User talk:Ian Spackman/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Ian Spackman. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox Autostrada-it

Template:Infobox Autostrada-it has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Mhiji (talk) 00:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:RegioneIT (Cities and towns category)

Template:RegioneIT (Cities and towns category) has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. — This, that, and the other (talk) 07:09, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Rubygate

Hi Ian - i have nothing against moving Rubygate scandal to Rubygate, but when i created the article i first looked up Watergate in Wikipedia, and it took me to Watergate scandal...Have a nice day :) --Itemirus^{Message me!} 06:38, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Itemirus. I hope my instinct was right, and of course I won’t be remotely offended if anyone moves it back. I hadn’t realised that the Watergate affair was at Watergate scandal: perhaps because it was named after the pre-existent building complex? Or because there are things called watergates? I expect now someone will discover a genuinely jewel-encrusted rubygate that that needs an article – in an the Arabian Nights, perhaps. Or at Villa Certosa, where it opens on the sala bungissima. Best wishes! Ian Spackman (talk) 07:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

waiting your reply .....

But as I wrote to you: why you have modified my version of this page without knowing the details of this books/periodical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annuario_della_Nobilt%C3%A0_Italiana? Thanks --Contebragheonte (talk) 18:52, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Amanda Knox Movie

Before you revert the article again, please take a look at the talk page. I thought the source was very clear, and the article very faithful to it. However, if you have suggestions, please make them (either in bold edits or on the talk page). I'm just not sure why you're deleting it en masse as it is so clearly sourced. Anyway, I just thought I'd give you a heads up that I have put all the info (the language from the article and the language from the source) on the talk page.

See you there...LedRush (talk) 09:39, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

No mass reverts on my part: I just checked two or three assertions made in the article against the pages (or rather the single page) linked [ignoring the comments at the bottom of that page as not being reliable], and not finding them supported removed them. Perhaps I am missing something?Ian Spackman (talk) 10:15, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Windisch-Graetz et cetera

I have deprodded your PROD of Windisch-Graetz. The family was notable up to the early years of the last century - in fact, several of the people in the further reaches of his genealogical charts definitely are notable, but he seems to have a talent for never successfully linking to any of them - and deserves an article, but not the one that the apparent current family member has produced. I have therefore taken the alternative course of reverting the article to just before the point where User:M.Hugo Windisch-Graetz started editing it.

But thanks for your action. User:M.Hugo Windisch-Graetz seems to have been very busy across multiple language versions of Wikipedia recently, always with badly-produced, incoherent and exaggerated articles on his apparent relatives or himself - it really needs people to go through the articles he has edited, see which ones would still look notable if all his edits are removed and then collectively AFD the rest. PWilkinson (talk) 18:54, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Peter—that all seems very sane! Ian Spackman (talk) 21:28, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Lega Nord

Hi. About this, I think you didn't understand what I mean. LN is, before all, an autonomist party that is said to be populist especially by its opponents. Writing in the incipit "is a populist italian party" is, in the better case, a partial information because are absent more important ideologies and, in the worse, a non neutral point of view --Tia solzago (talk) 17:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Tia! Obviously it should say in the incipit that the Lega is autonomist, if it doesn’t already. I agree! (Whether it is essentially nationalist/separatist or regionalist/federalist is perhaps more complicated. I would have thought that in essence it was probably the former—like the Scots or Welsh Nats—, but they often seemed to claim the contrary, perhaps for tactical reasons. But populist? Undoubtedly: you only have to look at their posters and other propoganda, and at the vulgar manner of speech which their leaders habitually adopt. And, on the related issue of attitudes to ethnicity and race, on the British political spectrum they would belong to the far right: prominent members have habitually made statements which would have got them expelled from the British Tory party. And that, of course, relates to the issue of populism. Those are my impressions, anyway. (By the way I am not at all opposed to autonomist parties in principle—if I lived in Scotland I might well vote Nationalist.)

Those, of course, are just my views, and as far as Wikipedia is concerned entirely unimportant. But for reasons of NPOV the article does need to align itself with general descriptions of the party in mainstream, basically neutral, international sources. As an Englishman I find that the best-informed British mainstream news sources on Italian politics are the BBC (which has a commitment to avoiding bias as far as possible, even if it can’t always succeed), The Telegraph (right of centre, sometimes called the Torygraph), and The Guardian (left of centre, although it deserted Labour at the last election). Have a look at those sites and see how they tend to characterise the Lega in a handful of words. My guess is that you will find ‘populist’ as one of the most common terms used. (The most common will probably be racist/xenophobic/anti-immigrant.)

Anyway, happy editing! Ian Spackman (talk) 12:51, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

About Ortensio Faà di Bruno

Hello, Ian (could I call you so?): I am writing you since I want to say that I changed the comments on Ortensio Faà di Bruno Faà di Bruno disambiguation page. I was not able to find anyting on him but this link: also it seems that there are two distinct persons having this name. The only references I found on Google are replica of the disambiguation page. Let me know if there is any problem. Daniele.tampieri (talk) 15:17, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Daniele, and naturally call me Ian. I am always happy to know that someone other than the googlebot reads what I write! Unfortunately in those days we were not always very scrupulous in including citations, and I am afraid that I don‘t remember my sources for the wicked abate. (You were right to correct my ‘abbot’ mistranslation: probably he was something like a French abbé.) One of the sources could have been this: ‘Il conte Ortensio Faà, abate di Carentino, uomo di animo violento e bellicoso, nella notte di Pasqua del 1686, mise in atto una congiura contro il Marchese Moscheni di Bergamasco, assalendo il palazzo marchionale, ma riuscendo solo ad uccidere il figlioletto di sette anni del Marchese; fuggì nella repubblica di Genova e poi presso il convento dei Cappuccini di Ovada, dove morì impunito.’ Perhaps there was another which made it clear that this was not the only crime that he committed, and not the only time that he used benefit of clergy to escape civil justice. The source you found is interesting as it tells the same story with a different slant. There are a couple of tantalising snippets about him on Google Books: ‘… era [who?] entrato nella banda di un altro nobile, il cavaliere Ortensio Faà di Bruno, con cui aveva cercato d'uccidere il marchese Moscheni, penetrando nottetempo nella sua abitazione.’ And [apparently a quotation from a contemporary legal petition, though perhaps the book is a work of fiction]: ‘…[Sa]cra Congregazione del Santo Officio, di cui Vostra Eccellenza, è tanto degna parte, la causa criminale, sopra l’enorme assassinamento fatto a me et alla mia Casa nell’anno 1686 da Ortensio Faå di Bruno, Sacerdote e Prevosto di Carentino, Diocesi di Alessandria, ancorché mi giova lo sperare che in virtù del processo istruito da Monsignore Vescovo della medesima Città …’ I wonder if De’ Conti’s monumental (if often often rather dull) Notizie storiche della cittá di Casale e del Monferrato has anything to say. I’ll have a look, though I fear that google‘s indexing of the work is hit-and-miss, while his own index is frankly bizzare!

Certainly you are right that there were two Ortensios: the first, along with his brother (Ardizzone?) was a member of the sixteenth-century Monferrato senate: I think they were the first be created conti di Bruno. There are three family notables here in Luigi Cibrario (1860), including ‘Ortensio, pur senatore, fu investito nel fuedo di Bruno nel 1590, eretto poi in marchesato nel 1648.’

By the way, how do you pronounce Faà? Is it as two syllables, with the stress on the second? Or is the a lengthened? Or is it just the same as ‘fa’?

Best wishes! Ian Spackman (talk) 00:16, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

You are clever than me in using Google! :D :D Your analysis is quite comprehensive and correct: when you decide to work to an entry on Ortensio (or possibly the Ortensios), let me know. Concerning the pronounce of Faà, yes, I pronounce it as two syllables stressing the second one. Now let me make a question: are you interested in ancient Italian history? It seems to me that your knowledge of the field is higher than one would normally expect. All the best. Daniele.tampieri (talk) 07:00, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Lucedio Abbey

Why did you remove the category? I only sorted it.

Secondly, if you are putting Category:Paranormal places up for CFD, please follow the proper procedures at WP:CFD#How to use Cfd. Simply south...... trying to improve for 5 years 21:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I removed the category because it is the sort of nonsense (in my view) that can only bring Wikipedia into disrepute [we assert that there are paranormal places? Really?], and because I have seen no reputable, academically respectable sources which claim that the abbey a paranormal place. As for gardeners’ tools, yes I have a good few—perhaps we share a common interest? There are a number whose proper use is unknown to me. But I can assure you that I keep all of them well away from my computers. Best wishes, and happy editing! Ian Spackman (talk) 22:14, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

It’s rather like having a Category:Verified sightings of Elvis on the Moon. (I do hope that’s a red-link, but I am not entirely confident….) Ian Spackman (talk) 22:25, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Ian Spackman. You have new messages at Sitush's talk page.
Message added 22:07, 8 April 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Mariano_Hugo_of_Windisch-Graetz

Thanks for doing the additional revert on the above article. I don't think we're getting the message through to the COI user, although there have been attempts on his talk page and that of the article. - Sitush (talk) 13:33, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

While you were writing this message I replied to your comment on the talk page. I find it all rather mysterious. I think probably that he [the user, who may or may not be the subject] speaks no English. Decidedly a problem for an editor of the English Wikipedia! Ian Spackman (talk) 13:57, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Apologies for deleting the citation - I missed the point completely there. I'll see if I can find a better (ie: more direct) one some time. Love your cmt on the user's talk page re: German WP <g> - Sitush (talk) 16:29, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

No apologies needed: the un-sensational fact was rather buried in an article on more contentious matters. But I was finding it difficult to turn up anything on Papal Gentleman and thought that CNN was better than nothing–especially as it basically corresponded to what the article already said. Ian Spackman (talk) 16:36, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Your difficulties beg the question ... are Papal Gentlemen notable? I'm steering well clear of that one. Will see if I have any more luck than you, preferably without resorting to my rudimentary Italian. - Sitush (talk) 16:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

‘Are Papal Gentlemen notable?’ is a very good question. As far as I could make out it is an honour which one would be proud of having bestowed upon one, if one were part of the black nobility. But doubtfully notable from a WP standpoint. I couldn’t even discover how many of them there were; and I only came up with two references to him on the Vatican website (simply included among lists of people present at (probably fairly important) meetings). And as a genuine job, a bit like being a part-time, nail-painting receptionist, except that you may have the unpleasant duty of having to make polite small talk to the likes of Cherie Blair and her spouse when escorting them to the papal chambers. I suspect the notability element of being an ambassador of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (or whatever it is called exactly—nothing about him on their website that I could find, by the way) is rather similar: far less important than being the San Marino ambassador to Liechtenstein. I’ve nothing against the chap (the subject I mean, not the user)—there seem to be good things to say about him. But notable? I couldn’t convince myself of that. I suspect an AFD may be in order. Or simply a PROD, if that hasn’t been tried before. Perhaps (if user and subject are one and the same) he is having a mid-life crisis? Why this obsession to dump foreign language texts on the various branches of Wikipedia? All very odd, and one doesn’t want to be harsh. But…. Ian Spackman (talk) 17:40, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

P.S. He has a distinctly pretty wife, who used to act in telenovellas as a hobby, and a herd of water buffalo. Interesting, but not really encyclopaedic. I suppose.

You share my opinions. We're either both great minds or both very stupid. I know which of those I think applies :) I've done some searching and without "gay" in the search, Google returns 181 hits for ""papal gentlemen"/"papal gentleman". Some of those are not for the office, either, but rather a general (archaic) term for Catholics. There is only one book worth mentioning that looks into the subject (on one page), although that book is cited by others. Google Scholar comes up with next to nothing if cites are excluded. Got the feeling that both the chap and his office may be heading for AfD but I do not want to rush it for fear of becoming too involved in one of those dreadful religious debates where there is too much POV and not enough common sense. Not seen his wife but she may be more notable! - Sitush (talk) 17:56, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Thought you should know that my attempt to get the person blocked for vandalism after more ping-pong today has failed as, apparently, it is not vandalism. Since it is disruptive, I can only presume that the admin took a very narrow view. Not sure where to go next with this - content dispute? - Sitush (talk) 19:31, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Ouch! Well, since the page has been static since your last edit, 48 hours ago, my instinct is to hope that he will now remain as quiet here as he has learnt to on the Italian, German, French and Czech editions. I can see that how many (if any) of his incompetently red-linking genealogical tables should be included can be seen as a content dispute, rather than an issue involving vandalism. But surely dumping text in foreign languages (after receiving warnings not to) and also removing both citations and requests for citations (after receiving warnings not to) are vandalism? I’m going to keep my fingers crossed, for now. But if it starts again I would guess that asking for advice on the COI and Vandalism noticeboards would be sensible. There must be something to be done—those other Wikipedias have done it! Or AFD. Like you, I’ve been half hoping that something that clearly established notability would turn up. But it hasn’t, and I no longer expect it to. I would certainly now vote for deletion unless someone came up with strong arguments against. Ian Spackman (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The question after the recent events is: should I look at AfD. I note that the blocking admin also queried notability on AN/I, and that the ed. who found some additional sources for the foundation didn't deem them worthy of inclusion in the article itself. My gut feeling is that the entire thing should go as being, primarily, a vanity piece & one with little sourcing of merit. However, my heart says that the poor guy is no longer around to defend the article. It might have been the first "peep" out of him! - Sitush (talk) 00:24, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Annuario della Nobiltà Italiana

Hi Ian, I rollbacked the fake information introduced once again in the article by the same editor of the new Annuario. Could you please patrol? Many thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.113.152.181 (talk) 13:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

hey

I'm hoping you don't mean it has been me to most poison that talk page. I admit and apologize that I lost my cool seeing what this group tried to do, basically an ambush of the page and everything against the policies of wikipedia not being a democracy. I had noticed in the past that Noclador accused you and Supparluca of being sock puppets though. I've given up on understanding why these folks can not accept the compromised/shared solution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.139 (talk) 23:08, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

It's almost tragicomical that you fail to see the difference between his behaviour and Noclador's, Checco's, Dohn joe's, Patavium's... But at least you can cite Voltaire. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 16:38, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

I doubt if the admin understood the allusion – at any rate he didn’t reply. But the reference to Voltaire was very deliberate: tedious and longwinded as Icsunonove’s interventions may have been at times, they did not deserve to be censored. That is what happened: a disgraceful block. Noclador is a good editor, as is Checco. Dohn Joe and Patavium may or may not be good editors: I haven’t come across their work so cannot know. Ian Spackman (talk) 17:42, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

My point being: By saying without at the same time blocking practically everyone else who has ever contributed to that battlefield of a discussion you are suggesting that there might be a couple of regular "warriors" who participated on a similar level. Unfortunately you don't say who else falls in that category, and so someone could assume that you include the users I named above.

Anyway, I guess the reason for our differences in the perception of Icsunonove's interventions is that he regarded you as a kind of "friend". On the other hand, all the users whom he identified as "enemies" got insulted, harassed and hurt for years (pig, nazi, ethnic warrior, nationalist... someone could write a dictionary). His block was not a mean of censorship (as Checco and you put it), but a mere consequence of the observation that he wasn't willing or able to contribute moderately and without personal attacks to discussions (nobody was expecting friendliness and cordiality!). You may find this unfair, for me it's a relief. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 19:02, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:La Stampa logo.jpg

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Palaces

The palazzo article is the most vague I ever read! I think what you're telling me is that Ducal Palace, Urbino is not exactly a "palace"? I jumped on the similar categories for other countries, and I see listed there everything too, from mansion palaces such as Ca' Tron to public palaces such as Palazzo Pretorio, Cividale or Caserta Palace. Exactly as category:Palaces in Italy (perhaps I could agree with you for Milan's skyscrapers, but honestly I did not know where to place them...). If there's some difference, it should be introduced at a global level, not just to Italian entries just because the word palazzo is also (mis)used by Anglophones, whose sources are notoriously crappish (especially in spelling) about everything written in Italian. Anyway, I remain open to discussion as usual... let me know and good work! --'''Attilios''' (talk) 13:02, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Ciao Ian! Here's an excerpt from the palace article's very intro (boldface is mine):

In many parts of Europe, the term is also applied to ambitious private mansions of the aristocracy. Many historic palaces are now put to other uses such as parliaments, museums, hotels or office buildings. The word is also sometimes used to describe a lavishly ornate building used for public entertainment or exhibitions.

So I think we can apply to word "palace" to Italian palazzi... as I told you in the previous message, it seems just a matter of goat's wool stemming from the fact that English sources also use (improperly, from what I can see) the Italian word. Ciao and good work. --'''Attilios''' (talk) 13:21, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Non-Free rationale for File:La Stampa front page 2006-12-10.jpg

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/* External links */ Added an external link to a non-profit, non-commercial scholarly blog about Italian food historyFoodinitaly (talk) 20:35, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm still wondering why the external link to my scholarly blog about Italian food history was an inappropriate link. Thanks much for your20:35, 24 July 2011 (UTC)Foodinitaly (talk) feedback. Zachary Nowak (foodinitaly, www.foodininitaly.org)

Apologies, just saw the note you put under "Italian cuisine." That post was from my co-author, and I can't speak for it other than to say that you are correct in saying it is not scholarly. I will take the issue up with him, and not add more links until the issue is resolved. Thanks for your input and explanations. Zach — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foodinitaly (talk • contribs) 20:43, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Notification of Help desk thread

The thread Wikipedia:Help_desk#potentially_slanderous_comment relates to your comments at Talk:Italian cuisine#External links deleted. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for the good work on the introduction on List of Italian dishes! Would you care to have a look to Pasta too? (If you don't feel like it, don't worry). Have a nice day.--Dia^ (talk) 07:39, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

And thanks for your good work on the Italian cheese template: it looks much better now. I haven’t replied to your question on the talk page there yet because I keep changing my mind as to what I think, but I’ll try to put my thoughts together later today.

I’ll pass on the Pasta for now: today’s wiki-plan is to do (a) nothing at all, (b) a cheese stub or two, (c) a List of Italian donkey breeds, or (d) improving the article on San Maurizio al Monastero Maggiore, a church which I poked around in when I was in Milan last week. Best wishes! Ian Spackman (talk) 08:10, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Silvio Berlusconi

Hi Ian, re this edit, I think a summary section would be a good idea, I didn't do it myself because I lacked the time to commit to anything of that scale. If you could do this, it would be most appreciated. Regards, —James ^{(Talk • Contribs)} • 7:08pm • 09:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks James. I don’t see how I can find time to do anything before next Tuesday, but I’ll try to then if nobody has done it already. Cheers, Ian Spackman (talk) 16:33, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Reminder to self: try to do something about this one, too. Ian Spackman (talk) 19:29, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Music in Mantua

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Thanks for the notifications, Mike. A good idea to standardise these. I’ve recorded my (not very strongly held) views on the discussion page. Best wishes, Ian Spackman (talk) 23:48, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

		May you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
		It's the festive time of the year, and I wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! If you do not celebrate Christmas, may it be a peaceful time for you, and may the New Year bring you new hopes and good luck. Season's Greetings --&レア (talk) 18:07, 22 December 2011 (UTC)\|}

This is Theologiae (it's my new signature), I just wanted to pass by to wish you happy holidays!

Thank you so much for the strawberries! It's morning here, so I'll be enjoying them for my breakfast :-) Happy editing!--&レア (talk) 09:15, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

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"Tony Blair Faith Foundation Page" Ian – I am from TBFF would like to comply with Wikipedia’s spirit and policy and do not wish to “whitewash” or COI. That said, I would like to provide up-to-date information on our programmes (we have more than FGI) and update the page to reflect correct information about directors and trustees. I want to do this transparently. I appreciate you taking on board our changes to ensure page accuracy. Thank youSav555 (talk) 12:18, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:List of Italian cheeses TOC

Template:List of Italian cheeses TOC has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:32, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Breggia

Thread is at User talk:Schwyz#Breggia

Annuario della Nobiltà Italiana

Hi Ian, I rollbacked the fake information introduced once again in the article by the same editor of the new Annuario. Could you please patrol? Many thanks.

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Princess Marcella Borghese

Please revert my grandmother's name back to Princess Marcella Borghese. This is her married name which she preferred and was most known by. It is inappropriate to use her birth name as her main name under Wikipedia. For example, when one searches Princess Diana, her married name is the main name in Wikipedia, not her birth name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_diana As her grandson, and one who was very close to her, i have been overseeing her site recently and was extremely unhappy with the edits that were being made. It appears that someone from Borghese cosmetics has been using her page as an advertisement for their products and also included some false information about the ownership of the company. Please make this correction. I have contacted Wikipedia and they instructed me to first reach out to you but if the change is not made back, they have instructed me to inform them of this. If you are being instructed by a third part to make other changes, i would appreciate you first check with me as i beleive this third party has ulterior unethical motives. I would sincerely appreciate your cooperation. Lorenzo Borghese — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boardroom09 (talk • contribs) 20:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I take extreme umbrage at the suggestion that I might be ‘being instructed by a third part [sic]’. I am sorry that I am unable to give a sound translation of ‘umbrage’ into Italian, a word which your translating dictionary may be no better than my Collins-Sansoni at translating. The expressions to have at the back of your mind when trying to translate ‘umbrage’ include ‘porca madonna’ and ‘vaffanculo’. Forget ‘ombra’, although it’s cognate: we’re talking far more than an ombretta!

I imagine that we agree that the article as it stands is fucking useless. So WP:AFD might be a good place to take it.

Best wishes, Ian

Cosmetics on ANI

Hi, Ian. The block of ExcuseMeNYC has now had a coda on ANI. Pretty audacious, this! I should have been watching that page, but was not. Anyway, I admired your cogent questions here, but I don't suppose the user heard them. Late and soon, we waste our best material. Bishonen | talk 09:32, 4 June 2013 (UTC).

Belatedly (but intermittently failing to fail, or perhaps I mean the opposite [see above]): clearly your audacity in this matter was exactly what was needed. Certainly seems to have worked. On a faintly related issue I wonder whether you might keep a glance for a day or two upon Anna del Conte? I was too hard on Lorenzo and I am fairly sure that in this case the SPA with a COI [she works for Del Conte’s literary agency: assuming her username is kosher] is someone it would be good to keep as a Wikipedian. I’m not concerned to keep every jot and tittle of what I added to that article, but I always get worried when I think that someone has an agenda. And I also worry that I might over-react. Ian Spackman (talk) 13:28, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Edited the article and posted to the new editor's talk, edit conflicting you. Poor noob, first she gets nothing and then all that. ;-) Bishonen | talk 15:04, 26 June 2013 (UTC).

I almost removed the sentence you did, because it did stick out a bit. But then I thought perhaps she [Anna del Conte] does want to stick out a bit from we Anglo Saxons. But no problems over the removal.

More broadly, I do worry a bit about the situation of new Wikipedia editors. My first edit, as an anon, I remember vividly. I have no recollection as to which article it was, but certainly I thought there was something that should be added to it and I added it. Within five minutes, at the most, it had been changed, with the rather bald edit summary of ‘style’. I was furious! Had I not attended a fairly prestigious university to study English language and literature? Half an hour later I decided to check exactly the change that had been made to my ‘style’. Cripes! Someone had taken a contribution I had made and, without changing the meaning, had made it distinctly clearer. Hmmmn, this is really, really good. Of course it has never again happened so quickly. Not once. Ian Spackman (talk) 15:20, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Did You (Who?) Call?

Very odd. I keep getting told via a vivid orange notice at the top right that I have new messages. Presumably a WP software glitch. But if not, and you the sender are reading this, please try again: your first message must have blackholed. Ian Spackman (talk) 19:09, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

It seems to be a sitewide bug messing with our heads. Bishonen | talk 05:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC).

Thanks

for your great comment on the article Genovese sauce. Will look into the matter shortly. Sincerely, -Darouet (talk) 03:34, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Cheers – I liked the article. Ian Spackman (talk) 04:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Obscenity

Well, being dressed is not necessarily decent, or even innocent! Buggereau here is posibly the most pornographic artist of the 19th century, but his 21st-century fans are totally blind to it! Sleeves and socks and stocking and pointy red slippers may simply be clothes, or on the other hand, they may not! Amandajm (talk) 15:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Slipping the sock off, one feels, is only the start. (Or so W-A B hopes.) But it’s a little difficult to read this image with 19th-century eyes: I just see the sock as a condom. Ian Spackman (talk) 15:45, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I don’t disagree with you about Bouguereau, but there is something curiously (photographically) honest about about the image: he depicts her hatred (which hangs between boredom—natural in a sitter—and loathing) quite vividly. Ian Spackman (talk) 16:07, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, the honesty is extraordinary. But I think it is also part of the artistic game that he is playing. He was plainly abusing a couple of these girls, and painted all sorts of takes on that theme. No doubt some of his clientele would have recognised the expression on her face. Many of his paintings were overtly erotic portraits of young women. It is the paintings of children and young teens like this one that are really offensive. And while he when he wasn't doing this, he was painting saccharine-sweet Madonnas surrounded by angels. Yuk!

I just went off for a little stained-glass window trek..... (on the internet, I mean) ...Oh how I love early Clayton and Bell glass. The colour combinations are scintillating! But as its nearly 3.00 am, I ought to do a sudoko o two and turn in! Amandajm (talk) 16:45, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Explanation

Hi Ian, About the article Massimo Taccon I've deleted the templates because I added additionals citations and references from reliable secondary sources. Can you give me an explanation? Thanks < B.a.c.i.4. (talk) 22:07, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Certainly. In your recent series of edits[1] you added two items: a link to an OPAC entry for Massimo Taccon : Simmetrie: il colore, la linea, il segno, la superficie (a work which was already listed under the References section of the article) and a link to the archive of the Rome Quadriennale, demonstrating that it has a copy of the Meditavismo Critico manifesto. Let’s take these one by one.

Massimo Taccon : Simmetrie: il colore, la linea, il segno, la superficie

The text is written by Fabio Taccon (an author unkown to VIAF [2]) and published by La Taccon Arte. This seems hardly likely to be a work entirely independent of the subject of the article. The new link, certainly, gives credence to the existence of the text. But I fail to see how the text itself can be construed as representing the kind of independent coverage in third-party, reliable sources that is required to demonstrate the notability of the subject of a Wikipedia article. Indeed, curious to find out something about this publisher (so-called), googling "La Taccon Arte" takes me straight to this page, whose telling title reads: ‘La Taccon Arte art studio & Gallery - buy art of the italian "Maestro" Taccon Massimo Home’.

Furthermore, this seems to be an extremely rare book. It is unkown to WorldCat, [3] and not a single academic library in the UK has a copy.[4] The book is unknown to Google books,[5] and to Amazon.[6] Even eBay.it—a surprisingly good source for rare Italian books, or so I have found—knows nothing of it.[7]. Most tellingly, perhaps, the Italian National Library Service[8] is only able to locate one copy of this text, namely the one which your edit referred to in the Biblioteca della Fondazione La Quadriennale di Roma.[9]

link to the archive of the Rome Quadriennale [10]

The fact that a copy of the manifesto has been deposited here seems quite unremarkable, given that the archive contains information on more than 13,500 artists, groups and movements active in Italy over the last century. In practice, only a tiny fraction of those artists can be notable in the encyclopaedic sense. (That is not a criticism of the archive, of course: such collections are intended to contain a lot of stuff verging on junk, because who knows what revaluations there will be in the future? Some of the ‘junk’ will turn out to be precious.)

So I hope you will understand why I believe that the three templates {{Refimprove}}, {{Notability}} and {{BLP primary sources}} need to remain in the article for the time being.

By the way, from your edit history I see that yours is a single purpose account, and imagine that in editing the article on Taccon you may suffer from a conflict of interest. So you should probably follow up those two links and also read the Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide.

Thank you (or should that be tanti b.a.c.i.?), Ian Spackman (talk) 00:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Ian tanti baci anche a te... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.252.68.254 (talk) 01:53, 6 August 2013 (UTC) H T I I tuoi padroni sono già m. sai... H T I — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.252.68.254 (talk) 02:00, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Can anybody explain H T I? There aren’t many words in lo Zingarelli beginning with ‘H’. And indeed m. has me rather stumped.Ian Spackman (talk) 00:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to List of Milanese people may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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Arceri and Valerio Bianchini, ''La leggenda del basket'', Baldini Castoldi Dalai Editore, 2004), [http://books.google.it/books?id=WYvnfWsIA4EC&&pg=PA192 pp. 192–].</ref>

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 22:38, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

thanks to you too: fixed. Ian Spackman (talk) 22:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

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Società Ernesto De Angeli e C, a textile company manufacturing cotton prints<ref> Giorgio Fiocca, [http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/ernesto-de-angeli_(Dizionario-Biografico)/ ‘DE ANGELI, Ernesto’,
*{{ill|it|Carlo Erba (1884–1917)|Carlo Erba (pittore))}}{{spaced ndash}} artist<ref>Simonetta Nicolini, [http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/carlo-erba_

Not Expert

User Ian J, Spackman you are not an expert in Italian culture as you declare here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ian_Spackman Tiger woman11 (talk) 02:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

You are correct to say that I am not an expert in Italian culture, but incorrect to state that I claim such expertise on the page you link.

Anyway – your point is?

Ian Spackman (talk) 09:36, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

And where, might I ask, does your expertise lie? Who knows, it is quite possible that you could make a useful contribution to Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it. Ian Spackman (talk) 05:12, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Ingria

Hi, about the photo of Ingria (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ingria,_Piedmont) I think the photos I inserted (Ingria_ (TO) _-_Piazza.jpg) is better Representative of Ingria. The photo shows the church, the town hall, the square and the bell tower (recently renovated). In the old photo instead you see only the bell tower and the colonial house; personally I find this photo very bad.

McTALAO (talk) 10:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi McTALAO,

I preferred the original image not because it was a better photograph (it’s not) but because it shows our readers at a glance what must be the single most important thing about the place: it is in a mountainous region. Cheers, Ian Spackman (talk) 05:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Category:Buildings and structures in the Marche

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Proposed deletion of Virgilio.it

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April 2014

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Thanks - fixed. Ian Spackman (talk) 08:04, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

The citations are all but clear!

You've reverted my objections on Raeti stating that "the references were perfectly clear".

1. There is a technical issue: the reference's links point to the "Notes"; there is a "References" section below, but, it's merrily a list of the literature used, without a clear connection to the citations themselves. Some of the those items are linked to the respective Wikipedia articles rather to the relevant bibliographical informations. (No item is linked to a bibliographical reference, or to the source itself.) There is an item cited (as a "note") that hasn't been listed below, among "References".
2. All items listed as "References" lack publisher, place and any kind of bibliographical reference. Furthermore, some of them are marked as "(online)". So, why the links haven't been provided!???
3. Is there any official Wikipedia instruction about how to cite ancient authors, maps, encyclopedias etc.? In my view, have the citations been quoted by original text, that is in Latin or Greek, maybe it could be considered acceptable even if they are referenced just as "Livy V.33". But, a meaning of a citation in English depends strongly not only on the original, but also on its interpretation, that is - translation. So, the data like edition, publisher, year etc. and/or an appropriate bibliographical reference should be mandatory for ancient authors too.
4. The citations in Wikipedia should be verifiable. The citations referenced like in this article appear hard to verify, if verifiable at all. Kornjaca (talk) 02:27, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, Kornjaca, I seem to have overlooked your message. I’ll read it tomorrow, have another look at the article and reply. Best wishes, Ian Spackman (talk) 08:07, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Comune

Hi, Ian! I believe our paths may have crossed before, as I think that you, like me, sometimes edit articles on Italian topics. I noticed the change you made at Val Taleggio, replacing comuni with "communes", and it piqued my curiosity. I don't think "commune" is any longer the English word, though I'm sure it was in the past. My personal experience counts for nothing, but to me a commune is either a bunch of hippies in a Welsh sheep-farm, or something in French history; I would no more think of referring to the administrative district I live in as a commune than I would talk of going to Leghorn or The Marches. More to the point, I notice that our article here is at Comune; that comuni are listed in our List of comuni of Italy, which is actually a list of lists, each entitled Comuni of the Province of Foo. Those have between them been edited by a rather large number of editors; it looks as if there might be a sort of local consensus that we use comune as we do frazione, and as we do not use provincia or regione. Of course at the level of a single article it matters disappearingly little. Best regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:53, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Indeed our paths crossed yesterday on the article List of Italian cattle breeds—we must be among the few who watch that page! (I think I started the article on the piemontese breed, though it is the little Alpine ones—usually covered with flies, poor things—which I most enjoy meeting.) As to the comune issue I am really not sure what to think. I dislike leaving it in Italian because hardly any of our readers will know what it means. I don’t much like ‘municipality’ because as an Englishman I find it archaic—it reminds me of the municipal baths where I learnt to swim—and over technical. (It may be more readily understood by speakers of other English dialects, of course.) Overall I prefer ‘commune’ on the basis that that is the word which the dictionaries I possess (both English and Italian-English) recommend. Still, I accept that it too is problematic, for the reasons that you give. But using the word ‘commune’ does have a couple of minor advantages: it reminds people that these entities are related to the medieval communes, and also to the the French commune (in the general municipal sense, rather than to the Paris commune of 1870[-ish] and its communards) which provided, via the Napoleonic occupation, the model for local government in the restored Kingdom of Sardinia and (with modifications made by the Rattazzi decree) for united Italy. Anyway, I have only one clear rule on this: the Italian word comune must be italicized while the English word commune is set in Roman. Cheers, Ian Spackman (talk) 04:42, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

P.S. Don’t get me going on condottiero vs. condottiere.

Justlettersandnumbers, that "sort of local consensus" is simply called "law" :) Of course, the facts can change, and they are changing, since the comuni can be, and many are actually being abolished. Now, in the crisis time, even many provinces are in danger of being abolished. But, comune is not just an "administrative district"; it's local self-government. The provinces, not comuni, are meant as the state representations at the local level (i.e. "administrative districts"); it is the level where The State of Italy is acting directly. A comune usually corresponds to a city, or a town (or a village, although the Italians usually see any village as a town), unless it's too small to maintain the all administration on its own, since it would be too expensive. In such a case, at some point they have to agree to be added to some larger neighboring comune, as a "frazione" (fraction). The places in the areas considered as disadvantaged have some big benefactions, but, there're frequent abuses (there're "mountain communities" at the see level and similar), so there is a pressure to abolish most of them. The regions (the biggest divisions) should become a kind of federal units (in fact, they do have some competences), so, they are also a type of self-government (at the macro level).

Ian, "comune" and "municipio" are basically synonyms in the Italian and are rather equally used. Although "municipio" refers more to the administrative side (administration itself and its buildings) and "comune" more to the whole entity, the words are interchangeable.

Speaking about the Paris Commune... of course, the revolution comes in mind first, but, it was nothing else but - the comune of Paris, just like any comune in Italy - the local self-government of the city of Paris. The revolutionary factions had conquered the power in that particular local self-government, then they clashed with the central government, then the clash became an armed clash and then it was regarded as a revolution.

Comuni have existed, continuously, in Piedmont too, long before the Kingdom of Sardinia - since the Middle Ages. Decretto Rattazzi didn't affect them very much. The French model was primarily applied to the next higher levels - the provinces and the "circondari" (the level that doesn't exist any more, between the provinces and the comuni), they should have provided the centralized administration. The comunal self-government can be, and could always have been, since the Middle Ages, suppressed by imposing a "podesta" (and it was a rule in the Austria-governed regions). But, it is an emergency act, not a normal state of order (a podesta is a kind of "acting mayor").

The piemontese breed is not properly "the little ones". They are rather large and very muscular. In fact, they are bread for meat only. Of course the cows can be milked, but, they are not primarily raised for that purpose and the statement in the English Wikipedia (about "dual-purpose") is wrong (see, for example, the Italian Wikipedia article). Kornjaca (talk) 04:48, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, Kornjaca, I seem to have overlooked this message too. I’ve glanced at it quickly and see that you have a good knowledge of Italian local government and its history (better than mine, I am sure): a topic which we cover in a rather confused manner in this Wikipaedia.

I’ll read it prperly tomorrow, but now I have to DASH! Best wishes, Ian Spackman (talk) 08:17, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

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Books and Bytes - Issue 10

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A new reference tool

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Books and Bytes - Issue 11

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New donations - MIT Press Journals, Sage Stats, Hein Online and more
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The Wikipedia Library needs you!

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Books and Bytes - Issue 12

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Issue 12, May-June 2015
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New donations - Taylor & Francis, Science, and three new French-language resources
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Proposed deletion of Camo (beer)

The article Camo (beer) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No significance noted for this brewery.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Books and Bytes - Issue 13

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Books & Bytes
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by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

New donations - EBSCO, IMF, more newspaper archives, and Arabic resources
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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Books and Bytes - Issue 14

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by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

New donations - Gale, Brill, plus Finnish and Farsi resources
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Books & Bytes - Issue 15

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Books & Bytes
Issue 15, December-January 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs)

New donations - Ships, medical resources, plus Arabic and Farsi resources
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Books & Bytes - Issue 16

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Issue 16, February-March 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs)

New donations - science, humanities, and video resources
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[11] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.211.184.107 (talk) 13:39, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Books & Bytes - Issue 17

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Issue 17, April-May 2016
by The Interior, Ocaasi, UY Scuti, Sadads, and Nikkimaria

New donations this month - a German-language legal resource
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Category:Prime ministers of the Kingdom of Sardinia has been nominated for discussion

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Books & Bytes - Issue 18

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Books & Bytes
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by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi, Samwalton9, UY Scuti, and Sadads

New donations - Edinburgh University Press, American Psychological Association, Nomos (a German-language database), and more!
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Books and Bytes - Issue 19

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Books & Bytes
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New and expanded donations - Foreign Affairs, Open Edition, and many more
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ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Ian Spackman. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 20

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 20, November-December 2016
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs)

Partner resource expansions
New search tool for finding TWL resources
#1lib1ref 2017
Wikidata Visiting Scholar

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:00, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 21

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 21, January-March 2017
by Nikkimaria (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs), Samwalton9 (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

#1lib1ref 2017
Wikipedia Library User Group
Wikipedia + Libraries at Wikimedia Conference 2017
Spotlight: Library Card Platform

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 22

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 22, April-May 2017

New and expanded research accounts
Global branches update
Spotlight: OCLC Partnership
Bytes in brief

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

starting a WP page without refs

why do you start a WP page without refs? i mean you must have what you wrote about Lys (Dora Baltea) from somewhere. 10 years after still no refs, shuck ! original research from reading a map ?? --Wuerzele (talk) 10:10, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Regions of Italy (imagemap)

Template:Regions of Italy (imagemap) has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 13:34, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 23

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 23, June-July 2017

Library card
User Group update
Global branches update
Spotlight: Combating misinformation, fake news, and censorship
Bytes in brief

Chinese, Arabic and Yoruba versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:04, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 24

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 24, August-September 2017

User Group update
Global branches update
- Star Coordinator Award - last quarter's star coordinator: User:Csisc
Wikimania Birds of a Feather session roundup
Spotlight: Wiki Loves Archives
Bytes in brief

Arabic, Kiswahili and Yoruba versions of Books & Bytes are now available in meta!

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox Autostrada-it

Nomination for deletion of Template:RegioneIT (Cities and towns category)

Rubygate

waiting your reply .....

Amanda Knox Movie

Windisch-Graetz et cetera

Lega Nord

About Ortensio Faà di Bruno

Lucedio Abbey

Talkback

Mariano_Hugo_of_Windisch-Graetz

Annuario della Nobiltà Italiana

hey

Orphaned non-free image File:La Stampa logo.jpg

Palaces

Non-Free rationale for File:La Stampa front page 2006-12-10.jpg

/* External links */ Added an external link to a non-profit, non-commercial scholarly blog about Italian food historyFoodinitaly (talk) 20:35, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Notification of Help desk thread

Thanks!

Re: Silvio Berlusconi

Categories for discussion

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Music in Mantua

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Music in Milan

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Music in Sardinia

Season's Greetings

Disambiguation link notification

New Page Patrol survey

Nomination for deletion of Template:List of Italian cheeses TOC

Breggia

Annuario della Nobiltà Italiana

Non-free rationale for File:Tuttosport.jpg

Princess Marcella Borghese

Cosmetics on ANI

Did You (Who?) Call?

Thanks

Obscenity

Explanation

August 2013

Not Expert

Ingria

Category:Buildings and structures in the Marche

Proposed deletion of Virgilio.it

April 2014

The citations are all but clear!

Comune

Disambiguation link notification for April 29

Books and Bytes - Issue 10

A new reference tool

Books and Bytes - Issue 11

The Wikipedia Library needs you!

Books and Bytes - Issue 12

Proposed deletion of Camo (beer)

Books and Bytes - Issue 13

ArbCom elections are now open!

Books and Bytes - Issue 14

Books & Bytes - Issue 15

Books & Bytes - Issue 16

Books & Bytes - Issue 17

Category:Prime ministers of the Kingdom of Sardinia has been nominated for discussion

Books & Bytes - Issue 18

Books and Bytes - Issue 19

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Books and Bytes - Issue 20

Books and Bytes - Issue 21

Books and Bytes - Issue 22

starting a WP page without refs

Nomination for deletion of Template:Regions of Italy (imagemap)

Books and Bytes - Issue 23

Books and Bytes - Issue 24

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Books and Bytes - Issue 25

Books and Bytes - Issue 26

Books & Bytes - Issue 27

Books & Bytes – Issue 28

Books & Bytes – Issue 29

Books & Bytes, Issue 30

Orphaned non-free image File:Piemme-logo-200.png

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Category:Communes of the Province of Rome has been nominated for discussion

Books & Bytes, Issue 31