Template:Did you know nominations/Zoé Clauzure
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 10:56, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
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Zoé Clauzure, Cœur (song)
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- ... that Zoé Clauzure won the 2023 Junior Eurovision with her song "Cœur", giving France their second consecutive win in the contest?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gale–Shapley algorithm, Template:Did you know nominations/Charles J. Turck
- Comment: I will try and come with a better hook.
Created by Moscow Connection (talk). Self-nominated at 23:00, 1 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Zoé Clauzure; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
- @Moscow Connection: A QPQ is still needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:56, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry. I'm back, and I will do it now. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:35, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
- A QPQ is done. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Moscow Connection, since this is a double nomination, you need to supply two QPQ reviews, one for each article nominated. Please supply a second nomination as soon as possible. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- Okay. (I'll do it tomorrow. I've looked through the nominations, but couldn't find anything interesting.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 17:19, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- I've reviewed one more nomination. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:55, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Full review needed now that QPQs have been provided. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2024 (UTC)- At 1382 bytes, Cœur (song) is too short for the DYK requirement. Moscow Connection, would you prefer to put the nomination on hold until it's expanded or to withdraw it and go with just the Clauzure article? --Paul_012 (talk) 15:15, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note that the IPA template in the lede causes unexpected (incorrect) results from DYK check in the form of about 200 extra characters to its count; the "Cœur" article is indeed short of the 1500 prose characters required and will need to be expanded further. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- OK, I'll expand it tomorrow. --Moscow Connection (talk) 03:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note that the IPA template in the lede causes unexpected (incorrect) results from DYK check in the form of about 200 extra characters to its count; the "Cœur" article is indeed short of the 1500 prose characters required and will need to be expanded further. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
While we're waiting, I'll go ahead and review Zoé Clauzure, which can run alone if the expansion isn't forthcoming. The nomination was a few hours late, though it was New Year's, so some leeway can of course be given. Article prose is above minimum length, but there are some referencing issues. There are a few bare URLs, including a citation to RIA Novosti, which, reliability issues aside, isn't optimal in an English Wikipedia article about a French singer. And what is the purpose of the refn template added in this edit? Hook is within length and verified to the Eurovision press release, though it doesn't capture interest. Maybe consider something that touches on the song's subject of bullying? --Paul_012 (talk) 18:25, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- The song article is over 1650 characters now if I counted correctly. (I'm not happy with it and I'm going to work on it some more. But I'm probably done for today and will return tomorrow.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 08:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- As it stands, some 540 bytes of text are shared between the two articles. I could subtract it off the longer article, which would leave both just barely above the 1,500 mark, but that's too close for comfort in my view. The lyrics quote is presented without context or analysis and doesn't quite satisfy WP:NFC, so I'm inclined to discount its length in addition to the policy issue. Unless you have time for significant work on the song article, I'd suggest going with the Zoé Clauzure article alone, and focus on addressing the referencing issues raised above. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
- I will try to expand the article in the next couple of days. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:46, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
- Paul_012, I thought I'd have a look and see if we could push this through but really, I saw only problems. I took care of a couple of the bare URLs (shouldn't have been in there in the first place, and that's two months ago), removed a bunch of YouTube links, and tried to expand the biography, but there simply isn't much more. I looked for more sources, more recent ones, but didn't find them, and I am not sure that the article on the song can be expanded any more. If the biography is long enough, then go with that alone, I think. Drmies (talk) 18:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, Drmies, for the improvements. I did a bit more clean-up. The referencing could still be better, as it currently relies a lot on primary sources (her website, the competitions' press releases), but as it stands there's nothing contentious or potentially controversial, so I don't see any BLP issues. Zoé Clauzure is now good enough to run alone, but it still needs a better hook. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:53, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Drmies: Could you look at "Cœur (song)" now? Maybe copy-edit it even, especially the section titled "Description"? I've expanded the article a bit yesterday. --Moscow Connection (talk) 21:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Moscow Connection, I don't know, and I'm not going to pull the trigger on this, but there just isn't that much material on the song and pulling everything in makes it look a bit fluff. The colors red and white are in the video? Well... And I saw you put that "no direct reference to school" back in, with a source that doesn't seem very strong to me--"no direct reference to school bullying" is better, but I don't know if the source says that, and it would be the question of why the song should be about school bullying if it makes no direct reference to it. I'll let Paul_012 decide on this, ok? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:28, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Drmies: Yes, I pulled everything I could find.
I've added the word "bullying". The source says: "При этом в тексте песни нет прямых указаний на школьную проблематику" ([With all that said / But] the song's lyrics do not contain direct references to [any] school issues."
Okay, just proceed without the song. Sorry for the inconvenience. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Drmies: Yes, I pulled everything I could find.
- Moscow Connection, I don't know, and I'm not going to pull the trigger on this, but there just isn't that much material on the song and pulling everything in makes it look a bit fluff. The colors red and white are in the video? Well... And I saw you put that "no direct reference to school" back in, with a source that doesn't seem very strong to me--"no direct reference to school bullying" is better, but I don't know if the source says that, and it would be the question of why the song should be about school bullying if it makes no direct reference to it. I'll let Paul_012 decide on this, ok? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:28, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, Drmies, for the improvements. I did a bit more clean-up. The referencing could still be better, as it currently relies a lot on primary sources (her website, the competitions' press releases), but as it stands there's nothing contentious or potentially controversial, so I don't see any BLP issues. Zoé Clauzure is now good enough to run alone, but it
- Paul_012, I thought I'd have a look and see if we could push this through but really, I saw only problems. I took care of a couple of the bare URLs (shouldn't have been in there in the first place, and that's two months ago), removed a bunch of YouTube links, and tried to expand the biography, but there simply isn't much more. I looked for more sources, more recent ones, but didn't find them, and I am not sure that the article on the song can be expanded any more. If the biography is long enough, then go with that alone, I think. Drmies (talk) 18:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- I will try to expand the article in the next couple of days. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:46, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
- As it stands, some 540 bytes of text are shared between the two articles. I could subtract it off the longer article, which would leave both just barely above the 1,500 mark, but that's too close for comfort in my view. The lyrics quote is presented without context or analysis and doesn't quite satisfy WP:NFC, so I'm inclined to discount its length in addition to the policy issue. Unless you have time for significant work on the song article, I'd suggest going with the Zoé Clauzure article alone, and focus on addressing the referencing issues raised above. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
- The song article is over 1650 characters now if I counted correctly. (I'm not happy with it and I'm going to work on it some more. But I'm probably done for today and will return tomorrow.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 08:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- This is already the oldest nomination that is still active, so my suggestion is if the song article is too problematic, it would be better to just debold it and not include it in the nomination. At least it would be easier to get this across the finish line. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'd echo Narutolovehinata5's suggestions. While improved, I'm still not quite comfortable with promoting the song article. As a reader I feel it still needs further development with information directly about the song itself, but maybe source coverage for that isn't yet available. (As it stands, Wiwibloggs is about the only source that talks about the lyrics in detail.) I'd repeat my above suggestion: Let's just stick with the Zoé Clauzure article for the bolded item; the song article can still be linked normally. A better hook is still needed. Something about her winning song being about school bullying could work. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, proceed with the Zoé Clauzure article as the only bolded item.
I've already wasted too much of everybody's time with this nomination. Sorry for the inconvenience. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)- It's okay. Right now it just needs an alt hook, if you could perhaps compose one. I made a suggestion above. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:53, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Moscow Connection, please propose a new hook, as requested by Paul 012. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 02:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- It's okay. Right now it just needs an alt hook, if you could perhaps compose one. I made a suggestion above. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:53, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, proceed with the Zoé Clauzure article as the only bolded item.
- I'd echo Narutolovehinata5's suggestions. While improved, I'm still not quite comfortable with promoting the song article. As a reader I feel it still needs further development with information directly about the song itself, but maybe source coverage for that isn't yet available. (As it stands, Wiwibloggs is about the only source that talks about the lyrics in detail.) I'd repeat my above suggestion: Let's just stick with the Zoé Clauzure article for the bolded item; the song article can still be linked normally. A better hook is still needed. Something about her winning song being about school bullying could work. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1 ... that Zoé Clauzure won the 2023 Junior Eurovision with a song about school bullying?
- @Paul 012, Moscow Connection, and BlueMoonset: How does this sound? I removed the link to Eurovision here to avoid it becoming a sea of blue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:31, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
