Template:Did you know nominations/St. Ouen F.C.

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Round symbols for illustrating comments about the DYK nomination The following is an archived discussion of St. Ouen F.C.'s DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you knowDYK comment symbol (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Carabinieri (talk) 19:56, 23 February 2013 (UTC).

St. Ouen F.C.[edit]

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5x expanded by The C of E (talk). Self nom at 10:17, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

The article prose has definitely been expanded 5x. The hook on the other hand is referenced to only a picture and a caption, I know this will probably do but is there maybe a newspaper article or anything to back it up aswell? Id also leave the F.C in Celtic in the hook as it makes it clearer its a soccer team. Other than that it seems grand. ShaneMc2010 13:40, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
I've added the archive ref to follow the paper and changed the hook to clarify it is about football. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 14:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Everything seems fine to me at least! (bear in mind this is my first review) ShaneMc2010 15:24, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

  • The article is not long enough: while DYKcheck returns 1502 characters, barely over the minimum, it is mistakenly including the external link (which should be bulleted) of 25 characters, putting the actual total at 1477. Some of the article seems like padding—that St. Ouen plays at St. Ouen (surely not worth mentioning unless their home field were elsewhere)—and overall the article seems a jumble of disconnected facts, without a sense of chronology or development. Additional information might help pull this together. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:58, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
  • When I was asking for information about the club, I have to confess I wasn't looking for a cricket club that was split off from the football club before the earliest information you have about the football club save its founding. Something in the 1972-2012 range would have been more to the point. I also have a problem with a "Current teams" section that has information that isn't any more current than 2005 (except a 2008 article referencing 2007 play which is six years old), and I don't see anything in FN4 (the Collinson article) that indicates that he was either first-ever team captain or the first-team captain of St. Ouen (it isn't clear to this reader which you meant, but neither seems to be supported). The article has a bit more chronology (though the added cricket bit takes away from it again), and is still missing continuity. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:26, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
  • I've removed the team list and renamed the current teams section. The article doesn't claim that he was captain of either, it says that he was the coach and the cricket reference was used to support the cricket claim. Just to clarify, so you're looking for info from after the Celtic game to the present? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm concerned about the interpretation of material from the sources. Now the Collinson section has the phrase "under the supervision of Old Victorians' first team coach Richard Collinson", but the source says nothing about him being first-ever coach for OV, and further says he started there in 1977. There's nothing from that source about when he moved on to St. Ouen (just that he did, so he presumably wasn't with the Old Victorians any more), so it could easily have been 1980 or later, not the 1970s at all. The source about the new pitch seems to have been misinterpreted: it doesn't say anything about why the planning officer had originally refused the application, just that the panel had overruled the decision because of perceived community benefits of creating the pitch, which is very different from what is in the article. I also wonder what league St. Ouen plays in. The new paragraph talks about winning Division Two, being promoted, then demoted the next year, then promoted the year after. Nowhere does it say what league this is, what division they currently play in, etc. It would also help if sources were added for the various Honours. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
  • I think you're misreading it. No-where in the article does it claim that Collinson was the first ever coach nor that he left OV to move to St. Ouen, all it says is that he set up the first school of excellence in JErsey in the 1970's. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:05, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
  • I could well be misreading it: it's unclear from context whether he's their first team coach or their first-team coach: "During the 1970's, under the supervision of Old Victorians' first team coach Richard Collinson, St. Ouen set up Jersey's first football school of excellence." However, it's more than that. My interpretation of the sentence as written is that Collinson was the OV coach when he supervised St. Ouen in setting up the school of excellence, and that this happened in the 1970s. I don't see what the relevance of OV is here, nor that given that Collinson article source you can reliably state that the school of excellence was set up in the 1970s. Collinson started with OV after he arrived on Jersey in 1977—the article does not say which team he coached, or that he only coached one of them—then went to First Tower United for an unspecified period of time (long enough to win a bunch of cups) and then to coach St. Ouen. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Fine, I've removed the OV and 70's mention so now the article just says that he helped set the school up. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:17, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
  • I gave the school a bit of temporal context, which I think was needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:45, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Collinson issues have been settled. According to DYKcheck, the article has 2223 prose characters, and is a proper 5x expansion. Hook fact is in the article and supported by inline sources. Perhaps the hook's "with" could be replaced by a comma and something like "aided by" or "and were aided by", so it's clear the guest players were teamed with St. Ouen rather than helping Celtic? BlueMoonset (talk) 04:45, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
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