User:Yunshui for unambiguous copyright violation of the Smithsonian Institution. For a grand total of 10 hours and 27 minutes to make corrections. Thanks for awarding me the Smithsonian barnstar. Geraldshields11 (talk) 21:08, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I posted on my talk page a expanded proof of the article about Smithsonian Gardens. Sorry you did not have a change to edit the original article. I guess other syopos want to continue the domination of Pikachu and delete articles that could threaten Pikachu's world conquest. See Wikipedia:Pokemon test. But, I say that with humor. Geraldshields11 (talk) 21:20, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Please feel free to edit my talk page section about the Smithsonian Gardens to you hearts content. Please get others to help, edit, change. After all that is what Wikipedia is about.

I am now disappointed in the 10 hour time to make changes so I am stepping away from the keyboard for a while. Geraldshields11 (talk) 21:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I understand your frustration for sure, but am glad that you had a copy of the text so that we can keep working on it together. I am sorry that the 10 hour time window didn't allow me to chime in on the talk page, but oh well. Don't worry--we will get it done! Zealous deletion is a problem, but frankly, copyright infringement is (generally speaking) an even bigger one. In a weird way, I'm sort of glad Wikipedia is so conservative about infringement--it speaks to the integrity of the project. Many thanks for your hard work, and I will certainly keep asking around for additional sources!--Sarasays (talk) 14:03, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with the assessment of User:Yunshui. But, I will chosse my battles. Geraldshields11 (talk) 00:44, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Smithsonian Gardens

Allen3 nominated Smithsonian Gardens for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Wikipedia:Did you know. You can see the hook for the article here, where you can improve it if you see fit. Geraldshields11 (talk) 15:18, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for all your help with Wiki stuff, and especially for creating the delightful SIL Barnstar!

Uncommon fritillary (talk) 13:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the award but the kitten should be bold like all Wikiwomen! Geraldshields11 (talk) 00:46, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Uncommon fritillary and Geraldshields11! I sometimes wish I could just escape reality and wiki all the time (it is a noun, adjective, AND verb, right?). Thanks to both of you for the encouragement, and for making WLL2012 such a success. BTW, I am working on Smithsonian Gardens and will hopefully have something deletion-proof ready to go in a few days. --Sarasays (talk) 01:23, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

A Barnstar for you!

	The Smithsonian Flowers Barnstar
	For your encouragement, dedication, and sandbox during the reconstruction of the article about the Smithsonian Gardens. Geraldshields11 (talk) 15:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

DC Meetup #33

December 10 is Ada Lovelace's birthday! Not only was she the world's first computer programmer, but also the world's first female open source developer! Come celebrate with Wikimedia District of Columbia at Busboys & Poets for an informal get together!

The Washington, DC event will be held on Monday, December 10, 2012 at Busboys & Poets on 5th St NW & K St NW near Mt Vernon Square. The area is easily accessible by the Red Line Chinatown stop and the Yellow Line and Green Line Mt Vernon Square stop, as well as by WMATA buses.

Kirill ^[talk] 14:12, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikimedia DC Holiday Party and Wiki Loves Monuments Exhibition

Please join Wikimedia DC and four other local media nonprofits—the National Press Club's Young Members Committee, 100Reporters, IRE and the Fund for Investigative Journalism—in winding down another year with a night of well-mannered frivolity.

The festivities will take place on Friday evening from 6:30 PM to 9:00 PM in the Zenger Room on the 13th Floor of the National Press Club, located on 529 14th Street NW, near Metro Center. There will be meat and vegetarian appetizers as well as a cash bar with specially reduced drink prices all night long. In addition, we will be exhibiting the finalists of the Wiki Loves Monuments photo contest at the event.

Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 04:37, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello Ms. Says

I am often troubled with the seemingly restrictive copyright laws in the USA, particularly in regard to photographs of public sculpture. I also have been led to believe that images at the Smithsonian are in the public domain. And in this case when I say "Smithsonian" I am in particular referring to the SIRIS database. I can not believe that the sculptors (or their heirs) whose works are displayed on the data base have been contacted and have released these images to the public domain. I worked in the Save Outdoor Sculpture! project and took some of the pictures. An example. Glenna Goodacre's "Raising the Flag" found [[2]]

I am pretty sure that I took those pictures and with a bit of luck could even locate the negatives. (Yes, in hand). Does the fact that SIRIS has published these pictures on their website, (and that they are presumably copyright free) mean that I can scan my negatives and that those images are also copyright free? What about pictures that were sent to the SIRIS (actually, SOS!) but not put on the website? Are they copyright free too? And so it goes. It is too bad tha the USA does not have Freedom of Panorama, but we don't. I wonder what it would take to get it? Probably paying a Washington lobbyist a million dollars? But that is another concern. If you would rather carry this discussion on in email that's fine. Oh yes, I read over your editing goals and find them to be very similar to mine, only better organized and expressed. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:48, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Carptrash. Thanks very much for your message, and a special thanks for your contributions to the Save Outdoor Sculpture! project. Since you have complimented me on being organized, I am going to try and live up to that image by breaking down my answer into a list ;)

General thoughts about copyright at the Smithsonian: Like you, I am tormented by restrictive copyright law in the U.S. I wish that it were simpler! If the Smithsonian Institution were a straightforward federal agency that collected only government created/owned records and works, then everything in our possession would clearly be in the public domain. However, we are a quasi-federal trust instrumentality of the US government, comprised of 27 distinct museums and research centers, no two of which operate in the exact same way. Every accession we bring in physically has its own deed which (hopefully) clarifies its legal status with regard to intellectual property. The Smithsonian owns the copyright to some of the items we have the physical rights to, but not always, and not everything. So, when it comes to putting images on Commons, we typically have to take it collection by collection--or even item by item--to make sure the rights situation is clear.
About the SIRIS database. SIRIS is our library catalog--it indexes descriptions of objects, records, and publications in the Smithsonian's collections. SIRIS doesn't own anything, it just points you to the museum or research center which does own the item--like a search engine. So, when you find something of interest to you in SIRIS, look down to where it says "Repository." In the case of "Raising the Flag," you will see the repository is the Smithsonian American Art Museum. That museum is the one who can most reliably tell you the copyright status of a given item and its online digital surrogates, in case that isn't clear in the record.
Your specific question about copyright status of Raising the Flag: The answer is that I don't know who owns the rights to the SOS images (the project? the museum? the photographer?) but I am going to contact someone right now who can help us find out. I will let you know as soon as I learn more. The good news is that the Smithsonian American Art Museum (SAAM) has stepped up their involvement and understanding of GLAM-wiki in the last year, and has started contributing more SAAM images to Commons, so I hope they will quickly be able to understand your perspective as a Wikipedian/Wikimedian. Best, Sarasays (talk) 15:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks so much. A lot of food for thought. User:Lockley, with whom I marched stride for stride through wikipedia for years until he left me in the dust, recently pointed [this page] out to me, you might also be interested. However upon reading it I had a problem with the second word ("most") in the article, and I have a long standing guideline that when I disagree with something right at the start I just go away. Don't think I'll do that there. Thanks again, PS. It is hard to get out of Washington DC (even though I am 1500 miles away) when dealing with sculpture. I just created a Michael Lantz article that needs a lot of work. Carptrash (talk) 16:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Carptrash, Here is the response I got from staff of the Inventories of American Painting and Sculpture--I wish it were better news!

The images are not in the public domain. We don’t have the copyright on any of the [SOS] photos in SIRIS, and we can’t give permission to reproduce the images. We’ve been scanning at low resolution for reference purposes only. We always recommend researchers contact the owner of the artwork to obtain images and permission to reproduce.

I will be sure and take a look at Michael Lantz. And I agree that Freedom of Panorama would be lovely thing! --Sarasays (talk) 16:08, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that I thanked you for this, so . . . . . . . . . . . ....... thanks.Carptrash (talk) 18:24, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 16

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Homer Dodge Martin, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Edward Gay, William Hart and George Boughton (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Hi, From Maberry

You wrote on my wall and so I'm saying Hi, back. Yes, I'll be at ARLIS. I actually live in L.A. I also notice that you and I have been editing on Wikipedia for almost the exact amount of time. Would love to meet you. ----Sue Maberry (talk) 00:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, let's plan on it. Will contact you when time is closer...--Sarasays (talk) 18:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

DC happy hour on Thursday, February 28!

Please join Wikimedia DC for Happy Hour at the Capitol City Brewery at Metro Center on Thursday, February 28 at 6 p.m. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, see Wikipedia:Meetup/DC 34. Hope to see you there! Harej (talk) 02:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Looking through the archives

Thanks for your recent improvement work at the Armory Show article. I hope to get myself to NYC this October to see the centennial exhibit. It's strange that they could not get it together for late February/early March (right now!) to correspond exactly with the centennial anniversary.

Regarding the "We Can Do It!" poster from 1943, I wonder if you in your role at SI can shed any light on how the poster came out of near oblivion to be featured by Patricia Brennan in her article written for Washington Post Magazine in May 1982: "Poster Art for Patriotism's Sake". What was the impetus for the poster to be re-examined by SI or National Archives people? Was it reproduced for sale prior to May 1982? Perhaps there are records kept of who looked at the poster and when.

In May 2012 I emailed NAMH curators William L. Bird and Harry R. Rubenstein with questions about the poster's provenance but I did not hear back. Lester C. Olson and James J. Kimble say that there are only two original posters in the world, one at NatArchives and one at NAMH. I wonder who it was that owned the posters before they were donated. Binksternet (talk) 19:33, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Binksternet,

Thank you for the compliment. You raise a very interesting question! I will consult the reference staff at the Smithsonian Archives and Smithsonian Libraries and see if I can help to find you a good answer. Stay tuned! --Sarasays (talk) 16:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Follow up on Ethel Myers page.

Hi Sarasays,

I am just about to send this message to an editor named Mkdw. I thought I'd also take the liberty of sending you a copy since you seem quite knowledgeable about Wikipedia and also expressed an interest in what I had done with Ethel's listing. Please forgive me for interrupting your Sunday or whenever you get this. I just sensed this might get a little complicated.

Earlier today I finished my primary work on the Ethel Myers page. The identification of the page (or location) is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BEDownes/Ethel_Myers. I don't know if you can view it as yet since it hasn't yet been published. I did do a "submit" on the page, but ran into a bit of a problem which I think can be cleared up rather easily if I can find the best way to do it.

When I started on the page, my first work was just completing the Infobox entries. When I finished entering that information (which was to be just the start of my work), I wanted to just save what I had done and must have accidentally selected "submit," thinking I was saving it.

The next thing I learned was Mkdw had then reviewed it and quite properly responded with "Submission declined on 20 January 2013 by Mkdw (talk). This submission provides insufficient context for those unfamiliar with the subject matter. Please see the guide to writing better articles for information on how to better format your submission."

My work product was identified as "Articles for creation/Ethel Myers" I thought I was perhaps confused over how I made the mistake. It seemed perhaps better just to start over again (yes, my mistake here) with a fresh document. I created the document as User:BDDownes/Ethel Myers and completed it over the following weeks. Tonight I put the last touch-ups on it and saved and submitted it.

Wikipedia properly held up its hand and said not so fast, buddy, there is already an Ethel Myers page registered in the system (or words to that effect.) That made perfect sense to me once I understood the problem.

Is there a way I, as the creator of the first page, could just ask to have it deleted. If that was possible I could then just re-submit the full article I properly created as User:BEDownes/Ethel Myers?

Or do I need to somehow convert it into "Articles for creation" in some way? Thanks for any thoughts you might have as the best way to handle this.

BEDownes (talk) 00:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi BEDownes, Since your message I can see that you have updated the article and resubmitted it for review. I have begun reviewing it myself and will probably approve and publish it soon. You have clearly provided lots of context, addressing the earlier concern expressed by Mkdw, and you have clearly demonstrated the notability of the subject. My only concerns at this point are a few minor formatting points, as well as making sure the article adheres to Wikipedia's policy for neutral point of view. This is just to say that the tone and language should be encyclopedic and unbiased throughout. I will let you know when my review is finished. Congratulations and thank you for all of your hard work.Sarasays (talk) 14:52, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Late last night a revision had been done on the live talk page

Hi Sarasays,

I just found a note saying you were already being kind enough to review what I've done with the Ethel Myers page. I'm not sure if you're looking at it in sort of its final condition. I should have contacted you to tell you want had gone on, but I was a bit exhausted at the time, and my wife had been waiting dinner, etc. So I didn't get back to my computer.

I had gone on to the live support page and I saved the dialogue I was having there and the very helpful work they had done for me.

[20:28] <bdownes> If you can take a look at the page I completed for Ethel Myers atUser: BDDownes/Ethel Myers you'll see where I was headed. I apologize for my early mistake [20:29] <bdownes> It would be great if we could just delete the earlier page you reviewed and just allow me to resubmit the work I had intended for Wikipedia [20:30] <+Someguy1221> bdownes, you can just paste over the whole thing [20:30] <+Someguy1221> we like to leave the old versions in the page history so we can see what was changed in newer submissions [20:31] <bdownes> I though there was a warning that it was dangerout to paste over. I certainly could do it. Or would it possibly destroy history or something [20:32] <bdownes> There was so little in the first scratch version I did, it really isn't needed as a comparison[20:32] [20:33] <nonsenseferret> i've already done it bdownes [20:33] <bdownes> Talk about service! [20:34] <nonsenseferret> i've already tried to make the formats a bit more standards compliant [20:34] <bdownes> What URL will I find it at? [20:34] <nonsenseferret> so i've made quite a few edits [20:34] <nonsenseferret> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Ethel_Myers [20:35] <bdownes> Scary - and I thought it was already perfect. Just kidding! [20:35] <bdownes> Do I now check over what you've done and then submit it for use on Wikipedia? [20:37] <nonsenseferret> you can make edits - you may want to make your own adjustments [20:37] <nonsenseferret> then you can submit whenever you like [20:37] <nonsenseferret> there is a backlog so it might take a while [20:37] <nonsenseferret> in the meantime you can continue to edit [20:37] <bdownes> Of course. Thank you so much

Forgive the paste-in, but it seemed the best way to update you. The layout and the paste-in by <nonsenseferret> really helped things quite a bit and he handled the paste-in to the Articles_for_creation.

I do apologize for being late in getting back to you. I would very much like to know your comments about the final version that <nonsenseferret> did relating to Ethel's work and what new information this article may have brought to light.

Also we should talk at some length about Jerome Myers and the misinformation that has been swirling around his work since around the early 1950's until today. Milton Brown was the worst in leading the band. He obviously knew nothing about the lower East Side, the daily neighborhood life of "the Ghetto" or even how children were dressed. They did not live in rags, as the pictures Riis provided as "evidence" might suggest. Yes, life in the tenements was quite crowded, but it was also an extraordinary time and place to be alive. Anyway I am a first-rate researcher (with 23 years of experience working for many of the largest law firms in the country helping to defend major music artists and writers from false attacks on their reputations. I only turned to investigating the subject of the lower East Side about three years ago.

It is now probable, if not certain, that Jerome Myers was one of the two or three greatest artist-historians this country has ever produced. This observation appears no where in the article I provided to Wikipedia. And it shouldn't yet. First of all, I'm his grandson. What would be needed to back up that statement and make it proper for a Wikipedia, would be to have a number of leading experts in the field confirm that observation. I'm about to present a very well documented case that they provide just that information.

Anyway, again my thanks for your contacting me. I am an interesting guy. If you'd like a c.v. of mine I'd be glad to send it along. It may add a little to my credibility and the range of my background - more in show business than American history.

Best wishes, BEDownes (talk) 17:04, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

The article is up at Ethel Myers. You can see from the edit history that your work and the work of nonsenseferret done yesterday has been preserved. I have also done my own edits. Feel free to keep working away on the published article! Sarasays (talk) 17:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

P.S. - I should add, no CV required! That is the beauty of Wikipedia: credentials are not important, as long as we all follow policies and best practices and cite verifiable, published 3rd party sources. It it tricky, as you say, to stay neutral when you are related to the subject; we can't use terms like "greatest" because such qualities are always opinions. - Sarasays (talk) 17:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Not really a new topic, but a thank you for the care and attention you've given my submission

I'm still so new to many things about Wikipedia that even responding, or adding to a talk page, can be a little daunting in terms of how it should best be done. Still selecting a "New Section" should make sure I'm reaching you.

I have carefully reviewed your changes and revisions in my submission. You really do first-rate work and I'm in total agreement about essentially all the changes you made, both in format and content. I note you've been at this "game" with Wikipedia for over six years. How great a thing to be doing and doing it so well.

Yes, you did have to clean up a few places where a subjective tone crept into my text. I did try to avoid that trap from the start, but I still slipped here and there. It definitely brought a smile to my lips as I saw you protecting the integrity of the article. Thank you. It's always dangerous to trust relatives, even when they're trying to be good.

All best wishes, BEDownes (talk) 00:27, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I am relieved that you were not offended by my edits to your work! You did such an amazing job bringing the facts of Ethel's life and art together, I simply did not want the article to be tainted with any accusations of bias from the community. I do hope you will reserve some subjective reminiscences and speculation for your own memoirs though--what a fascinating family history. And am I wrong in guessing that Victoria's article will be up next? ;)

While I did create my first Wikipedia article over six years ago, it is only in the last couple of years that I started editing on a more regular basis, largely because I met some Wikipedians in "real life" who helped mentor me, giving me new technical skills & increasing my confidence. Wikipedia can be a very tricky and intimidating platform! If you happen to live near an area where there are active Wikipedia chapters and events (i.e. Wikimedia Meet-ups in NYC), I highly recommend attending an edit-a-thon or other event in person if you can--the opportunity to learn and ask questions of other editors face to face is an incredible learning experience.

Best wishes to you as well, Sarasays (talk) 17:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, your suspicions about me are correct. Virginia Myers is the next item on my Wikipedia "to do list." Still it's going to be some time in coming. I need to speak to some key dance people at The Library of Performing Arts at Lincoln Center for starters. Most important, I need get to as famous a choreographer and/or perhaps leading figure in dance as I can find. None of these people will know anything about the career of this child of Jerome and Ethel's. Hell, I knew damn little about her over most of my professional life. She never talked about that period of her life, though she did tell me a few incidents about dancing in Broadway shows (which she did over a span of five or six years after Carnegie Hall). Actually Ethel opened the door to her first show by setting up a meeting with Earl Carroll and brought along Virginia's scrapbook, which had to be something to see.

Earl Carroll took a look at the reviews and immediately signed Virginia to a contract as one of the featured acts for his big new musical revue "Earl Carroll's Vanities of 1924." I think the show became more famous for the amount of nudity in it, rather than for any great pretensions of art.

Still there was one small problem for Mr. Carroll. He had rolled the dice and had never actually seen Virginia dance. All the dances she had created over the years were totally improvisational--going all the way back to the age of 4. She often would not even have heard the music she was going to dance to when she went on stage. (The Vogue article seemed to confirm that fact among others.) There were no rehearsals, no choreographer, or dance teacher watching her to make suggestions or corrections. The very nature of these performances was that the dancing was coming purely out of the child's imagination and response to the music. Isadora Duncan would seem to have been the closest parallel in dancing to what this child did, but she worked out her highly effective dance performances and certainly rehearsed them to the music she would be hearing.

In any case, when Earl Carroll saw the kind of dancing Viginia was famous for, he knew it could never work in his musical revue. So about the only thing he could do with her was put her into the chorus somewhere. Of course, at this point she had no music training and didn't even know how to do a time step. But she struggled on and was able to learn enough of the basics to find some place in the chorus. (The standard of dancing was not that high in those days.) The irony is she was probably the highest paid chorus girl Carroll ever hired.

I didn't mean to go on at such length, but here's what really startled me about all this. I do have a significant background in many aspects of show business. Perhaps this credit is worth mentioning since it does have some connection with the world of dance. I was co-producer and co-writer for a highly successful live-and-film black-tie event at Lincoln Center paying tribute to Fred Astaire. My partner and I first flew to California and held a series of meetings with Mr. Astaire going through all of his films and details of his career as a dancer. We then worked out a format for the evening we all felt comfortable with and my partner and I then came back to New York for months of editing and organizing the show.

I only bring this up because I do have some professional knowledge of the challenges of a live performance and what this extraordinary child had to be facing. Just looking at one of the many programs for her performances, there was well over an hour of music involving many different composers and styles of music (not including encores). The only way I can conceive of bringing this off is with a child that has an extraordinary feeling for music and improvisation matched with an enormous amount of poise.

Is there anything this should tell us about the world of dance? Might other children find such a magic inside themselves if ever given the chance? It's an interesting question.

Oh, yes, one other added observation. What was happening with Virginia was not one child doing an improvisation to a piece of music for two or three minutes. We're talking about a complete afternoon or evening program of various pieces of music performed in front of an audience. That means the dancer can not get away with just a few of her favorite moves and twirls and hold the audience's attention. There has to be much more variety and surprise in what she will be doing over the course of the performance to keep the audience's attention and enthusiasm. Not an easy job.

I've bored you long enough with hypotheticals. You're released until I come sneaking up on you again. Thanks much. And, by the way, you may have noticed I made a few minor changes in Ethel's article. Just pushed the mother-daughter picture down and bit so Ethel's Ashcan picture now sits beside the article and the other three pictures are displayed side by side below it.

BEDownes (talk) 01:20, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The Teahouse Turns One!

It's been an exciting year for the Teahouse and you were a part of it. Thanks so much for visiting, asking questions, sharing answers, being friendly and helpful, and just keeping Teahouse an awesome place. You can read more about the impact we're having and the reflections of other guests and hosts like you. Please come by the Teahouse to celebrate with us, and enjoy this sparkly cupcake badge as our way of saying thank you. And, Happy Birthday!

	Teahouse First Birthday Badge
	Awarded to everyone who participated in the Wikipedia Teahouse during its first year! To celebrate the many hosts and guests we've met and the nearly 2000 questions asked and answered during this excellent first year, we're giving out this tasty cupcake badge. Earn more badges at: Teahouse Badges

--Ocaasi and the rest of the Teahouse Team 22:31, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to a discussion: Wikipedia and legislative data

Hi Sarasays, since you are interested in meetups in DC, I'd like to invite you to attend the Cato Institute's "Wikipedia and Legislative Data" events on March 14. (There's also an all day workshop on March 15; let me know if you are interested, we may be able to add more people.)

There will be an introduction to Wikipedia and open edit-a-thon in the afternoon, and a Sunshine Week Reception in the evening. I hope you can make it!

Please sign up here
Announcement on Cato's blog
Background from Cato sponsor Jim Harper's perspective
Background from Wikipedian Pete Forsyth's perspective

Hope to see you there! -Pete (talk) 19:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, March 9!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Guapo's at Tenleytown-AU on Saturday, March 9 at 5 PM All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see Wikipedia:Meetup/DC 35. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 13:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Sarasays,

I think I'm just being a little dumb again. I started a page on Virginia Myers as you suspected I would. I only wanted to start in with some information and then add to it in the weeks or months to come before it would be ready for the general public to view. I read again about the best way to start a new page, and I thought creating a sub-page would probably be the best choice. The title is User:BEDownes/Virginia_Myers/

I started doing a little bit of work on it and then previewing it. My concern is if I save it (which I should do) is this then going to be reviewed prematurely as happened the last time (my mistake). I could tell from the instructions how to properly use the sandbox since there is already material on Ethel Myers there. If I wanted to use the sandbox technique do I just dump it or what. I'm not sure.

Anyway I'm going to copy the page so I can restore it that way. But it doesn't seem to make sense to do that if that then means someone is going to review it long before I feel it is ready. It may take months yet before I feel confident to do that. BEDownes (talk) 00:25, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Geonotice

Done - thanks for the reminder. Andrew Gray (talk) 15:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!

		Smithsonian American Art Museum barnstar
		Thank you for helping add, edit, and expand content about the Smithsonian American Art Museum! Please enjoy this barnstar. Bathlander (talk) 15:30, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Wow, nice barnstar! Thanks! --Sarasays (talk) 15:47, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

You are invited to a Women in the Arts Meetup & Edit-a-thon on Friday, March 29

In honor of Women's History Month, the Smithsonian and the National Museum of Women in the Arts are teaming up to organize a Women in the Arts Meetup & Edit-a-thon on Friday, March 29, 2013 from 10:00am - 5:00pm. The event is focused on encouraging women editors while improving Wikipedia entries about women artists and art world figures. This event is free of charge, but participation is limited to 20 volunteers, so RSVP today! Sarasays (talk) 23:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Sarasays. You have new messages at SarahStierch's talk page.
Message added 18:31, 21 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

SarahStierch (talk) 18:31, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Hilda Crosby Standish

On 25 March 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hilda Crosby Standish, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Katharine Hepburn recruited Hilda Crosby Standish to be medical director of the first birth control clinic in Connecticut? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hilda Crosby Standish. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Some stroopwafels for you!

Excellent work with the tutorial this morning! Harej (talk) 14:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

Baklava! Thanks for a great presentation. Djembayz (talk) 14:58, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Some tea for a great presentation and all your work for GLAM! Eb dc (talk) 15:02, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Starting Virginia Myers - already being dumb again

Hi Sarasays,

I think I'm just being a little dumb again. I started a page on Virginia Myers as you suspected I would. I only wanted to start in with some information and then add to it in the weeks or months to come before it would be ready for the general public to view. I read again about the best way to start a new page, and I thought creating a sub-page would probably be the best choice. The title is User:BEDownes/Virginia_Myers/

I started doing a little bit of work on it and then previewing it. My concern is if I save it (which I should do) is this then going to be reviewed prematurely as happened the last time (my mistake). I could not tell from the instructions how to properly use the sandbox since there is already material on Ethel Myers there. If I wanted to use the sandbox technique do I just dump the earlier text or what? I'm not sure.

Anyway I'm going to copy the page so I can restore it that way. But it doesn't seem to make sense to do that if that then means someone is going to review it long before I feel it is ready. It may take months yet before I feel confident to do that. BEDownes (talk) 00:31, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi BEDownes,

You are not being dumb, just cautious! Wikipedia's interface can be really confusing sometimes. My understanding and experience is that if you create any page within your userspace (any sub-directories to the right of /User:BEDownes/), it will not be considered submitted for publication. Feel free to hit "save!" For extra safety, you can paste the userspace template {{Userspace draft|date=March 2013}} at the top of the page, which lets other editors know it is a draft, and also tells the search engines not to index it. You can ask other editors to provide feedback on your work while it is still in your userspace without going through any formal channels.

When you feel the article is ready for publication, don't bother going through the "submit for review" a.k.a. "Articles for Creation" (AfC) process, which primarily exists to help anonymous editors who are not registered on Wikipedia. You are a confirmed and registered editor, so here is your best procedure:

Go to the main English Wikipedia and search for the exact name of the article you wish to create, (i.e. Virginia Myers).
You will see the following sentence at the top of the search result page: You may create the page "Virginia Myers," but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered. Click on the red link.
Paste in the article from your userspace (make sure to get rid of the userspace template at this point)
Click the Show preview button, and if all looks right, click Save page.
You are done!

I hope this gives you a little more confidence moving forward. One of my favorite Wikipedia slogans is Be Bold! Whenever I feel uncertain about how to proceed on Wikipedia, I consciously decide to err on the side of boldness :). The experienced editors in the community will let you know if you've made any mistakes, and they will help you to fix them.

Good luck! -Sarasays (talk) 13:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for leaving this question up Sara! I managed to do it to my latest article again, but happily Northamerica1000 found it in articles for review and did so. Great advice above for the intermittent user! And thanks for the Barnstar! :> noranoodle (talk) 19:44, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar

Hooray, thanks. This will look great on my shelf. Pride of place. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 20:15, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Women in Arts

		Archives of American Art Barnstar
		Thank you for your valuable efforts in creating new articles about Woman artists at DC Women in the Arts 2013 ! Great to meet with you - slowking^{Farmbrough's revenge}⇔ †@1₭ 13:41, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

GLAM activities in the USA in March 2013

Hello Sarasays, You have written before for the newsletter This Month in GLAM. I see the USA is missing regarding the edition about March 2013, do you perhaps have any idea what GLAM activities were done in the USA in March? Can you perhaps write about those? Or do you know who I can ask to write about it? Thanks! (Deadline of the March edition is Monday 8 April.) You can start writing via the page outreach:GLAM/Newsletter/Newsroom. If you wish to be informed by e-mail next time, please write me at this page. You can reach me the best at nl-wiki talk page. Greetings - Romaine (talk) 02:23, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks--looks like my friend Slowking4 has got it all under control! --Sarasays (talk) 21:00, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 10

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Oehme, van Sweden & Associates, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page North Point Park (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:40, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, April 13!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, April 13 at 5:30 PM All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see Wikipedia:Meetup/DC 36. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 19:02, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Mail Art Entry

I appreciate your interest in regard to the Mail Art entry. I see that you work for the Archives of American Art. My Papers on Mail Art are included there. I have also written frequently on the subject. I have placed facets of my collection with the Getty Research Center and MOMA/Ny, in addition to AAA. the entry on Mail Art was ably advanced by Vittore Baroni and Keith Bates, but has been tampered with the past year to disastrous effect. How can I help you? John Held, Jr. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.112.122.109 (talk) 15:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Mr. Held, what a pleasure to be contacted by you! Your collection at AAA is one of my primary inspirations for attempting to rescue the Mail Art article from its present state of disrepair. I agree that the work of Vittore Baroni and Keith Bates was a good start; the problem is that they did not use consistent footnotes to cite published sources that verified their assertions. In addition, their tone sometimes veered towards the subjective/laudatory, and they admitted to sharing an account, which goes against Wikipedia policy. The Wikipedia community prizes "neutral point of view" and citation of reliable 3rd party subjects very highly. Editors are also (quite rightly) suspicious of people they suspect are trying to push an agenda, polish a reputation, or have other conflict of interest issues--it is not easy defending the ideals of the encyclopedia genre in world full of advertisers and spammers! However, it seems from reading the Mail Art talk page that communication and good will broke down in a very unfortunate way.

My current plan is to continue adding reliable sources in place of those hideous "citation needed" tags--I have to make it trip to the library this week for some print sources. I also think that the whole article could be more comprehensive and better organized overall. If you would like to contribute to these efforts, I would definitely encourage you to register for a Wikipedia account and start editing the article yourself. However, if you are not interested in the twin challenges of wading through wiki markup and dealing with the community, another option might be for you to send me text or suggested revisions and I could work them into the article. Finally, you can also always post suggestions of text or published sources on the Mail Art talk page, where myself and other editors can pick them up and incorporate them into the article. Thank you again for your offer of help, and feel free to continue contacting me here, or by email at snyders (@) si.edu.--Sarasays (talk) 17:12, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

DC meetups on April 19 and 20

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for two exciting events this weekend:

On the evening of Friday, April 19, we're hosting our first-ever WikiSalon at our K Street office. The WikiSalon will be a twice-monthly informal meetup and collaborative editing event to help build the community of Wikimedia enthusiasts here in DC; please join us for its inaugural session. Light refreshments will be provided.

On Saturday, April 20, we've partnered with the George Washington University to host the All Things GW Edit-a-Thon at the Teamsters Labor History Research Center. Please join us for behind-the-scenes tours of the University Archives and help edit articles about GWU history.

We look forward to seeing you at one or both of these events! Kirill ^[talk] 20:07, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Sarasays/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by TheOriginalSoni (talk) 19:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Sarasays/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by TheOriginalSoni (talk) 19:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Sarasays/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).

This Month in GLAM in April in the USA

Hello Sarasays, You have written before for the newsletter This Month in GLAM. I see the USA report is only a very short story in the edition about April 2013, do you perhaps have any idea what GLAM activities were done in the USA in April? Can you perhaps write about those? Or do you know who I can ask to write about it? Thanks! (Deadline of the April edition is 8 May.) You can start writing at the page outreach:GLAM/Newsletter/Newsroom. If you wish to be informed by e-mail next time, please write me at this page. You can reach me the best at nl-wiki talk page. Greetings - Romaine (talk) 08:55, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, May 11!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, May 11 at 5:30 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 23:07, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Edna Reindel

I noted that at the past meetup no one seems to have expressed interest doing an Edna Reindel page. Is this so? Incidentally, on that meetup page I added a few additional places to look for Edna Reindel information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdrianLesher (talk • contribs) 07:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

It's true, nobody created an article about Edna Reindel at the Women in the Art 2013 Edit-a-Thon -- we just ran out of time. Thank you for adding additional resources! My hope is to return to our "to do" list on that page soon and finish up some of the work that we started. You can feel free to work on any of the articles on the list as well; let me know if there is anything I can do to help! --Sarasays (talk) 20:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

DC WikiSalon on May 24

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of May 24 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 18:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Webinar / edit-a-thon at the National Library of Medicine (NLM)

Join us at the NLM next week, either in person or online, to learn about NLM resources, hear some great speakers, and do some editing!

On Tuesday, 28 May there will be a community Wikipedia meeting at the United States National Library of Medicine in Bethesda, Maryland - with a second on Thursday, 30 May for those who can't make it on Tuesday. You can participate either in-person, or via an online webinar. If you attend in person, USB sticks (but not external drives) are ok to use.

Please go to the event page to get more information, including a detailed program schedule.

If you are interested in participating, please register by sending an email to [email protected]. Please indicate if you are coming in person or if you will be joining us via the webinar. After registering, you will receive additional information about how to get to our campus (if coming in-person) and details about how to join the webinar. Klortho (talk) 00:47, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

DC WikiSalon on June 6

Wikimedia DC invites you to join us for our next DC WikiSalon, which will be held on the evening of Thursday, June 6 at our K Street office.

The WikiSalon an informal gathering of Wikimedia enthusiasts, who come together to discuss the Wikimedia projects and collaboratively edit. There's no set agenda, and guests are welcome to recommend articles for the group to edit or edit on their own. Light refreshments will be provided.

We look forward to seeing you there! Kirill ^[talk] 11:52, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Have time on Saturday?

I'm sorry for the last-minute notice, but on Saturday, June 8, from 3 to 6 PM, Wikimedia DC and the Cato Institute are hosting a Legislative Data Meetup. We will discuss the work done so far by WikiProject U.S. Federal Government Legislative Data to put data from Congress onto Wikipedia, as well as what more needs to be done. If you have ideas you'd like to contribute, or if you're just curious and feel like meeting up with other Wikipedians, you are welcome to come! Be sure to RSVP here if you're interested.

I hope to see you there!

(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for D.C.-area events by removing your name from this list.)

Harej (talk) 04:10, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: May in the USA

Hello Sarasays, You have written before for the newsletter This Month in GLAM. I see the USA is missing regarding the edition about May 2013, do you perhaps have any idea what GLAM activities were done in the USA in May? Can you perhaps write about those? Or do you know who I can ask to write about it? Thanks! (Deadline of the May edition is Friday 7 June 18:00 UTC, so in about 6 hours. If you need more time I can postpone it.) You can start writing at the page outreach:GLAM/Newsletter/May 2013/Contents/USA report. If you wish to be informed by e-mail next time, please write me at this page. You can reach me the best at nl-wiki talk page. Greetings - Romaine (talk) 12:43, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

DC meetup & dinner on Saturday, June 15!

Please join Wikimedia DC for a social meetup and dinner at Vapiano (near Farragut North/Farragut West) on Saturday, June 15 at 5:30 PM. All Wikipedia/Wikimedia and free knowledge/culture enthusiasts, regardless of editing experience, are welcome to attend! All ages welcome!

For more information and to sign up, please see the meetup page. Hope to see you there! Kirill ^[talk] 19:41, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Join us this Sunday for the Great American Wiknic!

	Great American Wiknic DC at Meridian Hill Park
	You are invited to the Great American Wiknic DC at the James Buchanan Memorial at Meridian Hill Park. We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the potluck! :)

Boilerplate message generously borrowed from Wikimedia NYC. To unsubscribe from future DC area event notifications, remove your name from this list.

Harej (talk) 15:35, 19 June 2013 (UTC)