User talk:Laualoha

Aloha! I am starting this page new, with some rules. If you want to see all the discussion up until this point, you can view it here (Jere I highly recommend reading the end of that discussion if you havenʻt already, since you were in it. I will delete what Iʻm writing right now eventually). This discussion has been very interesting, and I thank everyone who participated in it. However, I would like to begin anew with a new style, which I expect to be followed here.

Protocol For This Page

1. ALOHA at ALL TIMES

(not to be confused with "Aloha for All", an organization which this user disagrees strongly).

2. This space is my kuleana. Please respect it. I will have to delete anything that is not appropriate or respectful.

3. However, this is a Free Thought Zone. You may express whatever you want, as long as it is respectful, with Aloha, and follows the guidelines below.

4. Do not break up others' manaʻo with your responses. Please respond at the end of their text.

5. Keep it decently short. If possible, try to make one point at a time. Or at least do not let loose a barrage of ukupaila arguments that anyone (especially me) may feel obligated to respond to. I am not a fast typist, and I want to be sympathetic to others who are squeezing this work into their crazy busy lives.

6. Don't be afraid to ask honest questions. No one should feel stupid for asking something they donʻt know, even if you don't think it's "politically correct" to ask.

7. Have fun. If youʻre not, get off the damn computer, go take care of yourself or jump in the ocean or something. Your health and happiness are important to me, and should be to you, too.

---

JTM and the Morgan Report

Arjuna:Aloha, Laualoha, and thanks for your comments on my talk page. Just a heads up that if you're not already tracking it, I made some edits to the Morgan Report page, and could use your help in monitoring (JK, I know you will, so I need not even ask! -- hope you agree they are good faith edits, and meticulously cited). In any case, I am happy to send scanned PDFs of all those references to the both of you as we move forward in making the articles more NPOV. But first, L, you have to email me so I know how to contact you (go to my talk page and there will be an options somewhere that says "Email this user"; a desire for anonymity on both sides will be respected). I look forward to hearing from you (and from JK). Cheers, Arjuna 07:30, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Laualoha:Mahalo, Arjuna...so far so good. I really appreciate your efforts to find some ground closer to the center. As for the email, I've tried, but I just can't seem to get it. Any ideas? Aloha,--Laualoha 18:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Arjuna:Aloha, Laualoha. Long time no see. I noticed your recent edits to the Morgan Report article, which I support, but there are a couple of unsupported statements that should have some citation in order to prevent challenges to the material. You probably already know this, so apologies if I'm telling you what you already know. Specifically, the sentences that Cleveland was "under pressure" and that "arguably coerced", etc. I don't doubt that these are accurate, just that they are certain to be challenged by certain other editors (regarding which, btw, if you haven't noticed, JK or his clone is back under another name (sockpuppeting?) and stirring things up again on some of the other articles -- we could use your help there as well.) Anyhow, I'd be happy to help, and again, I support your changes, just trying to help make sure they are supported so that they stick. Cheers, Arjuna (talk) 20:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

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Aloha for All: Anti-native?

Jere:E kala mai, Laualoha, this is your page, you can say whatever you want, but your characterization of Aloha for All as an "anti-native" group is hurtful. The mission of Aloha for All is to fight for the civil rights of all people in Hawaii, regardless of race, and to remove racial restrictions from existing government programs so that all people can benefit from them regardless of their genetic background. You may feel that they are misguided in their application of the idea of equality for some reason (arguably good and noble reasons), but I assure you, the intent of the organization is a positive one. --JereKrischel 17:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Laualoha: Sorry it hurts. I really am, you know; it is not my intention to cause pain to anyone when they are working for what they truly believe is right. And I believe that you are sincere that the intent is a positive one. However, the actions of the organization, like the "Grassroot Institute" and its counterparts, are very clearly anti-native. It is as though they do not want there to be such a thing as native in the world, just because they don't qualify for this particular definition. And you gotta admit that there's some serious irony when a bunch of extremely wealthy, mostly white settlers with huge political power start screaming that the population with the single lowest economic, health, education, and freedom (as in, not currently incarcerated) rates are oppressing them.--Laualoha 22:33, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Jere: Aloha e, but I am not extremely wealthy, nor am I a white settler, nor do I have huge political power - those people are OHA :). Perhaps if you had suggestions on how GRIH and Aloha for All could be pro-native, without giving up their cause to eliminate race-based discrimination, we could all get along. Is there any way to be pro-native without discriminating on the basis of race? Would a hula program open to all races be pro-native? Or a olelo Hawaii program open to all races be pro-native? Could I do anything pro-native without first looking at the genetic background of a participant in the program? If you can offer suggestions on how the two can be reconciled, I promise I will work on those issues in my own civil rights activism, and perhaps we both can build GRIH and Aloha for All into organizations of pride for everyone. --JereKrischel 02:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Laualoha: Jere, you may not be rich, white and powerful, but the most vocal people in AFA/GRIH are...

I have moved the rest of this discussion to the following page:/Aloha For All Discussion -- ctd.. Please note that it is important to me to keep reply postings generally short in length, for the benefit of anyone who chooses to try to read the page. Mahalo!--Laualoha 22:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Aloha/Bonjour Laualoha, Did you mean to create /caption_note? I moved it to Native Hawaiian Reorganization Act (and deleted some speedy tags) but I am not sure whether you meant it as an article and just need to work on it, or if it might have been something for user space. Anyway, let me know and if it is a mistake I guess you could request deletion yourself with {{db-author}}--Slp1 23:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

That should be fine; mahalo. --Laualoha 19:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Compromise

Thank you for your detailed comments on the Talk:Legal status of Hawaii page. I've changed "peace keepers" to troops, hopefully that is sufficient - and I've replied to most of the other notes. Some of them are moot, since we removed the photographic evidence section, but others probably require more discussion. We can break those out as need be.

Can you look over my recent changes, and see if there is anything particularly objectionable about how I partitioned the history section? I think once we get a firm grip on the structure, we'll have an easier time working out specific sections.

Mahalo! --JereKrischel 20:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Legal status of Hawaii

Hi Laualoha. I left some comments at the talk page there. I think your efforts to bring NPOV to the page are admirable. It's an uphill battle for people who missed the "sovereignty train" that pulled out of Western stations without regard to which locals managed to jump on board. I face very similar problems at most of the articles related to Palestinians. I hope the comments I left are helpful. It's not my area of expertise (though I once did write a paper on U.S. expansionism and its infiltrations of Hawaii and the Philippines in high school). I will pop in from time to time to see how things are progressing, but do let me know if you need anything else. Tiamut 11:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Aloha Laualoha. I'm happy that the citations may be useful to you. If you ever need anything else, let me know. Mahalo or as we Palestinians sometimes say, Salamaat. Tiamut 16:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, wow. The talk page for this article is intense. It kind of overwhelmed me. What kind of help are you looking for? I've been fairly busy, but can try to help in small ways. Aloha! Murderbike 08:12, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Water under the bridge

Aloha, Laualoha, no worries on the sock puppet thing. I know sometimes it's hard to tell when something fishy seems like it's going on. You can delete the section if you like, or leave it up, I'm just glad that we've maintained and further established our common trust.

BTW, I'm in town for the next few days, and if you'd like to get together sometime, jam, talk story, and maybe hash out a few compromises in person, please feel free to email me at [email protected]. I'm leaving friday, but will be around wednesday and thursday. Mahalo! --JereKrischel 23:59, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Aloha, Laualoha, saw some of your recent edits on Republic of Hawaii, and I think we'll need to work on that together too - I haven't reverted anything, but I've got significant issues with a bunch of those edits. I'll hold off until we can arrange some time together directly. Mahalo! --JereKrischel 19:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, mahalo.--Laualoha 20:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Tandem editing

Jere: Howzit, I think I have some time tonight if you wanted to try give me a call. Ring me when you're free, and we'll see how much we can get through. Aloha! --JereKrischel 00:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Laualoha: Sorry, this weekend's kinda out. My son was in a bad skateboard accident Thursday, and that's taking up all the time not swallowed by music & baby lu'au (I have kuleana at 2 of them!) work. But I really do want to get through this stuff -- mahalo for asking. A weekday evening (or mid-afternoon -- I want to be respectful of your advanced timezone) would be best for me. I have some work stuff & meetings scattered around, but I'm sure we could find something. Let's limit it to one hour (for all our families' sake); if there's still stuff left that we're making progress on but not thru the impasse with, we can try again or decide what to do. How does that sound? We should put it out there to others who have been in this struggle too, in case anyone wants to participate. The goal is to negotiate some language we can live with, to end the reversion war we were in, and prevent another one. Right? We should keep in mind that nobody but us is bound by any agreement we make, and that this might not be "final" even for us, if something new comes up. However, I think we can go a long way toward peace, which we all need right now. Yeah? Aloha, --Laualoha 18:32, 15 September 2007 (UTC) p.s. the main pages in question are Legal status of Hawaii and Republic of Hawai'i, right? If we get through all the stuff on these (small miracle, but not impossible), we can work on the sticking points in some of the others...

Mahalo for your note!

Thank you for your sweet note, Laualoha! Appreciate the support as a GLBT person, and of course a Kane'ohe neighbor! (Altho for the next few months I'm stuck on the mainland!) Looks like you've been "doing battle" as well with the one and only JereKrischel... exhausting, isn't it? (No offense meant, Jere!) I'd be interested in your experience you mentioned in standing up for GLBT youth... you can also always email me direct at [email protected]. Mahalo nui loa! --Kai

--Kaihoku 17:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, what a sad story! I'll bet you could have challenged the firing, if you had wanted to. The important thing, in the long run, is that you did the RIGHT thing! You absolutely did. And the kids you helped will be forever grateful and changed for good. So THANK YOU -- MAHALO NUI LOA for that!!!

And... Can you believe that Mike Gabbard now thinks he's a Democrat! Someday that guy is going to have to answer to his higher power for all the pain he has caused GLBT people and others. Aloha to you, Laualoha!

Kaihoku 17:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar

I wrote to you on my talk page but thought I would copy the comments here anyway.

Thanks Laualoha. I am glad that you found my intervention there helpful and hope to be back soon. Tiamut 10:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I think it's wonderful that you two are going to meet in person as you indicated on the talk page. Both of you seem to be great people who hold passionate views on this issue but you both have shown the ability to engage in reasonable discussion despite your differences. It's very heartening. Mahalo! Tiamut 10:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm learning to take some of my own advice. ;) Tiamut 01:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Laualoha, many thanks for the nice words and the Barnstar (my first is always the best!). Anyhow, just doin' my job -- callin' 'em as I see 'em! I've been out a few days with a heavy workload, but trying to catch back up. Mahalo again and aloha, Arjuna 08:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to WikiProject LGBT studies!

Hi, Laualoha, welcome to WikiProject LGBT Studies! Message moved here for space purposes. Eo LGBT Braddahs and Sistas!

-- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 00:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Iorana Rapa Nui

Hi welcome to the ongoing muddle that is the Easter Island/Rapa Nui page. As the island has just gained extra autonomy within Chile, whilst retaining Chilean voting rights, I'm not sure that either governed or controlled now make sense. As I see it the relationship between Rapa Nui and Chile is now more analogous to that between Hawaii and the USA, what do you think of something like Rapa Nui is a self governing special territory of Chile?Jonathan Cardy 12:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I do not know enough to say whether this is appropriate or not. However, if it is like Hawai'i, "controlled" probably would apply, since it is certainly not self-governed. "Self-governing" would be an inappropriate term if the Rapanui people are not able to exercise true self-determination; it is my understanding that they do not even now have this level of independence. However, I think anything is better for the time being than to call Rapa Nui a "Chilean Island". Aloha, --Laualoha 20:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Aqqaluk Lynge

A tag has been placed on Aqqaluk Lynge requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article appears to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Isarig 21:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Request for Comment

Aloha! I'm really beat right now from working all day, but I posted a link to the RfC at both the Indigenous Peoples wikiproject and the Systemic Bias one. I'll try to take a good look at the RfC myself tomorrow. Cheers! Murderbike 05:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ouch! L, I'm sorry if you were offended, but I hope you will re-read what LarryQ wrote and see if you might have mis-interpreted what he said. I do find myself betwixt and between here. On the one hand, I could not agree more that what took place in 1893 was completely illegal, sleazy, and wrong in just about every way I can think of. On the other hand, the system of international law that now exists (well, kinda, in theory -- an ineffective U.N./ICJ system that allows itself to be run roughshod over by G.W. Bush notwithstanding) wasn't around then, so for lack of a better way to put it, it was legal to steal stuff back then... (Arjuna's comment continues here, along with my response. Sorry, I'm kinda doing this to all long comments on this page; I don't want to repress anyone's mana'o (including my own), but page flow is important to me...)

Arjuna, I was not offended by what you said (although I disagree with many of the points in your last comment; I'll address them in the linked page); I was offended at Larry's comparison of those working internationally against the U.S. occupation of Hawai'i to "flat earth" theorists and "the-Holocaust-didn't happen" people. If Larry is not calling the argument for U.S. illegality (which, I might add, contains so many variations that to argue against the whole thing is a little fringe in my own opinion)"fringe", why even make this comparison? Aloha, --Laualoha 20:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for note Arjuna808. I appreciate your efforts. I agree with, "what we are saying (I think -- not trying to speak for LQ) is simply that the perspective you represent should absolutely be presented, but in accordance with Wikipedia policies, i.e. within the context of the international and domestic majority view. I promise you that I will advocate that your view is represented fairly." I think the question actually is whether Wikipedia's rules should be altered to reflect views which have been disenfranchised by history and a biased international legal system. As the rules are now, I think I am correct. However, maybe it is time to move towards a reconsideration of these rules? LarryQ 16:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually I don't see why any change in policy is needed for this particular situation (although I think some overall changes are needed in order to better counter bias). This article is ABOUT an argument. When one writes about an argument, both sides should be presented equally, with a fair, contextualizing description. This is what I am trying to do, but I don't seem to be able to get to it because I keep running into these diversions about "undue weight". Aloha, --Laualoha 20:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

For space purposes, the rest of this lengthy discussion has been moved here. Mahalo!

Greetings. I'm not sure if I ever thanked you for your feedback and responsiveness, so: thanks! If you feel there are any unresolved issues between us, I'd like to clear them up when you get a chance. Good luck with everything. HG | Talk 21:12, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up

Aloha Laualoha. Keif Halic? (That's Arabic, for "what's your situation?" or less literally, "how are you?") Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I'm going to move my comments out of the involved parties section to the section below. This was suggested to me by HG who pointed out that as mediators, we should try to make clear our distance from involvement in the actual dispute - as in, we're not invested parties, even if we obviously do approach this subject with our own biases we build out of our life experiences. Again, I'm totally sympatheitic to the frustration you are feeling right now. I encounter it so often myself at the pages related to my own people. (You should check out the RfC at Talk:Palestinian people to get a sense of what I'm talking about or anything else on that page for that matter.) In any case, I just wanted to let you know I appreciate where you're coming from and what it means to feel righteous rage. In getting your points across for the editing of the article though, it's best to try to put it aside as often as possible (and as painful as that may feel). And I know you're not alone in this, it's a dynamic that gets created in the discussions between you Jere which stray a little too close to home - as per the nature of the subject. But let's focus on the article, finding reliable sources and getting them represented in the article. Let's start making a list of sources and issues that need to be included that are not currently there or are there but not sourced. We can get through this and have a really great article representing all the nuances and complexities and different viewpoints on the issue that the reader can really get a full picture of what it under discussion from. Cool? Tiamut 22:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I hear you. I'll try a little harder with the aloha thing, since I'm supposed to be good at it. Mahalo again. Aloha, --Laualoha 00:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Ka Hsaw Wa

Aloha! I'm really happy that the new Category I created for Burmese democracy activists is starting to fill up. It was great to discover the new article you created on Ka Hsaw Wa, about whom I knew nothing before reading it. Please take a look, I made a whole bunch of "tweaks", as well as creating section-headings and moving a couple of passages. Seeing as you're the sole author, I should also mention that there were a couple of sentences in the paragraph re the Unocal lawsuit that need your attention. Mahalo, wonderful to make your acquaintance! Aloha from the Sierra foothills in CA, Cgingold 23:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Section linking

Linking to a section within a page is aomplished by using # between the page name and section name. It works within or across pages. So Hawaii#Etymology, as an example. Rmhermen 15:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Smile

LarryQ has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

TTS and vanity publication

Aloha Laualoha. First of all, thanks for your email and pardon my slow reply -- promise to do so now that I've got some other things out of the way. Hey, I need your help on something. The discussion between JK and myself on Talk:Republic of Hawaii has ramped up and reached an impasse re: whether or not TTS's book is a vanity publication (and thus not a reliable source under Wikipedia guidelines). The discussion isn't too long (although now we're starting to repeat ourselves) so shouldn't take long to peruse. Care to weigh in? Mahalo, Arjuna 09:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Temporarily ON PAUSE

Notice: I'm up against a deadline right now, and so may be out of it for a few more days. I'll try to check email if somebody needs to reach me. Aloha, --Laualoha 19:59, 10 October 2007 (UTC) OK, it was more than a few days. I'm on the road, writing from a stopover @ Las Vegas Airport. But I'm still here!--Laualoha 07:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

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LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered sometime in January 2008 (UTC). SatyrBot (talk) 23:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Overthrow article (again)

Hi Laualoha, long time no hear and hope you're well. As you may or not be aware, we have another (new?) "difficult" editor, Yosemitesam25, bent on pushing a very Grassroots Insitute-like POV on the Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom article. I and certain other editors feel it may either be an old friend or a new one, but suspicious of his/her possible WP:COI issues. See User_talk:Yosemitesam25 for details. Certainly their edits have been highly tendentious, and your help and input would be very welcome. You may wish to refer to the back and forth discussion on the article's talk page. Given where things are (YS seems unamenable to logic if you ask me) it would have more weight if further reverts to his reverts had the consensus of other editors, so again, your help would be appreciated. Aloha and mahalo, Arjuna (talk) 02:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered by SatyrBot around 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC) SatyrBot (talk) 17:44, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome Back

Hi, nice to see you editing again. I have not been very active recently. It appears that all the old Congressional articles in need of writing have been done. Life has got in the way and I have yet to find a new Wikipedia niche. Your recent edits to the Legal status of Hawaii article look good. Could you check out the Legal status of Texas and Legal status of Alaska articles and edit them if you see ways to improve them? I think I will revise the opening paragraph in the same way that you have the Hawaiian one.

BTW, I visited Hawaii recently for a conference. I am very happy to have finally been there. It was beautiful. LarryQ (talk) 22:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

This newsletter was delivered by §hepBot around 16:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC). ShepBot (talk) 16:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter (July 2008)

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WikiProject Hawaii

Laualoha, I just noticed you aren't a member of WP:HAWAII. Is there any way I could persaude you to join? We could certainly use your help and guidance. Viriditas (talk) 09:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Viriditas! I'm honored to be asked -- mahalo. There are a coupe of things I feel funny about, though, to tell the truth...I think the main one is the intro to the project, which reads, "We are a board of editors committed to the proper exposition of information about the U.S. state of Hawaiʻi and Hawaiiana throughout Wikipedia". For me, there's a bit of a catch-22, since I don't feel comfortable joining with wording like that but do not feel that it's appropriate for me to propose a change, since I'm not a project member. I think I would feel better if it read "Islands of Hawai'i" instead of "U.S. State". Or something a little more balanced than the current description, anyway. I also feel a little funny about the word "Hawaiiana", which I have never yet heard used by any Kanaka Maoli (well, except, um, when I was in elementary school at Kamehameha...([:), but that I can live with. Sorry if it seems nitpicky...I really do appreciate your asking!!--Laualoha 09:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Have you looked through the page history? I'm not sure, but I think Gerald wrote it. Did you ever discuss this with him? I'm glad you brought this up, because I've started a thread here. I'm looking forward to seeing your comments there. Viriditas (talk) 10:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Vote

Hi Laualoha, thanks for the shout on my talk page. Hope all is well with you too and don't get swept away too far! Aloha, Arjuna (talk) 10:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC) P.S. Just read your reply to V above. Despite your political position on the status of Hawaii -- and I respect your position even though I disagree -- I hope you'll still exercise your right to vote in November. I was listening to something on NPR today about some singer in Canada who wrote a song about wishing he could vote in the American election since the President has such an impact everywhere, but no one else gets a say in who that is. So hope you'll take the opportunity even if you didn't ask for it. Consider voting for those other countries' voters, if nothing else. Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now, and hope you'll take this in the aloha spirit that I intend. Cheers, Arjuna (talk) 10:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Arjuna! No worries about the soapbox. And yes, I plan to vote...this time. Although I would have it differently (and will do what I can to change it too, damnit! ((;), the fact is that my homeland is currently under occupation by the U.S., and I think that even that much of a relationship kind of gives me an obligation to do what I can to keep the really bad monsters in their pots. If my neighbor's house is on fire and the truck's not coming, I'll join the bucket brigade regardless of whose bucket I'm grabbing -- just cuz I can. Thanks for asking, & nice to hear from you! Aloha,--Laualoha 10:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii Superferry

Since I've got your attention, I was wondering what you thought about the POV tag I've had on this article since May. I would like to remove it; could you take a look at it? Obviously, there is a lot missing-that's why I added the tag in the first place. But, if you think it is acceptable as it is, I'll remove it. Viriditas (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...very interesting article. Kind of hard to follow the debate on the talk page -- it makes my head hurt, to tell the truth! Honestly, I don't think I understand all of the editing issues enough to have strong feelings regarding your tag. I'll look some more later. I do see what you mean overall -- more information would definitely be helpful, and a good understanding of the issues is crucial -- but the tag is your call. It seems to me that at this point the addition of a few more facts would be the thing that would make the biggest difference. --Laualoha 11:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Ummm..oops, never mind! Just read it again, in a little more detail. Leave it up. Mahalo,--Laualoha 11:14, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiian sovereignty movement

I can't recall any other article on Wikipedia experiencing this kind of problematic, long-term tagging. Frankly, I'm sick of it, and before I delete the entire article and start from a stub, I would like to give you the opportunity to solve the problem. I have started a new article from scratch at Talk:Hawaiian_sovereignty_movement/Temp and would encourage you to expand it, if you are able. Note, you will need access to many of the sources listed in order to effectively contribute. On the plus side, I have found many of the sources online, and I have linked them accordingly. Thanks in advance. Viriditas (talk) 08:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'm with you on starting over. I can't personally commit to the full effort this will take, but I will help where I can. Aloha, --Laualoha 08:40, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. In that case, would you be able to look over the temp page outline and make some recommendations? Viriditas (talk) 08:42, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I'll try. Hey, since it's a temp page, you won't be offended if I try some wording tweaks too, would you? I don't care if you tweak them back, just as long as it's fair and not a mess in the end. Aloha, --Laualoha 08:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

As I said yesterday on the project page, please go ahead and edit freely. I'm not a soup nazi editor. I'm looking forward to your edits. Viriditas (talk) 08:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok....if it's okay, let's also use some italicized inline comments a bit on this temp page...We can delete them as we go; I think that will make it easier to understand when there's a specific question.--Laualoha 09:01, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

You know what? That's a great idea. Even better use the highlight feature to make the comments stand out. I'm going to be offline for the next 1.5 hours, so please make do without me. Viriditas (talk) 09:03, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I've just added our names to a maintained template on the talk page.[3] I'm trying to get the ball rolling, but if you don't like it, feel free to remove your name. Viriditas (talk) 12:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

It's fine.--Laualoha 23:46, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Task force

Would you be interested in forming a task force that collaborates with multiple projects to improve articles on Native Hawaiians? Viriditas (talk) 15:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I would be interested, but like I said I don't know how much I'll be around -- I'm at the mercy of a crazy schedule. Also, I don't want to dis the Hawai'i project people, who work hard at what they do -- I know that's not your intention since you're part of the project, but since I'm not, I want to be clear about that. I also don't really know how a task force works, to tell the truth....--Laualoha 06:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

In this particular case, it would be a joint collaboration between the biography project, the ethnic groups project, and perhaps a few more. Viriditas (talk) 10:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Category:Native Hawaiian

When you have time, I would like your opinion on the structure of this category (and its descendents). Viriditas (talk) 15:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I truthfully don't know if I know enough about categories to evaluate it. I tried to create an "indigenous activists" category once, but it got deleted, so I guess I must have done something wrong. I like the contents of the "Native Hawaiian People" sub-category, though I kind of wish it had a different title...mahalo for asking!--Laualoha 07:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, well thanks for taking a look. What title would you like to see in place of "Native Hawaiian People"? Viriditas (talk) 10:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I always pull toward the names that native peoples have for themselves (in this case, Kanaka Maoli) but I do think that that does need to be balanced with clear communication with people who know nothing about the subject matter -- who are, after all, the true "beneficiaries" of Wikipedia. So I don't know...maybe one of us (or somebody else) will come up with something if we think about it...Laualoha 23:51, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Smile

Viriditas (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Cheers, and Happy editing!
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Mahalo!!!--Laualoha 23:52, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii#History

The Kingdom of Hawaii existed from 1810 until 1893 when the monarchy was overthrown by native born Hawaiians of American ancestry.

This doesn't make any sense. Viriditas (talk) 12:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, check out what I wrote and see if it's any better. It is a tricky sentence to word concisely.Laualoha 23:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Marhaba/aloha

Sweet Laualoha. Thanks for the note. I hope you are doing well and enjoying your latest spurt here. I have been on a bit of a break myself, though I keep popping in to my two cents here and there. If you ever need anything and I can be of assistance, do let me know. Warm warm regards, Tiamut^talk 12:34, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

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Mahealani Perez-Wendt

Thanks for this article - could you please reference it? Ironholds (talk) 20:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

There are reference links throughout the article , but I would appreciate any contributions of additional formatting help you are able to make. Mahalo!--Laualoha 01:16, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks; see WP:CITE for how inline citations work properly. Regards, Ironholds (talk) 01:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

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Merge Legal Status of Hawaii with Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement

Hi Laualoha. Long time since I have had an opportunity to interact with you here. I hope all is well. Unfortunately, your recent edits to the Legal status of Hawaii article has seriously unbalanced it. A minority viewpoint has been given undue weight and appears to be slant of the article now. However, rather than go in and start trying to balance it again a better thought has occured to me. This article really should be merged into the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. There really is no need for two separate articles which are in essence about the same thing. The Legal status of Texas article has a merge request right now and it is likey to be merged into the Texas Secession Movement article. It would make since to do this with the Hawaiian articles here as well. Take care. LarryQ (talk) 16:45, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Aloha, Larry! Good to see you!

Well, I certainly disagree with the "undue weight" POV, but I am willing to discuss individual issues if you would like to. I have not, to my knowledge, said anything factually incorrect, irrelevant, or exclusionary to my knowledge. I do need to point out that my recent efforts are primarily cleanup efforts on a horrendously slanted article, and that the viewpoint that was presented before my cleaning is broadly considered an extremist minority view here. I am willing to consider your proposal -- this article was one that I felt was unnecessary to begin with, and was only created as a POV piece to begin with. It sounds like a lot of work to do a merge, but if you have a proposal for how this could be done without making a mess of the main Hawaiian Sovereignty article, please let me know. Also, in the time that has passed, things have changed a lot in regard to the question of this being a "minority viewpoint", and I must say that I no longer agree that it is. Have a great day!! --Laualoha 21:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what you want to do. I think a merger can be done but a deletion may be in order as well. What do you think is the best route? Sorry, you are still hawking a minority view. But I can live with that as long as we can get this fixed. If anything, Hawaii v. Office of Hawaiian Affairs, (2009) 9-0 Supreme Court decision further marginalized your legal argument and a large majority of state citizens would never vote to leave the USA. Hence, minority view. However, would be happy to debate this with you over at the proper talk page. I am getting old, I could use a good Wikipedia debate to keep my mind sharp. Take care. LarryQ (talk) 17:10, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, Larry -- I do not have time for a lengthy debate but am certainly am willing to discus any particular points you find objectionable. And I am not making an argument -- this is Wikipedia, not a debate forum. PLEASE respect that. I am presenting basic information that readers may have been previously unaware of. Please keep in mind that broad unawareness does not constitute majority consensus, and I respectfully ask that, to save us both time and stress, you please research the details of what you are speaking about before bringing them up. For example, please look up the Hawaii State Supreme Court case that was being appealed in the USSC decision you referenced, and please please PLEASE avoid speculative, possibly legally irrelevant assumptions such as "a large majority of state citizens would never vote to leave the USA", which you have no data on nor ability to address for the complex issue that it is, not to mention the fact that it has nothing to do with LAW, which is the subject of this article. Please let me know what you find objectionable, and I will try to work with you on finding suitable framing. Neither a merge nor a deletion is appropriate at this time, however. I suggested both of these options repeatedly in the past, as you should recall when I was struggling with other editors in the past -- you were involved then, as I recall. Now, however, I have done a lot of factual fixing, and would prefer to continue my present route, as the page is now showing true potential as a factual resource on the subject. Take care, and aloha! --Laualoha 22:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I have no interest in debating either. Don't try and tell me you are not editing from a minority viewpoint and there will be no arguments just clear and easy working together to make more changes from a non-POV style reflecting current worldview on the matter with some acknowldgement that their is a minority view that differs. This can be easy even when "facts" are often confused with personal beliefes reinforced by those around us. However, I think the best option is merge or delete and I will explore those first. Take care. LarryQ (talk)

Larry, it does not matter what my personal viewpoint is. I am presenting basic, well-referenced historic facts in a manner clearly aligned with the Five Pillars of Wikipedia, not an argument. If you are suggesting that the page be deleted or merged with another already-too-lengthy page (which is about a social movement, not law) because you disagree that those facts should be presented, there is a very serious problem. I have invited you to discuss specific issues that you see. It is your responsibility to articulate those issues if you have a problem. If you cannot do this, please do not touch the page -- it will only create an undue struggle that takes away from the work before us. If you want to continue this discussion, let's move it to the article's talk page so that others who may get involved can clearly follow what is happening, ok? Again, good to see you! Take care and aloha - --Laualoha 23:57, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I will move the conversation to the appropriate talk page. Just to let you know, I don't want conflict. I am going to go slow and not get dramatic or resort to lots of reverting. I think a merge of the two articles is possible and I will create a version of what a merged page would look like before I propose it. Please give it due consideration. The Legal status of Hawaii article was a mistake and I think the Sovereignty article can be made better. I have been to Hawaii twice since our last dispute here presenting papers at the Hawaii International Conference on Education. When I visit Hawaii next time, I am hitting the big island and going to see the volcanoes! Hawaii is one of my favorite places in America and I care about it just like you do. My wife and I have this on our short list of places to retire to when the time comes. Let's stick the spirit of Aloha and I am sorry if my reintroduction here seems hostile. I just don't want a repeat and I know you don't either. See you in the talk pages. Best, LarryQ (talk)

Hi, Larry. If you want to do that, yes, I will consider it. And I do not want conflict either. However, please do keep in mind that these are two very different subjects. The Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement is just that: a movement. The legal status of Hawaiʻi is NOT a function of that movement. It is an international legal issue based on historic fact and legal standards. I do not see how these can be merged, but if you want to propose something, like I said, I will look at it and honestly consider it. I just don't want you to do a lot of work for nothing; I would feel bad! Hey, next time you come here, say hi, ok? Aloha --Laualoha 04:05, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Re (un)blacklist request

Gday (Oz for Aloha). We are trying to guess where your problem lies however, without a specific example we are fumbling in the dark. Can I ask to try and paste the problematic link at my meta talk page m:user talk:billinghurst and that will give us an indication of whether you are facing a local blacklist or a global blacklist. If it is WP local, it will paste at meta, and we can run checks to identify the issue. If it doesn't paste, then you should get an error message which you can copy and paste (to get that format wrap it inside <pre></pre>. Best of luck. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:17, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

G'day, billinghurst! Actually, it was blocked on your meta page too. Here is the message that I got at the meta page:

Spam protection filter The text you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a blacklisted external site.

The following text is what triggered our spam filter: http://www.google.com/url?

I'm a little confused as to how to use the "nowiki" tags, but here goes:

<pre>Your edit was not saved because it contains a new external link to a site registered on Wikipedia's blacklist. To save your changes now, you must go back and remove the blocked link (shown below), and then save. Note that if you used a redirection link or URL shortener, you may still be able to save your changes by using the direct, non-shortened link - you generally obtain the non-shortened link by following the link, and copying the contents of the address bar of your web-browser after the page has loaded. If you feel the link is needed, you can: Request that the entire website be allowed, that is, removed from the local or global spam blacklists (check both lists to see which one is affecting you). Request that just the specific page be allowed, without unblocking the whole website, by asking on the spam whitelist talk page. Blacklisting indicates past problems with the link, so any requests should clearly demonstrate how inclusion would benefit Wikipedia. </pre>

Mahalo nui again for all your help. Appreciate it! --Laualoha 20:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you see. There is the problem. google.com/url is blacklisted for the very pure reason of spam - that link would allow spammers to perform the very basis of link optimisation. And you know what, the link is utterly not necessary, it should be replaced by the proper link.

You were adding a link that you copied from a google search page. What I suggest you do is to do the search again, now click the link of the result, and get to the page that you want to use. Then you copy the link from the address bar of your browser, and use that in the reference. That should not block the link. Alternatively, you can copy the same link as that you were trying to insert, but you take away the very first 7 characters ('http://') of that link, and then paste it here on your talkpage. The link will not 'work', but we will convert the link for you.

I know this is all a bit technical, but I hope we will manage together to solve the problem. You see, the link was very legitimately blacklisted, and you were caught by it by accident. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 04:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I know this is pretty difficult,

As Beetstra says, the body of the url without the preliminary bits. For nowiki, it is just like wrapping anything inside open and close tags.

<nowiki>[[This wikilink does nothing]]</nowiki>

• [[This wikilink does nothing]]

— billinghurst sDrewth 12:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I think I've got it. I may be checking with you regarding other references (some were definitely not through Google), if that is okay. Mahalo nui loa (Thank you very much)! --Laualoha 20:38, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

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Edits to main Hawai'i page

Dear Laualoha,

I've twice reverted your edits to the main page. You are inserting sovereignty arguments in a biased, non-neutral way. There are other pages on which the various viewpoints re the overthrow can be laid out in detail. Inserting ONE viewpoint into the main article, and leaving out the others, is biased. There isn't room in the main article to go into detail. If you continue edit warring on this issue, I'll have to ask an admin to intervene. Zora (talk) 16:29, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Aloha, Zora! Sorry that you feel that way -- these really are simple historic facts, you know. I do understand that the majority of people on Wikipedia may not be aware of these things, and that for some folks, the concept of NPOV may be based on commonly held assumptions that they are used to. I am definitely open to working this out, and will do my best to stick to the facts. I certainly have no interest in an edit war, and have done no reversions myself at any time in this. I ask that you show reciprocal respect, and work with me on what specifically you find objectionable, rather than continuing to undo legitimate edits. I will do my best to accommodate concerns without losing the basic facts. I agree that the article should not be made lengthy, but pointing out that the majority of the population in Hawaii opposed annexation (without any of the details about what an incredible feat this was, as signatures had to be gathered by horse and canoe within just a few days!) is neither debatable nor POV, for example. I am certainly open to calling in admin assistance if needed, but I don't think we're there yet. How about just following Wikipedia:Assume good faith for a bit, and if necessary, Wikipedia:Dispute resolution? Also, let's move future discussions to the talk page for the article, ok? Have a great day, & aloha, --Laualoha 20:12, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

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A brownie for you!

You're AWESOME!!! Aloha! Uke-aholic (talk) 03:28, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Mahalo nui, Uke-aholic!! That's the nicest brownie I've had all year!! ♥♥ --Laualoha 07:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Helping with Tulsi Gabbard (formerly Tulsi Gabbard Tamayo) article

Aloha! I see that you've previously worked on the Tulsi Gabbard article, and that you're especially interested in coverage of LGBT issues. I thought you might want to know that I'm working on improving that article, especially with regards to her previous experience and her political views. I have a bunch of messy notes with sources, in case you want them so you can help add coverage of her stance on LGBT issues - let me know! Mahalo. Sumana Harihareswara 15:19, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Great! Aloha Sumana!! --Laualoha 17:05, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

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Wow, Dap solver is awesome -- mahalo Wikipedia!! --Laualoha 17:07, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Mediate

As a participant in WikiProject Alternative Views I invite you to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sorcha Faal (2nd nomination)[4]. For an entity such as this who has gained global noterity to even be considered for deletion is beyond my understanding.Kmt885 (talk) 09:13, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
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Personal infoboxes in relation to patriotism and nationalism

Hi Laualoha,

I saw your name on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Discrimination#Participants listing.

There is a discussion at Template talk:Infobox person#Citizenship suggesting a change of emphasis to a Citizenship entry from the Nationality entry.

The idea is to give more facilitation to Patriotism instead of Nationalism and also to allow more freedom of expression in regards to terminologies used.

Contributions are welcomed but may be worth checking last edit to check progress first :) Gregkaye (talk) 20:39, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

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