User:Soulbust/draft
| Sources | SIRS criteria pass? | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| 6–9 | N/A | Only source background information |
| 1 | Perhaps | Thought S(I)RS may come into question, the "Butler famously..." and "In true 2021..." paragraphs DO PASS the Independent criteria of SIRS |
| 2 | Kinda relies on other sources, so maybe this fails one of the SIRS criteria but I think it's good | |
| 3 | Has interview portions, but mainly original writing; perhaps not "sigcov" enough | |
| 17 | Interview-based but creates own commentary based on it (seen in paragraphs ahead of interview; author is also Brand Marketing Specialist at Nike - rival company to shoe company Jimmy is signed to) | |
| 19 | Think the paragraph above is journalist providing their own commentary based on their interview, recounts origins of company (but this might be stringently picked apart by policy) | |
| 22 | May fail "independent" for some, but "Fitting for", "The coffee cups are branded", "His pending" are all independent journalistic coverage of the company that aren't based in interviews or quotes from Butler | |
| 35 | This is a primary source so would fail SIR(S), but maybe IAR on this one since it is primary sourcing giving Bigface an award | |
| 31 | Unsure | Unsure if this would count as RS but if so, it should pass SIRS as it is based in journalistic coverage beyond just quoting Butler and collaborators |
| 32 | Unsure if this counts as RS but if so, should pass SIRS | |
| 34 | Unsure if counts as RS, but should be good for SIRS otherwise, it analyzes and covers in detail Bigface products | |
| 37 | Agree with previous comments. Maybe too short of coverage? | |
| 40 | Unsure if this counts as RS but if so, should pass SIRS; Goes in-depth about company's bidding/auction activities; also issue disclaimer "DCN’s attempts to reach Butler and Big Face Coffee were not immediately successful." so obviously independent of any interviewing of Butler | |
| 41 | Unsure if this counts as RS but if so, should pass SIRS; Goes in-depth about company's coffee menu | |
| 4 | Yes | Excluding any interview or quotations, writer offers company news/analysis (specifically noting that Shopify declined to share sales data for Bigface NFT) |
| 11 | 100% includes author personal opinion ("First of all, I absolutely love this scam") | |
| 12 | Excluding interview-derived quotes, the source offers its own reporting of the company's activity and partnership with Shopify | |
| 24 | Just a magazine covering local ongoings (in this case, a Bigface x Van Leeuwen pop-up shop collab); author, while a publicist and brand consultant also mentions being a freelance journalist for this specific magazine | |
| 36 | I agree with Oblivy's previous comments | |
| 38 | Not primarily based off interviews, quotes only included through journalistic coverage. Literally details company search for COO ("When then-Heat center…" paragraph) | |
| 5, 10, 13–16, 18, 20, 21, 23, 25–27, 29, 30, 33, 39 | No | Interview-based for many of these. Specific comments: 18: Believe this one would be picked apart as being "interview-based" with no real extra commentary helping out here 20: Author talks about it not from interview and does genuinely mention meeting between Butler and ONYX co-founder, but quotes press release that I think would make this not meet SIRS criteria? 21 Fails not because it's interview-based but because it's not secondary, as it's a CNBC report about Butler speaking at CNBC Small Business Playbook virtual summit 23: I think this would fail independent criteria as it's based off quotes from designer who collaborated with Bigface 25: Passes all SIRS in my opinion (is interview-based but any cotntent that would count as Independent Significant coverage is more about Butler not Bigface) 27: In response to comments made about Afrotech on the AFD: Couldn't find sourcing primary or otherwise that calls Afrotech a "marketing platform" as High King states. But I can see why that is being said. Ultimately unsure though and regardless, Afrotech to me seems like a conference more so, so I can't say this fails RS especially since no previous discussion exists at WP:PERENNIAL. And this article seems like it's just a journalistic reporting on Bigface's trademark filings. That being said this particualr source seems to be based off Butler's quotes and previous reporting so I think it would fail to meet SIRS criteria regardless. 30: I think this might be too brief to be considered "sigcov" by some editors 33: Unsure if counts as RS, and unsure if the frequent mentioning of price points would cause it to fail any criteria. |
- Hey Soulburst, I appreciate (probably more than most) the amount of work that has gone into reviewing these sources and writing them up, but none of these meets GNG/NCORP criteria for establishing notability. Lets deal with the "Yes" articles one-by-one against ORGIND/CORPDEPTH requirements, that is, contains in-depth (about the company) (CORPDEPTH) original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject (ORGIND).
- BOARDROOM TV article. You say writer offers company news/analysis (specifically noting that Shopify declined to share sales data for Bigface NFT). Let's look at the article more closely. It has a total of 12 sentences. The headline indicates the article is based on Butler *speaking* at a Commerce+ streamed Shopify event. 5 of the sentences are quotes attributed to people "affiliated" with the company. The others summarise what Butler spoke about. You've mentioned one single sentence which actually is still the author repeating information provided at the speaker series event but in any case, out of a 12 sentence article, one single sentence (which clearly is merely a very short summary of what was said at the event) most definitely doesn't meet GNG/NCORP.
- SBNation article is entirely based on a tweet from Butler showing a photo of the topic company's whiteboard notice of their products and prices and the authors comments/opinion on the pricing strategy. It has 15 sentences. The first 2 and last 4 aren't even about the company and arguably none of them are. There's nothing here that is in-depth about the company itself and the coverage is not significant. Its a short humourous article about the sign and about (in the author's opinion) the "scam" of paying $20 for a coffee. Just because the article has an opinion about it being a scam does not mean that the entire article itself meets GNG/NCORP.
- CNBC article attributes everything to Butler. The article does not "offer its own reporting" on anything *about the company* - the entire article is based on the interview linked in the article. There is nothing in here about the company's activity that wasn't said by Butler in the interview.
- Ocean Drive article is 8 sentences long and discusses a pop-up coffee trailer in the Miami Design District based on a company announcement on insta. It simply regurgitates the company announcement(s), there is no in-depth information *about the company* and it is not significant coverage. You appear to be focussed on the publisher/author but you need to focus on the content.
- Daily Mirror article, you say that you agree with Oblivy's comments which were includes efforts to contextualize this business as part of his career (analysis), and the journalist sought information from people other than the article subject to help with that task (investigation, fact checking). First, there is no consensus that the Daily Mirror is [[WP:DAILYMIRROR|reliable] as it is an English tabloid. Leaving that aside, the "contextualizing" in the article isn't what Oblivy says - it is simply the exact same summary of how Butler started the business and there's nothing new there that you can't find in just about every other article. But the laugh for me comes from Oblivy saying that the journalist "sought information from people other than the article". It isn't difficult to do a little digging to test this and find the article is mostly reguritated info from a tweet thread from the previous day by Andrew Petcash.
- Sports Business Journal is based *entirely* from an interview with Butler's agent, Bernie Lee and Butler's COO, Britt Berg. In fairness, they stick very well to the script and regurgitate the same ol' origin story that you can hear in the CNBC interview, the boardroom tv interview, the SBNation article, etc. You emphasise the article containing "details company search for COO" - but the COO participates in the interview for the article. There's nothing here that meets GNG/NCORP criteria.
- None of those references come close. I doubt you'll find any editor experienced with NCORP guidelines or who participate at NCORP AfDs will agree with you. HighKing++ 11:49, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah those editors experienced with NCORP guidelines or who participate at NCORP AfDs (probably) have the inherent bias of being really into the egregious strictness of the guidelines. There's some weird inconsistencies with what you say about a source and what is actually in there. For example, take the SBJ source. You say it's "entirely" based off an interview with Butler's agent. Just untrue. Some of it seems like it's based off information that can be found with interviewing his agent (whole second paragraph can exist without contacting Butler's agent, trying to erase that as a plausibility seems to disregard any sort of journalistic process. Also some sections quote someone else entirely, which obviously goes against the source being "entirely" based off an interview with Butler's agent.) Regardless, I already explained why I believe each source lands a yes, perhaps, no, or unsure. I'm cool agreeing to just disagree with your assessments/opinions, to which you're obviously entitled to. Best wishes. Soulbust (talk) 02:52, 25 August 2023 (UTC)