Template talk:Authority control/Archive 13

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 10

Archive 11

Archive 12

TDVİA link

The TDVİA link should be piped 'TDV Encyclopedia of Islam' (which is the official translation), as it is not the only, and, for the English-speaking world, by a wide margin not the most commonly used Encyclopedia of Islam, and is a distinct project from the latter. Constantine ✍ 08:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Identifier TDV İslam Ansiklopedisi ID (P7314) is the İslâm Ansiklopedisi. This is not the original, English-language academic standard reference work in the field of Islamic studies Encyclopaedia of Islam. So, it should be named İslâm Ansiklopedisi and not Encyclopaedia of Islam. — Luamssuk (talk) 11:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Cplakidas and Luamssuk: you both agree the label should be changed. Can you try to reach agreement on what it should be changed to? And Constantine, please comment on proposal to remove this identifier below — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:20, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

@Luamssuk and MSGJ: absolutely fine with 'İslâm Ansiklopedisi' and 'TDV İslâm Ansiklopedisi' as well, for the two different versions. My point was that it should be differentiated from the English-language Encyclopaedia of Islam. Constantine ✍ 09:22, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Renamed to İslâm Ansiklopedisi — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:33, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

GND, P227

Currently we link to the GND identifier (property GND ID (P227)) in the "General" tab, as "Integrated Authority File (Germany)". I think it would be clearer to link it in the "National libraries" tab, as "Germany". Is there a good reason why we don't do this? —David Eppstein (talk) 19:37, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

@David Eppstein: I don't think the groupings have undergone much scrutiny since their initial population. If you see an odd one here or there, chances are it's an oversight. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 12:43, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:37, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Request - replace identifier P7305: Online PWN Encyclopedia ID with P1417: Encyclopædia Britannica Online ID

Please replace identifier Online PWN Encyclopedia ID (P7305) with identifier Encyclopædia Britannica Online ID (P1417) in Module:Authority control. Reason: The encyclopedia Encyclopædia Britannica enjoys a much better reputation than the Polish-language only encyclopedia Internetowa encyklopedia PWN. The P1417 parameter/ID could be named "EBID", and the label could be named "Encyclopædia Britannica" (or just label "EB", to save some space). — Luamssuk (talk) 13:18, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Online PWN Encyclopedia ID (P7305) is now removed from Module:Authority control/sandbox2. I think the Encyclopædia Britannica should be proposed separately. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree that adding EB and removing PWN should be two separate discussions. They do not appear interchangeable to me. So I oppose this proposal as written. Additionally, is PWN so low of reputation that it would fail WP:RS, or is it usable as a source? Has it been discussed at WP:RSN? That would influence my opinion on a properly-formulated proposal to include or exclude it. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:45, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Online PWN Encyclopedia ID (P7305) has been removed from live template. It was added with little support/consensus so removing it does not require much either — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:28, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Request - Online PWN Encyclopedia ID

Regards. Please add a module displaying a link to the Polish encyclopedia - Online PWN Encyclopedia ID (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P7305). I would be grateful for this help. Abraham (talk) 16:48, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Abraham: code is on Module:Authority control/sandbox2. Test is below. Please test further and advise if this can be deployed? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:27, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

{{Authority control/sandbox2|PWN=3878797}} produces:

@MSGJ: Yes, thank you very much. Please, deployed. Abraham (talk) 22:40, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Please advise on the most appropriate group for this identifier? The choices are: 'General', 'National libraries','Art galleries and museums','Art research institutes','Biographical dictionaries','Scientific databases','Lighthouse identifiers','Other' — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:31, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Regards. Please add a module displaying a link to the Polish encyclopedia - Online PWN Encyclopedia ID in the group 'Other'. Thank you very much for your work. Abraham (talk) 10:01, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

This identifier has already been removed (see below). Consensus will be needed before it can be re-added. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:39, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Identifiers removed from Module:Authority control/sandbox, without discussing this first

@Uzume: why have you removed the Lua code of proposals for new identifiers like P8189: National Library of Israel J9U ID, P4955: MR Author ID, P1556: zbMATH author ID, P7902: Deutsche Biographie (GND) ID from Module:Authority control/sandbox without discussing this on the talk page first? How are the test cases for new identifiers supposed to work, when the code is deleted? — Luamssuk (talk) 22:00, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

@Luamssuk: I just synchronized updates to the main module with the sandbox. If there is something in the sandbox you want you are free to revert it but you should then manually merge in the changes from the main module otherwise copying from the sandbox to the main would revert important changes. I did not mean to step on any important changes anyone was working on. I haven't seen any test cases for such new identifiers. Of course there are quite a few test cases to go through at Template:Authority control/testcases, Module:Authority control/testcases and Module talk:Authority control/testcases. —Uzume (talk) 08:17, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be best if you could update the sandbox at the same time as changing the live module Uzume? This module is under constant development. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:19, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

The four prosed identifiers P1556, P4955, P7902, and P8189 have been added to Module:Authority control/sandbox again. I didn’t undo or revert the other changes made by Uzume. To clarify and avoid confusion: only the four identifiers have been addend – the other changes/updates by Uzume are still in Module:Authority control/sandbox. — Luamssuk (talk) 16:26, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

@Luamssuk: Thanks, I was going to revert the sync to the sandbox and merge in my changes to the live template as Martin suggested but apparently you beat me to it remerging in sandbox changes you had outstanding (effectively getting to the same outcome). FYI: it is possible to have multiple sandboxes, e.g., we also have Module:Authority control/sandbox2 and Template:Authority control/sandbox2. If you plan to have outstanding changes for extended periods of time it might behoove you to consider such. You could even use your own personal sandboxes for such; just be sure to let people know where the changes are when you request they be merged to the main active module/temple, etc. As an example, I doubt anyone would mess with your changes if you worked on them at Module:Sandbox/Luamssuk/Authority control and you could easily make diffs from that like: Diff —Uzume (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

NLI -> J9U

Please note that many National Library of Israel ID (old) (P949) have already been replaced by the new National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189), but the template hasn't been changed to reflect that. נדב ס (talk) 11:44, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Should J9U be added as an supplementary or as a replacement? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:32, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the belated response, MSGJ. Per your question: If National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189) exists for an item, only this ID should be used. However, some items still have only National Library of Israel ID (old) (P949), and then it is better than nothing. Nadav S (talk) 14:59, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Okay I don't think we have this kind of logic available in the template yet so we can either include or exclude. We can add J9U if there are no concerns from others. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request – add identifier P8189: National Library of Israel J9U ID

previous discussion here

Please add identifier National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189) to Module:Authority control. It is the Identifier used by the National Library of Israel. Proposed parameter/ID 'J9U'. Proposed label 'Israel'. Proposed section: 'National libraries'.

National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189) added to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. Test below. Please check.

{{Authority control/sandbox|J9U=987007305652505171}} (Douglas Adams) produces:

What if both the old identifier National Library of Israel ID (old) (P949) and the new identifier P8189 should be in Module:Authority control? 'don't show NLI if J9U is present' added to Module:Authority control/sandbox. Difference between revisions (Both identifiers P949 and P8189 could be in in Module:Authority control. If P8189 is present in Wikidata, P949 looks empty for Module:Authority control. So Template:Authority control will only show P8189) Please check. — Luamssuk (talk) 21:02, 5 February 2022 (UTC) 000163846 {{Authority control/sandbox|NLI=000163846|J9U=987007305652505171}} produces: {{Authority control/sandbox|NLI=000163846}} produces: Tests look good. Thanks Luamssuk — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:53, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Amazing! Thank you, Martin and Luamssuk. Nadav S (talk) 15:37, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Same code for identifier P8189 added again to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. I used copy & paste from the source revision history. So, the code should be the same. But it would be better if you review the code again, please. — Luamssuk (talk) 10:52, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:16, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

MR / MathSciNet, P4955

I think that property MR Author ID (P4955) (an author ID in the MathSciNet database of mathematics publications) should be added, in the "Scientific databases" tab of the authority control box, as "MathSciNet". (MathSciNet itself calls this number the "MR Author ID" but I think that is too cryptic for the authcon box). —David Eppstein (talk) 19:41, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

The two major mathematical reviewing databases, Mathematical Reviews/MathSciNet and zbMATH, are the only two comprehensive resources of this type published in English-language (according to the Wikipedia articles). zbMATH is distributed by Springer Nature. Since January 2021, zbMATH has been available as an open access database (funded by the Federal Government of Germany). MathSciNet has a paywall (subscription). To support open access, it would be better to add identifier zbMATH author ID (P1556) instead of identifier MR Author ID (P4955) to Module:Authority control. But a mathematician working with both databases should also comment, which of those two identifiers is better suited to identify a person. — Luamssuk (talk) 11:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Why not both? ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 12:12, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Both identifiers represent the author records of the two leading mathematical reviewing databases published in English-language. So, both MR Author ID (P4955) and zbMATH author ID (P1556) could be added to Module:Authority control "Scientific databases". But maybe "zbMATH author ID" should be shortened to "zbMATH", to save some space in the "Scientific databases" tab. — Luamssuk (talk) 14:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Is there an efficient way in Lua to check for false identifier zbMATH author ID (P1556) format in Module:Authority control? The format constraint is [a-z][a-z\-]*\.[a-z\-]*(\.[1-5])?, and the length is not limited. I don’t want to write(copy&paste) 100 times (assumed maximal length of 100) the same 'lowercase', 'string' (not two strings in a row), '.' (only a single '.'), (and no, or a single digit at the end) format check. Example P1556 ID: al-kassab.m-m-t.1 https://zbmath.org/authors/?q=ai:al-kassab.m-m-t.1 (Info: Identifier P1556 is used in the Russian Wiki Authority control – but they simply don’t check for false format) — Luamssuk (talk) 13:22, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

I don't understand half of what you typed above, but format constraint violations are listed at Wikidata:Wikidata:Database_reports/Constraint_violations/P1556#Format — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:41, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Request – add identifier P4955: MR Author ID

previous discussion here

Please add identifier MR Author ID (P4955) to Module:Authority control. It is the Identifier of authors in the major mathematical reviewing database MathSciNet (part of the journal Mathematical Reviews – one of the two comprehensive resources of this type published in English-language). Also used in WP:NACADEMIC for citation metrics. Proposed parameter/ID 'MATHSN' (short for MathSciNet ('MSN' belongs to Microsoft)). Proposed label 'MathSciNet'. Proposed section: 'Scientific databases'.

MR Author ID (P4955) added to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. Test below. Please check. — Luamssuk (talk) 22:07, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

{{Authority control/sandbox|MATHSN=175270}} (Alan Turing) produces:

Looks good to me. Also good choice of test case. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:54, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Same code for identifier P4955 added again to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. I used copy & paste from the source revision history. So, the code should be the same. But it would be better if you review the code again, please. — Luamssuk (talk) 10:54, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:02, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Request – add identifier P1556: zbMATH author ID

previous discussion here

Please add identifier zbMATH author ID (P1556) to Module:Authority control. It is the Identifier of authors in the longest-running major mathematical reviewing database zbMATH (one of the two comprehensive resources of this type published in English-language). Also used in WP:NACADEMIC. Since January 2021, zbMATH has been available as an open access database (funded by the Federal Government of Germany). Proposed parameter/ID 'ZBMATH'. Proposed label 'zbMATH'. Proposed section: 'Scientific databases'.

zbMATH author ID (P1556) added to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. Test below. Please check. — Luamssuk (talk) 15:24, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

{{Authority control/sandbox|ZBMATH=turing.alan-m}} (standard test case Alan Turing) produces:

{{Authority control/sandbox|ZBMATH=al-kassab.m-m-t.1}} (test case with digit) produces:

Same code for identifier P1556 added again to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. I used copy & paste from the source revision history. So, the code should be the same. But it would be better if you review the code again, please. — Luamssuk (talk) 10:56, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:02, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Request - add identifier P7902: Deutsche Biographie (GND) ID

Please add identifier Deutsche Biographie (GND) ID (P7902) of the open access Deutsche Biographie to Module:Authority control. Description on the website: "Certified information on more than 730.000 personalities and families in the German speaking areas from the Middle Ages to the present; namely 50.000 biographies (ADB and NDB) and links to more than 230 online ressources (literature, dictionaries, source editions etc.)". Deutsche Biographie is published by the Bavarian Academy of Sciences and Humanities, operated by the Bavarian State Library, and funded by the German Research Foundation. Proposed parameter/ID 'DTBIO'. Proposed label "Germany". Proposed section: "Biographical dictionaries".

Deutsche Biographie (GND) ID (P7902) added to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. Test below. Please check. — Luamssuk (talk) 21:02, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

{{Authority control/sandbox|DTBIO=118554700}} (Alexander von Humboldt) produces:

Same code for identifier P7902 added again to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. I used copy & paste from the source revision history. So, the code should be the same. But it would be better if you review the code again, please. — Luamssuk (talk) 10:57, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Done. This has now been added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Lua error: too many expensive function calls

I just went to synchonrise the changes in the sandbox, but this error has started appearing: "Lua error: too many expensive function calls" — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

I just tried again and the same error message is now appearing on the module. I've checked a few articles and it doesn't appear to affect them, so I haven't immediately reverted. I will post to VPT about this, to see if anyone has any suggestions. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:07, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

As outlined at VPT, it's the expensive calls made by mw.site.stats.pagesInCategory in function docConfTable. I just noticed something that might eventually help solve the problem if the category counts are really needed. See the documentation at Template:Category chart which was recently used to create Template:Bare URLs chart and Template:Bare URLs chart/data. I don't think the system is directly useful here, but it does show there is a bot which updates category counts and there might be a way it could help, or be enhanced to help. Johnuniq (talk) 08:45, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your analysis and help with this. I am going to make a proposal in the section below which will help with this. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:52, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

The number of identifiers at Module:AC is 94. Each identifier has 5 categories (Category:Pages with XYZ identifiers, Category:Articles with XYZ identifiers, Category:Articles with faulty XYZ identifiers, Category:Miscellaneous pages with XYZ identifiers, Category:User pages with XYZ identifiers). There are at least 94 x 5 = 470 categories in the table Parameters, Wikidata properties, and tracking categories at Module:Authority control/doc. So every identifier calls five times the expensive Lua function mw.site.stats.pagesInCategory. There is a limit of 500 to the expensive parser function count WP:EXPENSIVE. — Luamssuk (talk) 13:14, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

There are at least two duplicate/redundant identifiers in Module:Authority control. NLP ID (old) (P1695) redirects to PLWABN ID (P7293). National Library of Israel ID (old) (P949) redirects to National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189). If you know somebody with good bot programming skills, a bot could fill Wikidata with the missing Identifiers. After Wikidata has been filled by the bot, those two identifiers could be removed from Module:Authority control. — Luamssuk (talk) 13:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Or remove identifier Léonore ID (P640), which is not working since August 2021 — Luamssuk (talk) 15:20, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Several ugly categories

It appears the template is adding several ugly maintenance categories, some red, some which have been created, e.g. Category:Articles with J9U identifiers, Category:Articles with DTBIO identifiers, Category:Articles with MATHSN identifiers, and Category:Articles with ZBMATH identifiers. See George David Birkhoff for example. Is it standard practice to create these categories (with {{hidden category}} or {{Pages with authority control identifiers}}) for every single identifier in this endlessly growing dumpster of a template, or should the template be tweaked to not create them? --Animalparty! (talk) 01:54, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Animalparty, thanks for bringing this up (and at rather an opportune time too!) I believe the error categories are useful, and the categories for tracking uses in articles may well have its uses too. But I can't see the benefit to all the subcategories of Category:User pages with authority control information and Category:Miscellaneous pages with authority control information. I propose that we stop populating these, which will solve the problem with expensive function calls. I have made this change at Module:Authority control/sandbox. Comments invited — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:15, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

User pages/Miscellaneous pages are both non-article pages. The maintenance categories for identifiers should only list article pages that are part of the encyclopedia, in my opinion. Also, this would free up approximately 188 expensive Lua function calls in Module:Authority control. — Luamssuk (talk) 22:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Done and expensive function error has now disappeared — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:52, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Removal requests

Input from others, especially from experienced editors familiar with the identifiers (P347, P640, P886, P902, P2558, P4613, P7305 or P7314), is always welcome. Please make recommendations (e. g. "Keep", "Delete") sustained by arguments. — Luamssuk (talk) 18:20, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I will wait a few more days in case anyone has any comments on these — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:48, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't see why the language of an authority (the only reason given in these requests) is relevant for whether we should or should not link that authority. For instance, I think we should link the major national libraries of Germany and France, regardless of whether they provide us English translations of their entries. So I think all of the requests below are invalid and need a completely different rationale if they are to be followed. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:01, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Agree. Also, significant time should be allowed for removing long-standing authorities (I'd say 1 month under normal circumstances), and the original requester & participants of the originating discussion should be pinged. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 18:44, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

There are no national libraries among the removal requests. Please discuss the removal requests and do not mislead or distract from the removal requests. — Luamssuk (talk) 22:10, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

The language is relevant because English-language links are strongly preferred - see WP:NONENGEL. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure, if a major national database or encyclopedia provides English-language links then those links are the ones we should use for it. That is a very different principle than (as below) saying that we can't link to a major national database or encyclopedia unless it provides English links. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:45, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

The principle articulated in NONENGEL is closer to the latter than the former - it's not an absolute prohibition, but it's also not "as long as there isn't an English-language version". Nikkimaria (talk) 23:57, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

This is a bad argument, because NONENGEL is a small part of a larger content guideline, WP:EL, and if you're going to argue that WP:EL controls what should be in an authority control box then there's a much bigger problem with authority control boxes than a few non-English links. Another part of WP:EL, that would also need to be considered in this case, is WP:ELMIN, which says that we should normally only have a single external link per article, and that the dozens of links provided in authority control boxes shouldn't be there. We should not pick and choose which tiny parts of EL we want to apply and which we think are irrelevant; that's a recipe for making any argument that you might want to make rather than principled guideline-following. So either WP:EL is relevant, and we should avoid authority control boxes altogether (an unlikely outcome), or WP:EL is irrelevant and that makes your argument equally irrelevant. I tend to think that authority control boxes are qualitatively different than links in external links section, and more similar to say the lists of interlanguage wiki links that we also provide. If they are indeed more like interlanguage wiki links than like links in external links sections, then the argument based on link language is pointless: we have no prohibition on linking interlanguage wikis that happen to be in other languages. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:10, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

These are objectively external links, not interwiki links. I don't disagree that there are considerable problems with regards to other portions of EL, but that doesn't mean EL does not apply. (ELMIN however refers to official links, so largely does not apply to these). Nikkimaria (talk) 02:53, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

These are objectively authority control identifiers, which happen to be linked. If the template hadn't been deliberately hamstring by having the identifiers hidden behind generic link texts, this would be more apparent (except, perhaps, to those who wilfully remain or purport to be ignorant of its purpose). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:21, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

If someone wanted to propose presenting unlinked identifiers, then there would be no external links involved. But regardless of link text, at the present time this is a template full of external links. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:59, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

@David Eppstein and Tom.Reding: please could you comment below on any identifiers that you oppose removal, so consensus can be established. Thanks — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:08, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

The bludgeoning is unhelpful and does not help to establish consensus. It would be more helpful if you could comment on the merits of each proposal. Thanks — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:54, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

All of the proposals are without merit and all of the identifiers should remain in the template, Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:21, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P7314: TDV İslam Ansiklopedisi ID

Please remove identifier TDV İslam Ansiklopedisi ID (P7314) from Module:Authority control / Reason: İslâm Ansiklopedisi is 100 % Turkish-language. But this is the English-language Wikipedia. The original, academic standard reference work in the field of Islamic studies Encyclopaedia of Islam is published online in English-language. — Luamssuk (talk) 11:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

If this identifier will not be removed from Module:Authority control, it must be renamed from "Encyclopaedia of Islam" to İslâm Ansiklopedisi. Because the Encyclopaedia of Islam is officially published under the name "Encyclopaedia of Islam" by Brill Publishers. Reference: http://dx.doi.org/10.1163/1573-3912-ei3-all — Luamssuk (talk) 18:49, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has asked me to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion with comments on each individual item rather than merely expressing my opposition once at the top, so here it is. I oppose this request. See top for why. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Also disagree. It is still a WP:RS by respectable scholars, and indispensable for the field of Islamic and Turkish studies; it is also frequently cited by English-language scholars and studies. Constantine ✍ 09:24, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@User:Cplakidas Please name 5 relevant English-language academic standard reference works about the Islam, that cite Türkiye Diyanet Vakfı İslâm Ansiklopedisi (and not the old İslâm Ansiklopedisi, which was published from 1940 to 1987 by the Istanbul University). — Luamssuk (talk) 17:08, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Wow, cool down, Mr Examiner. Do you have reason to assume I make a statement on bad faith, or do you think that an encyclopedia that scholars like Halil Inalcik or Cemal Kafadar wrote articles for is unreliable? It is by default a major resource in Ottoman and Turkish studies, at the very least. I suggest simply searching in Google Books for 'Diyanet İslâm Ansiklopedisi' or 'TDVIA', just for starters... Constantine ✍ 07:51, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

You claim that Türkiye Diyanet Vakfı İslâm Ansiklopedisi is indispensable for the field of Islamic studies. I suggest you simply name us the DOI of 5 relevant English-language academic standard reference works about the Islam, that cite Türkiye Diyanet Vakfı İslâm Ansiklopedisi, just for starters. — Luamssuk (talk) 10:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Keep per top. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P2558: autores.uy ID

Please remove identifier autores.uy ID (P2558) from Module:Authority control / Reason: Autores.uy is 100 % Spanish-language (no switch to English-language on website possible). But this is the English-language Wikipedia. — Luamssuk (talk) 12:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has asked me to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion with comments on each individual item rather than merely expressing my opposition once at the top, so here it is. I oppose this request. See top for why. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Keep per top. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P4613: Encyclopedia of Modern Ukraine ID

Please remove identifier Encyclopedia of Modern Ukraine ID (P4613) from Module:Authority control / Reason: Encyclopedia of Modern Ukraine is 100 % Ukrainian-language (no switch to English-language on website possible). But this is the English-language Wikipedia. — Luamssuk (talk) 12:12, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The English-language identifier Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine ID (P9070) is already in Module:Authority control. So, there are two identifiers for Ukrainian encyclopedias in Module:Authority control. The English-language identifier should be preferred and the Ukrainian-language only identifier Encyclopedia of Modern Ukraine ID (P4613) should be removed from Module:Authority control. — Luamssuk (talk) 18:16, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has asked me to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion with comments on each individual item rather than merely expressing my opposition once at the top, so here it is. I oppose this request. See top for why. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Keep per top. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P902: HDS ID

Please remove identifier HDS ID (P902) from Module:Authority control / Reason: Historical Dictionary of Switzerland is 100 % German-, French-, Italian-language (no switch to English-language on website possible). But this is the English-language Wikipedia. — Luamssuk (talk) 12:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The Historical Dictionary of Switzerland is funded by the Government of Switzerland. So, the neutrality (and quality) of this identifier should be good. I hereby withdraw the request to remove identifier P902. — Luamssuk (talk) 19:07, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has asked me to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion with comments on each individual item rather than merely expressing my opposition once at the top, so here it is. I oppose this request. See top for why. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Keep per top. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P347: Joconde work ID

Please remove identifier Joconde work ID (P347) from Module:Authority control / Reason: Joconde is 100 % French-language (no switch to English-language on website possible). But this is the English-language Wikipedia. — Luamssuk (talk) 12:14, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has asked me to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion with comments on each individual item rather than merely expressing my opposition once at the top, so here it is. I oppose this request. See top for why. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Keep per top. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P886: Lexicon istoric retic ID

Please remove identifier Lexicon istoric retic ID (P886) from Module:Authority control / Reason: Lexicon Istoric Retic is 100 % Romansh-, German-, Italian-language (no switch to English-language on website possible). But this is the English-language Wikipedia. — Luamssuk (talk) 12:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The Lexicon Istoric Retic is funded by the Government of Switzerland. So, the neutrality (and quality) of this identifier should be good. I hereby withdraw the request to remove identifier P886. — Luamssuk (talk) 19:08, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has asked me to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion with comments on each individual item rather than merely expressing my opposition once at the top, so here it is. I oppose this request. See top for why. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Keep per top. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P640: Léonore ID

Please remove identifier Léonore ID (P640) from Module:Authority control / Reason: Base Léonore is 100 % French-language (no switch to English-language on website possible). But this is the English-language Wikipedia. — Luamssuk (talk) 12:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has asked me to WP:BLUDGEON this discussion with comments on each individual item rather than merely expressing my opposition once at the top, so here it is. I oppose this request. See top for why. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Keep per top. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:54, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Request Renewal - Online PWN Encyclopedia ID

Regards. Please add a module displaying a link to the Polish encyclopedia - Online PWN Encyclopedia ID (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P7305) in the group 'Other'. Abraham (talk) 11:16, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Oppose: The Polish-language Internetowa encyklopedia PWN is no reputable general encyclopedia. As an example of the low quality please see the entry for former president of the United States Barack Obama in Internetowa encyklopedia PWN, and compare it to the entry in Encyclopædia Britannica. And reputation is also not about the number of entries (Chinese Baike.com has around 18 million articles but is also no reputable general encyclopedia). Identifiers of reputable general encyclopedias, such as Encyclopædia Britannica Online ID (P1417) of the English-language Encyclopædia Britannica, may be used. — Luamssuk (talk) 22:44, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Léonore ID (P640) - not working since August 2021

Links for identifier Léonore ID (P640) in Module:Authority control still go nowhere (they just open the search engine). The last comment here for this issue dated back to September 2021. If there is no solution for this by the end of February, P640 should be removed from Module:Authority control in March. — Luamssuk (talk) 11:00, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Okay, if there are no comments by the end of next week, then we can remove this I think — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:00, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Removed on sandbox — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:48, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Removed — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:11, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

National Library of Italy SBN (P396): new format in Wikidata – new format regex check needed

@Ladsgroup:,@Epìdosis: Please describe the new format regex for identifier SBN author ID (P396). It seems your bot User:Dexbot already changed some Wikidata to a new format regex (example Albert Einstein). Since Module:Authority control checks for the old format regex, it needs an update, or it will output that the new correct format as faulty. To update Module:Authority control, exact information about the new format regex is needed. — Luamssuk (talk) 12:31, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

The format is \D{2}[A-Z0-3]V\d{6}. The reformatting of the values is still ongoing, but will finish soon. Also the formatter URL will probably be updated before the end of the month. Thanks, --Epìdosis 13:17, 19 February 2022 (UTC) Update: the reformatting of the values has finished one hour ago. --Epìdosis 20:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for letting us know. I see that Uzume has updated the module and the error category is gradually clearing out — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:17, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

We also need un update of the URL formatter, as I said above: the new one is https://opac.sbn.it/nome/$1, it changed one hour ago. Thanks! --Epìdosis 17:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Updated on sandbox. Test below. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:55, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:10, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Request – BAnQ author ID (P3280) and Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179)

Hello, I noticed that these two national libraries were missing from the authority control module. Would it be a good idea to include them? Please advise. Thank you and kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 19:08, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Oppose: Both BAnQ authority ID (P3280) and Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179) just link to the VIAF website and not to the libraries. But the VIAF identifier is already in authority control. If the VIAF website services are no longer operating, those two identifiers would be of no use (other identifiers like Library of Congress authority ID (P244) will still work). Even on the VIAF website is no (Authority/Source Record) link to the libraries. Example: Justin Trudeau (BAnQ https://viaf.org/processed/B2Q%7C0001168069 (Authority/Source Record) missing); (CAOONL https://viaf.org/processed/CAOONL%7Cncf10625893 (Authority/Source Record) missing); (LC https://viaf.org/processed/LC%7Cno2014147581 (Authority/Source Record) links to the Library of Congress). — Luamssuk (talk) 10:19, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Dear Luamssuk, thank you for letting me know about this caveat. I was not aware that this was the requirement. In such a case, may I propose the addition of BNMM authority ID (P3788) for Argentina, and HelveticArchives ID (P1255) for Switzerland? Both of them link to their respective national library's catalogues. Please advise, thank you. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 08:54, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Query

I hope I'm in the right place. On tonight's Empty Categories list, there are suddenly dozens of empty categories of the type, Category:User pages with DTBIO identifiers, all "User pages" with some kind of "identifies". I don't know what this means or what these categories are for but my guess is that the categories used to be filled by some sort of template, this template was edited and so these categories were emptied of their contents.

These categories will be tagged for CSD C1 deletion as empty categories but they sit for a week in Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion so there is time to sort this out in case these categories should be preserved. But it's the kind of thing that I stumble across and I don't know who might know what happened but, through links on these categories and redirects, I ended up on this talk page. I hope that there is enough activity here that someone will see this and let me know if some stray edit caused these categories to be emptied and need to be reverted or if this whole thing was done intentionally and these categories are no longer needed or wanted. Thanks, in advance! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:24, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

@Liz: see a few sections above this one, "Lua error: too many expensive function calls". This template got too big, and the easiest way to solve this was to remove the population of many less important maintenance categories. As a consequence, these are now empty, but they are no longer needed. Fram (talk) 08:17, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I was hoping these would come across your desk Liz. They are no longer required. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

At the moment, when the pages are really empty, I will add {{db-author}} to all Category:User pages/Category:Miscellaneous pages created by me — Luamssuk (talk) 11:43, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Well, that is exactly what I needed to know! And thank you for simplifying it for those of us who don't understand Lua or know what an identifier is.

Please ignore the speedy deletion notices that come across your talk pages but I'm a stickler for deletion notifications, even when I hear the page creators are aware of the situation. Once you've been taken to ANI because someone didn't get notified about a page deletion, you do it religiously out of habit. Feel free to delete them. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:16, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh, one last question, Category:User pages with multiple identifiers has a "Please do not delete this category as empty!" notice on it, can this notice now be ignored or is this a category you want to keep around? Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:12, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

I've deleted it. Thanks Liz — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:37, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

We have a whole new slew of "identifier" categories tonight at Wikipedia:Database reports/Empty categories. I'm assuming that it is also okay to tag them for deletion. You'll have a week to challenge CSD C1 tagging if these categories are still needed. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:58, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

There's another empty category with an empty cat tag, Category:Pages with authority control identifiers unknown category. Should this be untagged and then tagged for deletion? Thanks! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

I think this one is still in use — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:35, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes, thanks Liz. This should be the last batch after the reorganisation. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:34, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Request - add identifier P9984: CANTIC ID (new identifier Library of Catalonia)

Please add identifier CANTIC ID (P9984) to Module:Authority control. It is the new identifier used by the Library of Catalonia and the library has deprecated the old identifiers CANTIC ID (former scheme) (P1273) in favor of the new identifiers P9984. Proposed parameter/ID 'CANTICN' ('CANTIC' is used by the old identifier). Proposed label 'Catalonia'. Proposed section: 'National libraries'. There are still 397 items in Wikidata that only have the old identifier (see https://w.wiki/4GNG). I propose to keep the old identifier P1273 for a while. (Same like the two identifiers for the National Library of Israel here).

CANTIC ID (P9984) added to Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. (Please undo/restore if you need Authority control/sandbox and use the Difference from Module:Sandbox/Luamssuk/Authority control) — Luamssuk (talk) 17:37, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks good to me — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:15, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Only P9984: Test below. Please check. {{Authority control/sandbox|CANTICN=981058521390506706}} produces:

Only P1273: Test below. Please check. {{Authority control/sandbox|CANTIC=a10439560} produces:

Both P1273 and P9984: Test below. Please check. {{Authority control/sandbox|CANTIC=a10439560|CANTICN=981058521390506706}} produces:

Added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:27, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

I created Category:Articles with CANTICN identifiers. Would you mind creating other needed things? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:28, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Done — Luamssuk (talk) 23:23, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

TLS identifier format

I noticed that Category:Articles with faulty TLS identifiers has quite a lot of articles in it. Theaterlexikon der Schweiz ID (P1362) has format constraint \p{Lu}[\p{L}\d_',\.\-\*/–&]{3,69} but the code in Module:Authority control (lines 819 onwards) seems to be incorrectly identifying many of them as invalid. I haven't had time to look in detail yet — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Maybe Lua language does not support any character encoding other than ASCII. Switzerland has three official languages: German, French, Italian -> non-ASCII characters like the French alphabet (ï, ë, ç …) or German umlauts (ä, ö, ü). — Luamssuk (talk) 14:32, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes I think you are right, all the "invalid" ones have accented letters. I will ask about this at WT:LUA — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:16, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Trappist the monk has suggested a fix, which seems to work. Compare below. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Fix deployed — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:26, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

There is still something wrong becauswe SPAD_-_Section_professionnelle_d'art_dramatique_du_Conservatoire_de_Lausanne,_Lausanne_VD is not recognised as a valid identifier. I have fixed the regex at Wikidata and will update here shortly. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:30, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Big problem

I'm trying to work out why Among Us is showing "Lua error: not enough memory." I previewed an edit of the article after replacing its contents with the following:

{{authority control}}

That shows "Lua memory usage 17,543,898/52,428,800 bytes". That is, this template uses 33% of the allowed 52MB for Lua in that article. That is far too much. Does anyone know why it takes all that? A similar experiment on a couple of other articles showed around 1.5MB. The preview at Among Us managed to show the authority box and it included "The BNF id 17992694 is not valid". Does that lead to the massive memory usage? Johnuniq (talk) 09:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

I removed authority control from that article and there are still lua errors, so there are obviously other problems. Some further analysis on articles which use authority control is below. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:12, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Article	Number of identifiers	Lua memory usage	Wikidata item size
Albert Einstein	44	4,130,228	517,318
Napoleon	42	3,513,080	390,259
Hermann Hesse	38	3,081,519	308,373
Oliver Goldsmith	33	3,220,694	347,141
Among Us	4	17,541,051	2,633,737
The Westland	0	781,220	5,689

Memory usage seems to be closely related to the size of the item on Wikidata. Is that because we are loading the whole item into the memory, or because somehow it uses more memory to search for the identifiers in a larger item? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:20, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Resolved for {{video game reviews}} by adding a qid=none suppression option. -- ferret (talk) 15:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. The issue shown in the table above is strange and probably should be investigated ... time permitting. Johnuniq (talk) 05:58, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Ouch! Previewing an edit of Among Us after replacing its content with

{{EditAtWikidata|pid=identifiers}}

shows "Lua memory usage 17,146,379/52,428,800 bytes". Module:Authority control calls {{EditAtWikidata}} using frame:expandTemplate. I'll have a look at Module:EditAtWikidata in due course. Johnuniq (talk) 06:56, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

You're right Johnuniq. It uses mw.wikibase.getEntityObject which is expensive and loads the whole table of data. It seems very inefficient when all it needs is the entity id. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:40, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: I will soon fix the memory usage issue at EditAtWikidata (the fix is in the sandbox—I'm waiting a short time to see if there are any comments because class=noprint was also added). When I update Module:EditAtWikidata there will also be a way to call the module directly rather than the higher-overhead method of expanding the template. I plan to update Module:Authority control to make that call. I see that there are some changes in Module:Authority control/sandbox. Are they wanted? That is, should they be included in an edit that calls Module:EditAtWikidata?

Module:Authority control • Module:Authority control/sandbox • same content

Johnuniq (talk) 02:24, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I think those changes are ready to deploy. Thanks for checking — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

I updated the main module. Repeating the test for Among Us mentioned above now gives 1.2MB instead of 17MB memory used (that comes from fixing Module:EditAtWikidata). Johnuniq (talk) 02:39, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Great job! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:18, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Request - remove identifier P949: National Library of Israel ID (NLI)

Please remove the obsolete identifier National Library of Israel ID (old) (P949) from Module:Authority control. There are no articles in Category:Articles with NLI identifiers -> all articles in en.wikipedia use the new identifier National Library of Israel J9U ID (P8189) now.

National Library of Israel ID (old) (P949) removed from Module:Authority control/sandbox Difference between revisions. — Luamssuk (talk) 23:38, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Now removed from live module — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:19, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Rationalise categories

Currently each identifier has a category called "Pages with XYZ identifiers", inside which are two categories: "Articles with XYZ identifiers" and "Articles with faulty XYZ identifiers". I propose:

Remove the categories of the form "Pages with XYZ identifiers". Now we are only tracking usage on articles so there are no other types of page to track.
Make "Articles with faulty XYZ identifiers" a subcategory of "Articles with XYZ identifiers", as this is logical.

This will reduce the number of categories needed for this template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:17, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Support. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 16:31, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

I've implemented #2. I'll wait few more days before starting on #1 — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:09, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Just to note this has now been completed — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:11, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Template:ACArt created

I have created Template:ACArt, a visual arts specific version of the general Template:Authority Control. I have implemented it at Jan van Eyck as a demonstration: it reduces the clutter of 36 or so AC links to a much more reasonable 15, keeping the arts-specific ones (like RKD or Balat) and the most useful general ones for enwiki (Worldcat, LoC, ...), but removing the less interesting ones (non-English ones simply repeating the biographic basics, or things like Musicbrainz). The selection of what to include and what to exclude may need refinement, this is done in Module:ACArt (a spin-off of Module:Authority control).

All you need to do is replace, at the bottom of an article, {{Authority control}} with {{ACArt}}, et voilà! Fram (talk) 10:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I have now replaced this template with a new version, not with its own module but as a wrapper with suppression of the unwanted links.[1]

Advantages: all improvements to the main template are automatically used in the ACArt template as well, no separate maintenance and module needed.
Disadvantages:
- In Preview, you get a long list of very ugly error messages caused by the link suppression, which are unwanted for this wrapper
- When a new ID is added to the main template, it will need to get suppressed at the ACArt template.

For now, this looks to me like the better solution compared to a separate template. If we continue to go this route, with more separate wrappers for separate groups, it may be useful to think of yet another solution, where you e.g. have again one template, with one "switch" parameter, like {{Template:Authority control|type:Art}}. That would again put all maintenance in one spot, but may make for a very heavy to process template.

Other solutions and improvements welcome of course! Fram (talk) 15:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Done — preview-warning removed for suppressed params. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:34, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Fram (talk) 13:46, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

RfC about the look of the template started

I've started Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#RfC: make Template:Authority control more reader-friendly. Fram (talk) 10:19, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

User:UBX/Authority control

This user uses the authority control template and the data it provides.

I created the userbox {{User:UBX/Authority control}} for self-identifying as an AC user. This could be helpful in future discussions as a way of finding & pinging interested parties who may not check their watchlist regularly. Tom.Reding (talk) 05:50, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

When and where to use?

Is there a relevant guideline considering when and where to place the Authority control template? I know it was added to biography articles following RfC support of Wikipedia:Authority control integration proposal, but the current information page doesn't say whether it is actually recommended to use the template on non-biographies, only that authority control data covers them. --Paul_012 (talk) 03:24, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm quite curious about this myself, AC feels like a lot of additional metadata to include on each page, and of dubious utility to most readers. Almost feels like something that should be a separate tab akin to the Talk page for each article. --MKV (talk) 16:06, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

I also wonder about this, it is being added to articles for no particular reason. It clutters up already cluttered article footers, and it seems that in most cases it doesn't add any value. ··gracefool 💬 09:51, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Unnecessary category?

Does anyone think that Category:Articles with multiple identifiers is a useful tracking category. Having multiple identifiers is the norm, and we have all the separate categories like Category:AC with 27 elements anyway — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:14, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: I've reworded the category description to make its purpose more clear. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:27, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Ah, that makes a lot more sense :) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Merge talk pages

I have merged Wikipedia talk:Authority control into this page so discussion is centralised (proposed on that page a few days ago without comment). That leaves a couple of archives: Wikipedia talk:Authority control/Archive 1 and Wikipedia talk:Authority control/Archive 2 which I am not sure what to do with. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:59, 21 March 2022 (UTC) ]]

Lua error for a QID in the draft namespace

This code had been working in the draft namespace until the last hour or so.

{{authority control|QID=Q110980377}}

Now I am see this error & backtrace:

Lua error: bad argument #1 to 'getEntityIdForTitle' (string expected, got nil).

Backtrace:

[C]: in function "error"

libraryUtil.lua:11: in function "checkType"

mw.wikibase.lua:144: ?

(tail call): ?

Module:Authority_control:1259: in function "chunk"

mw.lua:525: ?

[C]: ?

Any insights? Peaceray (talk) 00:14, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

This was caused by en error on a different module (Module:ResolveEntityId) which has now been reverted. Thanks for reporting — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:34, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Marina Militare

Proposing to add identifiers for Italian Navy Lighthouses and Beacons ID (P3863). Reliable and official source of information for lighthouses in Italy. Would like to move this identifier out of the infobox and into the AC template. Example below, labelled as "Italy".

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:46, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Request – add identifiers BNMM authority ID (P3788) for Argentina, and HelveticArchives ID (P1255) for Switzerland

Hello, I would like to request the addition of these two identifiers to the National Libraries section of the Authority control template. Both identifiers link to their respective national library's catalogues. Please advise, thank you. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 20:27, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Does anyone have an opinion on these identifiers? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:11, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

HelveticArchives ID (P1255) Oppose: The official Swiss national library 'SZ' VIAF component uses the 'GND' identifier of the German national library. That’s why there is no (and will be no) Swiss national library in authority control. I don’t know what P1255 is – but not the Swiss national library 'SZ' VIAF component. Also, P1255 is only used by 402 Wikidata items (see https://w.wiki/4xyb ). — Luamssuk (talk) 19:03, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

BNMM authority ID (P3788) Agree: it is the official 'ARBABN' VIAF component used by the Argentinian national library. — Luamssuk (talk) 19:03, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

If someone would like to sandbox the code for P3788 then I will deploy? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:44, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Added to sandbox under National library "Argentina". Test below.

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:01, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:34, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Link to PDF

Currently the identifier for USCG does not link anywhere. I would like to link it to the PDF of the catalogue, but unfortunately there are hundreds of other lighthouses described in that document so I would still need to include the identifier. Which of the following works best? Or is it best not to link to the PDF? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:27, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

USCG (1-21400) - CURRENT VERSION WITHOUT LINK
USCG (1-21400)
USCG: 1-21400
USCG (1-21400)

So basically you are not adding an actual identifier (now or in the future), you are just indicating that the USCG has an identifier which the reader will have to search for themselves? I would just remove it altogether in that case. Fram (talk) 07:32, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

When I say "identifier" I am talking about the unique number, i.e. 1-21400. What do you mean by identifier? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:25, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Ah, that looked like a pointer to a list of numbers (1 to 21400), and the pdg also doesn't have a "1-21400" listed, but it does have the ID "21400" listed. Rather confusing. Fram (talk) 11:55, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

That PDF is volume 1 of the light list, which is what the "1" stands for. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:02, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Unless there are any further comments I am veering towards style number 4 on the list above. Code on sandbox, example below — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:08, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:33, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Marine Traffic

Reliable source for lighthouses with unique identifiers. Propose adding MarineTraffic Lighthouse ID (P3601) to authority control. Example below.

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:29, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:34, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Error in template when using one of the VcBA ID formats in Wikidata

I just added an item to the Vatican Library VcBA ID in Wikidata using the form including an underscore because that is how it appeared in VIAF but the Authority control template gave me an error as it said that the entry was incorrect until I replaced the underscore by a slash (i.e. /). It is simple enough to change it to the required format but I wanted to let people know. Gusfriend (talk) 09:19, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested edit for the Dictionary of Irish Biography

This edit request to Module:Authority control has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change lines 282 and 283 to read:

--P6829's format regex: 0[01]\d{4}(\.[A-D])? (e.g. 001953)
   if not id:match( '^0[01]\d%d%d%d%-?[A-D])?$' ) then

The Dictionary of Irish Biography has a new website and URLs. Wikidata has updated the format, but it needs to be reflected here, as Authority control is now giving a "DIB id xxxxxx is not valid" error. See recent discussion in the 'Some updates' and 'format' sections of Property talk:P6829 on Wikidata. I think the format here could be correct, but I have zero experience with PCRE syntax so would appreciate another set of eyes. Thanks, gobonobo ⁺ ^c 00:59, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

You seem to have an extra close bracket ) and also what is the dash - for? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: It makes more sense when viewing the full entry. This is how it currently reads:

281 function p.dibLink( id, label )
282	--P6829's format regex: a\d{4}\d?(-[A-D])? (e.g. a1953)
283	if not id:match( '^a%d%d%d%d%d?%-?[A-D]?$' ) then
284		return false
285	end
286	return ''..(label or 'Ireland')..''..p.getCatForId( 'DIB' )
287 end

I believe only lines 282 and 283 need to change. Right now this is causing error messages on over 5000 articles. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 15:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Please note that Lua patterns are not PCREs. For example, the quoting character is % instead of \, and quantifiers are not allowed on capture groups. So the syntactically correct code (I just assumed that the PCRE in your comment is correct) is

function p.dibLink( id, label )
	--P6829's format regex: 0[01]\d{4}(\.[A-D])? (e.g. 001953)
	if not id:match( '^0[01]%d%d%d%d%.?[A-D]?$' ) then
		return false
	end
	return '[https://dib.cambridge.org/viewReadPage.do?articleId='..id..' '..(label or 'Ireland')..']'..p.getCatForId( 'DIB' )
end

—Tacsipacsi (talk) 22:00, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Done Thanks @Tacsipacsi: for the right pattern and code change. Galobtter (pingó mió) 22:10, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

@Tacsipacsi: Thank you so very much. It looks like line 286 also needs to be adjusted for the new urls. The formatter url we have is now:

https://doi.org/10.3318/dib.$1.v1

If you could take a look, I'm at a loss on how to include the ".v1" at the end. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 13:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

@Galobtter: Your changes cause the Lua error in Module:Authority_control at line 1059: attempt to concatenate local 'appearsAs' (a boolean value). Please bugfix. (To avoid major disruption and server load, any changes should be tested in the module's /sandbox or /testcases subpages, or in your own module sandbox. The tested changes can be added to this page in a single edit. Consider discussing changes on the talk page before implementing them.) — Luamssuk (talk) 16:31, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I think the example a1234 needs to be updated to be a valid format — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 05:39, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Line 1128 — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 05:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Fixed Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:52, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Links to redirects

Could anyone fix links to redirects? Eurohunter (talk) 11:11, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Do you mean the links to the identifiers? If not, please provide an example. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:43, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Request – add Portuguese National Library ID (P1005), CONOR.SI ID (P1280), and SNK ID (P9807) to National Libraries

Hello Martin, I would like to request the addition of the Portuguese National Library ID (P1005) for Portugal, the CONOR.SI ID (P1280) for Slovenia, and the SNK ID (P9807) for Slovakia. All three of these identifiers link to their respective library's catalogue, as showcased in this example of director Peter Jackson for Portugal and Slovenia; and of Czech writer Karel Havlíček Borovský for Slovakia. Thank you! Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 18:21, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

You don't need to convince me, you need to convince other editors that these would be valuable additions for the English Wikipedia. Does anyone have any comments on these identifiers? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:03, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

My apologies, Martin. I will wait for the community to voice their thoughts. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 14:25, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians, does anybody have any thoughts about these authority identifiers being added? Please do comment below, thank you. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 06:38, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I was asked to analyze this request. It seems reasonable to me based on the fact that other small localities like Catalan and Latvia are included in the existing criteria, as are various artistic databases some of which which are regional and others of which are country specific. If we can highlight significance of a segment of a national archives, it isn't logical to exclude an entire national archive, IMO. Certainly the countries Spinster300 is requesting to be added have a wealth of information in their national libraries and reference to their archival holdings might be of benefit to editors and researchers. SusunW (talk) 20:19, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

FYI: Two Authority control maintenance categories are now essentially empty

After a bit of effort, as of about 15 minutes ago Category:Pages using authority control with parameters all matching Wikidata is empty and Category:Pages using authority control with parameters different on Wikidata only has 2 entries (both of which are articles for 2 people which makes the Authority control a little complicated). Now that the numbers are low it should be fairly easy to keep them down. Gusfriend (talk) 13:21, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Great work. I would love to stop using the local parameters ... is it feasible? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:50, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

@Gusfriend: in case you missed my comment above. Would it be feasible, in your opinion, to now stop using local parameters in this template? In other words, editors would have to make their changes on the Wikidata item instead of updating the local parameters. This would greatly simplify the maintenance required on this template — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:34, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I admit to missing your earlier notice. My only concern is the situation where the Wikidata item hasn't been created yet. I work at AfC and sometimes when I approve articles there are items like Google Scholar, ORCID, MGP, etc. so it is kind of useful to use it as a placeholder until the Wikidata page has been created.

Having said that, with less than 550 pages with local parameters (over 300 of them redirects) I can see the number of pages with parameters being down to a handful by the end of the year and at that point you could change it so that the information isn't presented (just like Facebook, etc.) and the page appears in one of the categories. Then it becomes a manual process for those like me who can watch the categories and then import them into Wikidata.

Gusfriend (talk) 07:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

The more that I think about it the more that I like the idea of ignoring any use of the local parameters in the template. I was just reading H:PARAMETER and it says Parameters can be specified (and will do nothing) even if not represented in the template's code. which seems perfect. If you wanted to be amazing you could take advantage of Some templates call Module:Check for unknown parameters to warn the editor if a parameter is being used that is not accounted for in the template's code; this is mostly used for infoboxes and other templates with a large number of complicated parameters, where the presence of an unknown one is usually an unintentional error. which would be a bit of a pain from a maintenance point of view. Gusfriend (talk) 11:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Edit request for format regex and URL for National Library of Korea ID

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Current URL link and format regex for NLK ID (Wikidata P5034) in this template (Line from 651 to 658) does not reflect NLK IDs for subject headings. To solve this problem, I've changed URL link and format regex of NLK ID to LOD typed database in Wikidata. Yet I could not edit this template. Please anyone in charge check updating this template's URL link and format regex for NLK ID as current Wikidata P5034 I've edited. Thank you. - LinkedYes (talk) 04:10, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

National Library of Korea ID errors

The "Authority control" template on the articles Government and Economics both display errors which read "The NLK id KSH[...] is not valid", but the ids on WikiData link to the appropriate pages and, unless I've misread it, the documentation for the National Library of Korea ID appears to show that the ids are both valid and correctly formatted. Does anyone know what the problem is and how to fix it? Is the problem on Wikipedia's end or WikiData's? – Scyrme (talk) 21:00, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Please see message above from LinkedYes. I'll look at updating shortly — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:49, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

As a regular expression the new format is (KAB|KAC|KSH)([0-9]{4}|[0-9]{4}[a-zA-Z])[0-9]{4,6} — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:57, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

To clarify, this means that you intend to update the template to repair this error?

I assume this is a systematic issue that I can't fix; Category:Articles with faulty NLK identifiers is clogged with 251 errors, and it seems likely most are caused by this issue. – Scyrme (talk) 00:14, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, @Martin! I forgot to embed 'edit request' template here.

For @Scyrme, the issue here is not a systematic one between Wikipedia and Wikidata, yet rather a technical issue about how 'authority control' template (more precisely, the Module:Authority control that the authority control template is grounded) is representing NLK IDs entered in Wikidata. I think with little adjustment on module above I've mentioned, error messages on authority control templates will be cleared. - LinkedYes (talk) 01:54, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

That's what I meant by "systematic issue"; that the problem is with the template or something else in the chain, in this case the module, which is then systematically reflected on all these articles as error warnings.

I suspect a similar issue is the cause of the errors noted in the section below, since I don't see any error on WikiData's end. @MSGJ: I'd appreciate if you could also take a look at them when you get around the problem with the NLK ids. – Scyrme (talk) 01:24, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Please check the following are working now — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

It seems your proposals below are working so well! Thank you for your sincere help, @MSGJ! - LinkedYes (talk) 09:54, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Okay, great. I have deployed those changes — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:41, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § Change the look of the authority control module

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) § Change the look of the authority control module. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:11, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Discussion closed without much participation or consensus for change — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:02, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Template:Authority control (arts) - supressing ISO code ISNI

Please stop supressing ISNI. 77.191.176.0 (talk) 23:41, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

What does it add that e.g. Viaf doesn´t already have, and which is of interest to enough enwiki readers? Fram (talk) 08:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

@1 stopping the supression in case of existence of an ISNI in Wikidata may add the following "which Viaf doesn´t already have"

a link to en:ISNI
a link to information about the item at isni.org

@2 please define "of interest to enough enwiki readers". Otherwise it is impossible to answer.

@Tom.Reding and Pigsonthewing: you are the only other editors beside Fram that edited Template:Authority control (arts) more than once. Who decided to supress ISNI display and by doing so maybe remove it from pages where it existed for many years? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:00, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

A link to ISNI is not a good reason to have this, there is no reason that all biographies should have a link to Isni. A link to isni.org, yes, that´s why I asked what isni offered that e.g. viaf doesn´t. Isni offers isni isn´t really helpful. What information is there on Isni, e.g for Andy Warhol where you raised this issue, which is not available through the other authority links? Fram (talk) 14:22, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

You didn't ask for "good reason to have this", in doubt, read your own question again.
"there is no reason that all biographies should have a link to Isni" - no one suggested doing so in this section
"A link to isni.org, yes, that´s why I asked what isni offered" - you didn't asked that.
"Isni offers isni isn´t really helpful." - what do you talk about?
"What information is there on Isni, e.g for Andy Warhol where you raised this issue, which is not available through the other authority links?" - I didn't do so.

Would you mind stopping handing out new questions before answering those directed at you? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 19:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

No idea what your problem is but I don´t see this discussion becoming fruitful with your approach here. Fram (talk) 06:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

The first edit that I found which removed ISNIs was done 2021-02-18 by User:Fram having the edit summary "Removed ISNI, provides no information above what is available in the others" [2]. The correctness of the claim has not been demonstrated. Please revert this unilateral and deceptive content removal. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 10:09, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

You raised this at Andy Warhol. Can you indicate what info Isni offers for our readers of that article, which isn´t offered by the other links in the template already? Fram (talk) 14:33, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

No, I didn't. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 19:48, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

So the question about using this template and thereby losing the link to ISNI, at Talk:Andy Warhol, was not posted by you, despite coming from the same IP address in the same week? Please don´t play silly games. Fram (talk) 06:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Fram, please respect WP:NPA. 77.183.31.210 (talk) 11:57, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

As of 2022-08-29 there are 21474 items in Wikidata about humans that have ISNI but no VIAF https://w.wiki/5dY8 78.54.89.82 (talk) 10:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

It looks as if the vast majority of those are not about artists anyway, and many of the others won´t have an enwiki article. I noticed that at least some do have a Viaf, but it´s deprecated. Fram (talk) 14:28, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

How did you determine that "It looks as if the vast majority of those are not about artists anyway"?
"I noticed that at least some do have a Viaf, but it´s deprecated." - that means the viaf id stored there is not about the human in question, and misplaced. So there is not VIAF record

https://w.wiki/5dfS - a query limited to 10000 results to avoid query time out yields 10000 items having ISNI, sitelink to enwiki and not having VIAF. The first result is about Rebecca Black, a singer. 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:41, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Template:Authority control (arts) - missing documentation of which pages get this template instead of the general one

Can the decision process about when this template was added to an item about a human instead of the general one be added to documentation? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 09:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

As the title implies, it´s done when it´s about art or artists. Feel free to improve the documentation of course. Fram (talk) 14:30, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

"As the title implies, it´s done when it´s about art or artists." - how can one verify if it is correct what you claim? Are there only 16000 artists in enwiki and who decided that singers are not artists? 78.54.89.82 (talk) 20:45, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

It matches the Category:Artists, which is also only about visual artists and not about musicians. So nothing deceptive or weird about it, just internal consistency. Feel free to propose a rename of the category, and then this template can follow. Fram (talk) 06:44, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Once more you say something that is not true. Andy Warhol is in the category:Artists but also in Category:20th-century American male musicians. And he got the template replaced [3]. 77.183.31.210 (talk) 11:56, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

what is this module thing?

what is this module thing? i have not seen this before? mediawiki feature? something created just on wikipedia? thanks. limitless peace. Michael Ten (talk) 02:52, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Lua — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:39, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Authority control incorrectly (?) identifying errors

National Diet Library ID error

Cao Zhiyun reports "The NDL id a1100032495 is not valid" but the WikiData entry flags up no issues and the link works. Does anyone know what's causing this error? – Scyrme (talk) 00:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

If you know what the format of this identifier should be, I can try to update it here. It seems that 0?\d{8} is not correct now — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:26, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Apologies for the late response. It seems like 0?\d{8} is still correct for most identifiers, however some have 9 digits and others prefix the 9 digits with a1, which is the case with Cao Zhiyun's identifier. I wasn't able to find any examples exceeding 9 digits which were not prefixed with a1. I don't know if it's possible to search through a list of every id to look for exceptions.

Examples

Prefixed with "a1": a1 100 032 495; a1 100 028 952; a1 100 016 921
9 digits: 032 138 882; 001 360 828; 201 339 322
8 digits: 00 564 222; 00 451 456; 00 090 252

My knowledge of regex notation is limited, and I'm unsure how to restate this in the proper format. I think the correct regex would be something like (a1)?[0-9]?\d{8}. Does that seem correct to you? – Scyrme (talk) 00:28, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

For a list of format violations you could refer to this. I haven't got time to check your regex just now but will look back shortly — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:16, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

There's one, s00946354, eight digits prefixed with an "s", which my suggested regex wouldn't cover. Perhaps (a1|s)?[0-9]?\d{8} would work, covering "a1 or s, possibly followed by a digit between 0 and 9, all before 8 digits between 0 and 9". – Scyrme (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Testing looks good: — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:50, 10 November 2022 (UTC) {{authority control/sandbox|NDL=s00946354}} gives: {{authority control/sandbox|NDL=a1100032495}} gives: {{authority control/sandbox|NDL=00451456}} gives: {{authority control/sandbox|NDL=032138882}} gives:

DBLP identifier errors

The authority control templates on Paul Green (engineer) and Richard Harvey (scientist) flag up that their respective DBLP ids are not valid, yet WikiData doesn't flag up any errors and their respective links ([4], [5]) appear to demonstrate that the ids are correct. Does anyone know what the issue is and how to fix it? – Scyrme (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Paul Green and Richard Harvey are listed as exceptions to the rule on Wikidata, see wikidata:Property:P2456#P2302. I'm not sure if we could/should code up similar exceptions in Module:Authority control — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:30, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: I think a better approach would be to update the regular expression both here and on WikiData, rather than code up ad hoc exceptions. This would make the exceptions unnecessary and prevent future errors.

WikiData exceptions

Type 1: 12/4426jr; 05/5804r; 82/451mp; 00/2186Cabot; 89/4185-p
Type 2: j/1

The first type of exceptions actually follows the first format given by Wikidata, before the |, except it appends a string of non-numerical characters to the end. The second type follows the the second format, after the |, except that it has a number after the slash instead of a letter.

\d{2,3}/\d+(-\d+)?|[a-z]/[a-zA-Z][0-9A-Za-z]*(-\d+)? < Current expression given be Wikidata.

\d{2,3}\/\d+(-\d+)?[a-zA-Z-]*(-\d+)?|[a-z]\/[0-9a-zA-Z][0-9A-Za-z]*(-\d+)? < What I think is the new, correct expression.

\d{2,3}\/\d+(-\d+)?[a-zA-Z-]*(-\d+)?|[a-z]\/[0-9A-Za-z]*(-\d+)? < This simpler expression might also work, but I'm unsure.

What do you think? Do you agree? – Scyrme (talk) 00:56, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: If you are very busy, do you know of anyone else on Wikipedia I could ask for assistance with checking that my suggested regex is correct? Even if you are too busy to update the template any time soon, it could save some time to at least know that these are the correct expressions and I could update Wikidata in the meantime. – Scyrme (talk) 19:39, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply. I suggest you code these up in Module:Authority control/sandbox and test if they work correctly. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:59, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Sorry, I don't know how. I had a look at the sandbox code and tried figuring it out, but the code clearly doesn't use the notation I'm familiar with, and I don't know how to translate from one to the other. – Scyrme (talk) 17:14, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct. Lua uses a very slimmed down version of regular expressions. You can read more at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual#Patterns — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:25, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

\d{2,3} translates to %d%d%d? (two digits and possibly a third) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:30, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: I've made an attempt at translating and updated the sandbox.

I ran the test cases, which I assume uses the sandbox code, and 9 failed but they also failed after I undid my changes and appear to be entirely unrelated to DBLP and NDL. In-fact, I looked at the testcases page and I'm not sure that any of them actually check DBLP and NDL sequences.

Is there something else I should be doing to test my suggested changes? – Scyrme (talk) 12:50, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Still too busy? – Scyrme (talk) 12:30, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

{{authority control/sandbox|DBLP=12/4426jr}} gives: {{authority control/sandbox|DBLP=89/4185-p}} gives: Seems to work! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:39, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Great! I can update WikiData, but unfortunately I can't edit the actual module on Wikipedia myself because I don't have the permissions, so I can't paste the changes from the sandbox into the live module. When you have a spare moment, could you update the module? – Scyrme (talk) 19:53, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for updating the module! As of right now, Category:Articles with faulty authority control information has been cleared; all its subcategories are empty, including those for NDL and DBLP. – Scyrme (talk) 22:09, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Fantastic! Is there still any issue with s00946354 mentioned earlier? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:21, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

No issue. I used the amended regex on WikiData and its Lua equivalent in the sandbox so that id was accounted for (as demonstrated when you used it with the tests/examples above). WikiData no longer displays it as a format violation since I updated the format constraint. – Scyrme (talk) 14:01, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Does RERO need an update?

Dear Wikipedians, I have noticed that in the case of the RERO ID (obsolete) (P3065), the out-linking URL and the digits of the authority identifier might need an update. Might someone with better knowledge of this take a look? Take the example of Voltaire (which is an example in the RERO ID's Wikidata): the link his authority data connects to does not seem to work anymore, please see here. On RERO's website, the link now connects to a new "MEF ID" and different URL ending digits from the ones we have for him (02-A000173676); please see here. Would appreciate some insight on what can be done to connect to the updated RERO catalogue. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 11:24, 15 September 2022 (UTC).

If there is no way to convert to the new identifier then the current identifiers are next to useless. We may be able to use the Internet Archive to retrieve these pages. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:53, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Dear Martin, I think that is a good idea for the old identifiers. While for the new identifiers, might it help if we make a complementary authority identifier like we have done for the old and new Polish and Catalonian identifiers? Several latest entries into the RERO+ catalogue seem to be importing data from IdRef and GND and making only those aforementioned MEF IDs, if you could see these examples for Walter Henry Thompson and Lyssa Kay Adams. Of course these are only suggestions, I encourage someone with more expertise in library sciences/programming authority control on Wikipedia to look into this. Kind regards, Spinster300 (talk) 19:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC).

@Spinster300: I got a reply from Nicholas at RERO as follows

Thank you for contacting us and for your engagement in the Wikidata community!
We are progressively merging all of our authorities into the IdRef dataset, in collaboration with ABES. The "old" RERO authority file with identifiers in the form of "02-A000173676" is not maintained and not publicly accessible any more. Ideally, we should in the long term replace all RERO ID by IdRef ID: in our data as well as in Wikidata. The alignments are not finished yet, so a lot of our bibliographic data (in https://bib.rero.ch/ and in https://swisscovery.slsp.ch/) still has RERO IDs as references.
The identifier you proposed to put instead (https://bib.rero.ch/global/persons/2433193) is not persistent. We don't recommend to use it in Wikidata.
I hope this is clearer!

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:29, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Sowe do not have any method of obtaining the new IDs from the old ones. I agree that a new identifier will be needed for the new ones. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:40, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Authority control databases – Paul Verlaine
International	FAST ISNI VIAF
National	Norway Chile Spain France BnF data Argentina Catalonia Germany Italy Israel Finland Belgium United States Sweden Latvia Japan Czech Republic Australia Greece Korea Croatia Netherlands Poland Portugal Russia 2 Vatican
Academics	CiNii
Artists	Discography of American Historical Recordings KulturNav MusicBrainz RKD Artists
People	Deutsche Biographie Trove
Other	SNAC IdRef